Can Man Effect God's Timing for the End of this Age?

[Vine Abider]

We've all contemplated when this might occur, and of course scripture says no man knows the exact time (we may know seasons) and not even the Son knows, but only the Father (Mark 13:32).  Many of us like to put forth theories as to this timing and the how or why this will then occur - my pet notion has been according to 2 Peter 3:9 which says, "He is not slack concerning His promises, as some count slackness, but is long-suffering, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." To me, this is saying the timing is linked to human salvation.  In any case, His timing for the Son's return will be perfect in multifarious ways, including saving as many as can be. While I believe this aspect of the timing is true, I'm starting to see another factor in the Father's timing, which is related to the authority and dominion given to us, Christ's church.

When Christ returns, His kingdom government and reign will be brought in fully, and there are many promises regarding His followers ruling and reigning with Him.  However, I suspect much of the church has seen its mission here to be primarily about witnessing and the salvation of souls.  To be sure, the salvation of souls  is certainly very important and a big part of it, and as many as possible should be "transferred out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of the Son of His love." (Col 1:13)  But recently I've been seeing more clearly another aspect of our mission here, which I'm starting to think might be the primary mission of His church.  That is, our charge and mission here to have dominion over our enemy and the forces of darkness. Ultimately, overcoming ones will be responsible for seeing Satan cast out of heaven, as described in Revelation chapter 12 ("they overcame him . . ."), and this is the beginning of the end for our adversary and constant accuser.  Through Christ, man will retake the authority and dominion that was taken from us by the action of the serpent in Genesis 3.

God gave and delegated the earth to us (Psalm 115:16), and in Christ the authority He won (Matt 28:18) has been given back to us (Luke 10:19, Eph 1:22 & 1 Cor 3:22). Through His indwelling Spirit, we are His living body on the earth . . . His "boots on the ground" so to speak --> as this wonderful verse in Romans 16:20 says, "Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly."

Here's a basketball analogy (since it's now the NBA finals) to illustrate where I'm going with this. Let's say you are a basketball team and you work hard on dribbling the ball, passing and making baskets well.  As a team, you get to the point you are pretty good with all this, but then it comes time to play the game with another team.  You get out there and dribble really well. You pass the ball to one another with great coordination and precision.  And you make some really good baskets.  However, in the end you lose the game.  What was the problem?  While you did the various activities of the game well enough, you forgot the main thing was to beat the other team!  All those other things you did during the game were fine and were certainly needed, but the ultimate mission and goal was to win!

The church these days may be doing many good things, but do we ever really wonder what God's desire is?  There is a rebellious enemy running causing all kinds of troubles. (BTW: I'm not saying we should focus on the enemy - he's already been defeated by the Lord Jesus Christ and our victory is a reality in Him, Who should be our focus!) But I'm getting a glimpse these days that God wants to wrap up this age and fully manifest His kingdom on the earth.  However, He's set the "game" up in a certain way --> He has delegated this earth to us, therefore He won't do it apart from us.

Therefore I'm wondering, is God waiting on the church to effectively exercise its given authority, in order to bring this age to a close?  (To clarify: if this is to happen, it will certainly not be of our own energy and doing, but rather Christ living in and through us!)

In light of what I've outlined above, I'm considering what this verse means:

"Looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness." 2 Peter 3:12-13

So what do you think - how much of bringing this age to a close is contingent on the body of Christ . . . can we hasten the day, and if so, how?

[FJK]

My personal belief is yes, because in the tare laden crop the wheat is still growing along with the tares and until there in no more wheat to be saved there is no harvesting to be done.

But that's just the way I think, maybe not even slightly close to the way God intends things.

[warrior12]

When Sodom and Gomorrah was about to be destroyed, there was a dialogue between Abraham and God messengers, so we know from the past there was some kind of plea taking place.

Today, we only have prophecy that must be fulfilled and the signs that precede them .   The actual grace and mercies of God timing, I believe we really cannot know, as it is to his own will and execution.   

[Vine Abider]

9 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

When Sodom and Gomorrah was about to be destroyed, there was a dialogue between Abraham and God messengers, so we know from the past there was some kind of plea taking place.

Today, we only have prophecy that must be fulfilled and the signs that precede them .   The actual grace and mercies of God timing, I believe we really cannot know, as it is to his own will and execution.   

Yes, but you bring up an excellent point and that is that God listens to righteous men!  There is a real principle here - do you see that?

[warrior12]

5 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes, but you bring up an excellent point and that is that God listens to righteous men!  There is a real principle here - do you see that?

That is true.  There is also a time when the door of the ark must be closed, even after all the preaching, and who knows when that time is to be in this age of prophecy and revelations of the New Testament .

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, warrior12 said:

That is true.  There is also a time when the door of the ark must be closed, even after all the preaching, and who knows when that time is to be in this age of prophecy and revelations of the New Testament .

Yes again!  It often seems like there is a duality - God's timing and man's cooperation with what He's doing.

[Neighbor]

15 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

He has delegated this earth to us, therefore He won't do it apart from us.

What first comes to mind is: "And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, rebuke your disciples.'  He answered, 'I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out' ”.

I do not think God is dependent upon man at all. He is omnipotent and sovereign. Man needs God, God the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Mankind will experience what  it is to be without the Holy Spirit's  restraining of  much evil on earth. All is to happen at the time known only to God the Father. He has foreknown, He has predestined it to be so. That is my own impression of how it is  and will be. Is it possibly influenced by man's responses to God's reveals and warnings? Perhaps, but then I do think He already has it fully covered regardless of the wiggling of mankind. Foreknown and predestined.

[FreeGrace]

16 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

We've all contemplated when this might occur, and of course scripture says no man knows the exact time (we may know seasons) and not even the Son knows, but only the Father (Mark 13:32).  Many of us like to put forth theories as to this timing and the how or why this will then occur - my pet notion has been according to 2 Peter 3:9 which says, "He is not slack concerning His promises, as some count slackness, but is long-suffering, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." To me, this is saying the timing is linked to human salvation.  In any case, His timing for the Son's return will be perfect in multifarious ways, including saving as many as can be. While I believe this aspect of the timing is true, I'm starting to see another factor in the Father's timing, which is related to the authority and dominion given to us, Christ's church.

When Christ returns, His kingdom government and reign will be brought in fully, and there are many promises regarding His followers ruling and reigning with Him.  However, I suspect much of the church has seen its mission here to be primarily about witnessing and the salvation of souls.  To be sure, the salvation of souls  is certainly very important and a big part of it, and as many as possible should be "transferred out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of the Son of His love." (Col 1:13)  But recently I've been seeing more clearly another aspect of our mission here, which I'm starting to think might be the primary mission of His church.  That is, our charge and mission here to have dominion over our enemy and the forces of darkness. Ultimately, overcoming ones will be responsible for seeing Satan cast out of heaven, as described in Revelation chapter 12 ("they overcame him . . ."), and this is the beginning of the end for our adversary and constant accuser.  Through Christ, man will retake the authority and dominion that was taken from us by the action of the serpent in Genesis 3.

God gave and delegated the earth to us (Psalm 115:16), and in Christ the authority He won (Matt 28:18) has been given back to us (Luke 10:19, Eph 1:22 & 1 Cor 3:22). Through His indwelling Spirit, we are His living body on the earth . . . His "boots on the ground" so to speak --> as this wonderful verse in Romans 16:20 says, "Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly."

Here's a basketball analogy (since it's now the NBA finals) to illustrate where I'm going with this. Let's say you are a basketball team and you work hard on dribbling the ball, passing and making baskets well.  As a team, you get to the point you are pretty good with all this, but then it comes time to play the game with another team.  You get out there and dribble really well. You pass the ball to one another with great coordination and precision.  And you make some really good baskets.  However, in the end you lose the game.  What was the problem?  While you did the various activities of the game well enough, you forgot the main thing was to beat the other team!  All those other things you did during the game were fine and were certainly needed, but the ultimate mission and goal was to win!

The church these days may be doing many good things, but do we ever really wonder what God's desire is?  There is a rebellious enemy running causing all kinds of troubles. (BTW: I'm not saying we should focus on the enemy - he's already been defeated by the Lord Jesus Christ and our victory is a reality in Him, Who should be our focus!) But I'm getting a glimpse these days that God wants to wrap up this age and fully manifest His kingdom on the earth.  However, He's set the "game" up in a certain way --> He has delegated this earth to us, therefore He won't do it apart from us.

Therefore I'm wondering, is God waiting on the church to effectively exercise its given authority, in order to bring this age to a close?  (To clarify: if this is to happen, it will certainly not be of our own energy and doing, but rather Christ living in and through us!)

In light of what I've outlined above, I'm considering what this verse means:

"Looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness." 2 Peter 3:12-13

So what do you think - how much of bringing this age to a close is contingent on the body of Christ . . . can we hasten the day, and if so, how?

Interesting question!  I go to the Word for guidance.  

Rev 9:15 - And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.

This is about the 5th trumpet judgment during the Tribulation.  John wrote this about 2,000 years ago.  It seems real clear that John was identifying a specific time of day on a specific date for this to occur.

Therefore, the the time of the Tribulation has been set.  

[Desopixi Seilynam]

And this good news of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations,
and then shall the end come.  Matthew 24:14

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

What first comes to mind is: "And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, rebuke your disciples.'  He answered, 'I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out' ”.

I do not think God is dependent upon man at all. He is omnipotent and sovereign. Man needs God, God the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Mankind will experience what  it is to be without the Holy Spirit's  restraining of  much evil on earth. All is to happen at the time known only to God the Father. He has foreknown, He has predestined it to be so. That is my own impression of how it is  and will be. Is it possibly influenced by man's responses to God's reveals and warnings? Perhaps, but then I do think He already has it fully covered regardless of the wiggling of mankind. Foreknown and predestined.

 

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Interesting question!  I go to the Word for guidance.  

Rev 9:15 - And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.

This is about the 5th trumpet judgment during the Tribulation.  John wrote this about 2,000 years ago.  It seems real clear that John was identifying a specific time of day on a specific date for this to occur.

Therefore, the the time of the Tribulation has been set.  

 

2 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

And this good news of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations,
and then shall the end come.  Matthew 24:14

Three posts with slightly different takes on this matter of the end of the age timing! One view would say there is a strict timetable set by God.  Another view would be that man has some influence or that God is waiting on His delegate to do something. Another view says God has a certain number of men that will be saved, and then the end will come. And I think this is one of those situations that scripture can be found that seems to support each idea.

Someone on here reminded me of the time Abraham influenced the Lord, as He was about to destroy Sodom & Gomorrah. This man of faith certainly had an affect on what God was about to do.  In the end, the cities were still destroyed, but the point is, God listened to a man - there was some delegated authority He allowed man, so therefore He took note.

What do you think on this matter @AdHoc?