Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[Alive]

10 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Do you see any connection to Melchzedek, Like the son of God? And (the genealogy of) Mary? 

I am not sure what you mean, Anne, but what I am talking about is very simply a matter of 'kind' which God established as a type. The most important typology in scripture. A man and a woman coming together and bearing new life of the same kind. Eve was the same, but different from Adam and yet when they come together in 'scriptural marriage' they become one--just as they were before God took Eve from Adam. This 'oneness' is a type of Christ and His Church--bringing many sons to Glory...a family.

[Anne2]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

How could that be? 

I would like to know. 

The second Adam, The seed of the woman, Mother of all the living.

The apostolic Church a kingdom of priests, Having given them life, and more abundantly.

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

26  And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
 

[NConly]

2 hours ago, NConly said:

4 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes!  This is a key, God given purpose of the body of Christ - to allow God, through us, to crush Satan under our feet! "He shall bruise your head and he shall bruise your heel." (Gen 3:15)

that verse needs a little work I think

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3: 15

In the first half of the verse God is speaking to the serpent whom he cursed and made to crawl on the ground and God describes what the womans seed will do the the now snake (bruise the head)

and God describes what the serpent ( now Snake) will do to the womans seed (bruise the heel)

two different actions from two different being toward each other

you quote last half of the verse. imo it is not correct

 you have the "he" used to many times

 you have the word "your" used to many times

"He shall bruise your head and he shall bruise your heel." (Gen 3:15)

[Anne2]

17 minutes ago, Alive said:

I am not sure what you mean, Anne, but what I am talking about is very simply a matter of 'kind' which God established as a type. The most important typology in scripture. A man and a woman coming together and bearing new life of the same kind. Eve was the same, but different from Adam and yet when they come together in 'scriptural marriage' they become one--just as they were before God took Eve from Adam. This 'oneness' is a type of Christ and His Church--bringing many sons to Glory...a family.

I am sorry, how you are reading my words. They are different, but just as simple.

Type, priests. 

Kind, Sons of God vs sons of men

Eve the mother of all the living. the seed of the woman. The second Adam

But if you don't agree, that's fine but it isn't anymore complicated. Just different is all.

But then again "ontology" has been something I have a hard time grasping. I do not really understand it's meaning. LOL, for me that's difficult. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Anne2

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

I am sorry, how you are reading my words. They are different, but just as simple.

Type, priests. 

Kind, Eve the mother of all the living. the seed of the woman. The second Adam

But if you don't agree, that's fine but it isn't anymore complicated. Just different is all.

But then again "ontology" has been something I have a hard time grasping. I do not really understand it's meaning. LOL, for me that's difficult. 

OK--I think I see what you were getting at. I do think Melchzedek is a type of Christ and in that sense, sure.

Ontology is a compound word from the Greek that means a logical look at being or that which exists.

In this case, we are looking at the nature of a being--a human and very importantly, what are the characteristics of that being and what force animates him.

So--after the fall--Adam's nature became death and darkness. In Christ we were changed into having a 'nature' of Light and Life. This was God's Eternal Purpose that Paul discussed in Ephesians.

In Christ and because of Christ in us, God get's what He wanted. And so the story goes. What Adam did not partake of in the Garden, we who are in Christ have partaken. This is what Jesus meant when He spoke of eating His flesh--the Tree of Life. This makes an ontological switcheroo.

[Vine Abider]

21 minutes ago, NConly said:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3: 15

In the first half of the verse God is speaking to the serpent whom he cursed and made to crawl on the ground and God describes what the womans seed will do the the now snake (bruise the head)

and God describes what the serpent ( now Snake) will do to the womans seed (bruise the heel)

two different actions from two different being toward each other

you quote last half of the verse. imo it is not correct

 you have the "he" used to many times

 you have the word "your" used to many times

"He shall bruise your head and he shall bruise your heel." (Gen 3:15)

OIC - yes, the second "he" should be "you."

[JimmyB]

On 6/7/2023 at 3:32 AM, AdHoc said:

@JimmyB @Vine Abider

I have followed the exchange with interest. I think the dilemma has merit. How did Eve succumb to temptation if she did not have the sin-nature? But equally, if we believe that God made Adam (and Eve who was IN Adam) with a sin nature, we attribute sin to God (perish the thought). The answer lies, I believe, in the offerings.

You might have noticed that until the Law of Moses was given, the prevailing offering is the burnt offering - not the sin offering. There are five main offerings and their order is crucial. (i) Burnt Offering, (ii) Meal Offering, (iii) Peace offering, (iv) Sin Offering and (v) Trespass Offering. I've no doubt that if the order were left to us, we would reverse them. Our experience is that we sin (or trespass) because we have the "sin-nature" and this destroys our peace with God. the result of these three is because we have a fallen humanity and this fallen humanity is is not fully for God.

But for God the problem lies in reverse. And here we get an inkling of Eve's problem BEFORE the fall. She was not fully for God. No sin had yet been committed, but Eve looked at the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and desired it more than God. If you read through the whole Bible you will see that the three things that tempted Eve are LEGITIMATE things. To eat when hungry is legitimate. To desire a beautiful thing is legitimate (see Song of Songs). To be made wise is suggested by God Himself. The question though is, WHAT IS MY SOURCE?

Shall I be beholden to Jehovah, or shall I acquire these things from another source? This is what faced our Lord Jesus in the wilderness. But I Lord refused them at their SOURCE. All three items of the temptation would Jesus later acquire, but at the hand of His FATHER. Eve's decision was not based on a sin-nature any more than our Lord's temptation. Both possessed a sinless nature. But our Lord Jesus, hungry, unrecognized for Who he was, and faced with an horrendous road to gain the kingdoms of this world, said in His heart that he would wait for the Father to give them, whereas Eve did not care to put the Father's interests first.

Jesus was fully for the Father. He is the Burnt Offering. Eve was fully for Eve. And so the problem of the sin-nature is not not traced back to a sin-nature. It is traced back to man's legitimate desires GAINED FROM A SOURCE OTHER THAN GOD. Thus, we have, besides the temptation of Eve and Christ, the admonition that if we love the world (and all that is in it), the love of God cannot be in us. Notice the grammar in 1st John 2;

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

It does not say that God does not love him. It says that he does not love the Father. Satan's job was to convince Eve that God was withholding legitimate things. This he accomplished with Eve, but not with our Lord Jesus.

So how do you explain this: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."?  We are not to love only certain aspects of "the world"-- the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, the pride in riches-- not "all that's in it".  But we are to love our neighbor as ourself (among other things).

1 John 4:8, "Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

OK--I think I see what you were getting at. I do think Melchzedek is a type of Christ and in that sense, sure.

Ontology is a compound word from the Greek that means a logical look at being or that which exists.

In this case, we are looking at the nature of a being--a human and very importantly, what are the characteristics of that being and what force animates him.

So--after the fall--Adam's nature became death and darkness. In Christ we were changed into having a 'nature' of Light and Life. This was God's Eternal Purpose that Paul discussed in Ephesians.

In Christ and because of Christ in us, God get's what He wanted. And so the story goes. What Adam did not partake of in the Garden, we who are in Christ have partaken. This is what Jesus meant when He spoke of eating His flesh--the Tree of Life. This makes an ontological switcheroo.

Thank you alive :-). I editted my post and yours did not include it. I think I see where I could maybe have spoken more coherently to "ontology". I did add Son's of God vs sons of men. What I was thinking of was here..

Ge 6:2  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
 

I think (not sure) that judaism has a form of (0ntology) in who these are. They speak of these as being a different class of men, than the others. They also of course speak of them being angels as well.

But as I was typing this, looking at that particular verse it brought to mind this........

1 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.
2  For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.
3  And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle, and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down astonied.
 

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, JimmyB said:

So how do you explain this: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."?  We are not to love only certain aspects of "the world"-- the desire of the flesh, the desire of the eyes, the pride in riches-- not "all that's in it".  But we are to love our neighbor as ourself (among other things).

1 John 4:8, "Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

The word "world" in the Greek is "kosmos". It's literal meaning is "the adornment" or "the orderly arrangement of things". It can mean this earth, it can mean the universe and it could also mean the political setup in a given country. It pertains to any thing that has an "arrangement of things".

We are not to love the present arrangement of things on earth because the source is "the prince of this world". In Luke 4 our Lord was tempted to receive the arrangement of things at Satan's hand. He refused. But He will take it by force at Armageddon. Then the "arrangement of things" will change.

The heavens and the earth, made by God to be run a certain way, are laboring under Satan's system. God will not always tolerate this, so a day is coming when God will defeat, subdue and end the present government, and install a totally new government based on His morality. The curses on the earth will be lifted and the earth will once again bring forth its strength. This can only be done legally by the blood of Christ speaking "better things than that of Abel's" (Heb.12:24). Abel's blood called for curses. Christ is cursed on the tree and Substitutes Abel's blood, thus allowing God to lift the curses. It's called the "regeneration" of the earth in Matthew 19:28.

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Do you see any connection to Melchzedek, Like the son of God? And (the genealogy of) Mary? 

Nothing connects Jesus to Melchzedek.

Nothing but there is something Melchzedek did that it can remind us of what Jesus did...and he intended doing from the very beginning. 

This is what Melchzedek a priest of God did. (For those who do not know Melhisedeck worship the same God as Abraham). Melchzedek was a real person and he was a King over his Kingdom ( at that time each big city with their surounding area was a Kingdom.)

The Kingdom of Melchzedek was not too far from where Abraham had been stationing in the land of the Hitites or close by.

Abraham was also a Priest of God and he was also a Leader and he had his own people, Abraham was a leader the way the other Kings of that time were...Abraham was not under the comandments of anyone else and he had his own army and he commanded his own srmy.

He was also a warrior. 

He fought against the other Kings who took Lot and the people of Sodom as their slaves after they conquer them in a battle. 

Abraham had confidarates. And one of them was the King of the Hittites and the King of Shalem a City close by whose King was Melchzedek..

Abraham and Melchzedek were contemporaries. And were also confidarates. For that reason they must have met a few times and discussed the conditions and the details of their alliance. 

Why in the Psalms centuries later on the prophetic about someone to come it said about him "that you are a Priest forever in the order of Melhisedec".

These words were spoken to people who were under the Aaronic Preisthood and they knew the duties of Aaronic Priesthood which were written in the book of Deuteronomy and who were discharge their duties in the Temple...