3 Main Themes I see in the Bible: Love - Image - Dominion

[Vine Abider]

@AdHoc @Marilyn C

Well AdHoc has certainly given some things to consider! My vision of the kingdom had not been to that extreme of potential violence like AdHoc presented, but then there's "The kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matt 11:12)

And AdHoc brings up a good point about God's love.  Love is still His primary motivator.  And we see over and over and over in Revelation where He gives men opportunities to repent, and they would not.  Therefore judgment comes swiftly to destroy them.

Evil must be eradicated, and he has given dominion to mankind, and now specifically, the church.  Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah (a fierce picture, to be sure) and He now lives in us -->  We are His boots on the ground: "The God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly." (Rom 16:20)

So definitely something to consider & chew on . . .

[AdHoc]

23 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

@AdHoc @Marilyn C

Well AdHoc has certainly given some things to consider! My vision of the kingdom had not been to that extreme of potential violence like AdHoc presented, but then there's "The kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matt 11:12)

And AdHoc brings up a good point about God's love.  Love is still His primary motivator.  And we see over and over and over in Revelation where He gives men opportunities to repent, and they would not.  Therefore judgment comes swiftly to destroy them.

Evil must be eradicated, and he has given dominion to mankind, and now specifically, the church.  Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah (a fierce picture, to be sure) and He now lives in us -->  We are His boots on the ground: "The God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly." (Rom 16:20)

So definitely something to consider & chew on . . .

Thanks for the opportunity to air that aspect. I'll back off now with just one remark. Romans tells us that the Kingdom of God is not meat or drink, but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom.14:17). How is peace and joy achieved? Is it by negotiating with the likes of Hitler, Genghis Khan and Charles Manson?

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

 

The men and women who make co-king with Jesus are men and women who will carry out instructions by PURE OBEDIENCE without even understanding them.

 

 

God is NOT making ROBOTS, man does that. God is making SONS who are mature and who will reign with Him in the highest on His seat of power and authority over all. 

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Thanks for the opportunity to air that aspect. I'll back off now with just one remark. Romans tells us that the Kingdom of God is not meat or drink, but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom.14:17). How is peace and joy achieved? Is it by negotiating with the likes of Hitler, Genghis Khan and Charles Manson?

Jesus is the conqueror, He has defeated Satan and his demons, and HE WILL PUT DOWN `ALL RULE AND AUTHORITY AND POWER. ` (1 Cor. 15: 24)

[AdHoc]

18 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

God is NOT making ROBOTS, man does that. God is making SONS who are mature and who will reign with Him in the highest on His seat of power and authority over all. 

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

 

18 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Jesus is the conqueror, He has defeated Satan and his demons, and HE WILL PUT DOWN `ALL RULE AND AUTHORITY AND POWER. ` (1 Cor. 15: 24)

Great verses. Don't forget that in Matthew 25:31 our Lord's Throne is set up on earth - unless of course "ALL Nations" have gone to heaven.

[Vine Abider]

7 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Don't forget that in Matthew 25:31 our Lord's Throne is set up on earth - unless of course "ALL Nations" have gone to heaven.

Thanks for sharing . . . that passage in Matthew 25:31-46 clearly shows the throne of "the Son of Man" on earth.  It demonstrates that His purpose is with man, on the earth.

[Alive]

He walked with Adam in the Garden. Now He is Lord, God, King, Savior and brother. 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks for sharing . . . that passage in Matthew 25:31-46 clearly shows the throne of "the Son of Man" on earth.  It demonstrates that His purpose is with man, on the earth.

`Throne,` means authority. Thus, the Son will come with the authority His father gave Him previously.

`I have set my king on my holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

And that authority is set in the highest realm.

`you have come to Mount Zion....to God,....angels....Jesus...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

No one on earth gave Jesus His kingship. That is why He said His `kingdom/rule was not of this world.` (John 18: 36) It is the Father who gives Jesus His kingship and we see that throne, (rule) set in heaven prior to the tribulation.

`behold, a throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne...like a jasper and a sardius stone...` (Rev. 4: 2 & 3)

The Father set this throne up in the highest. And it is His Son, the conqueror (jasper) and king, (sardius) who it is for. Remember Jesus said to the overcomers - 

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE as I also overcame and sat down with my father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Thus in Matt. 25: 31 we read of the Lord coming with His angels and with the authority (throne) of the Father. It is not from this world.

Jesus will set up His earthly rule through Israel and return on high.

`The Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. He will subdue the peoples under our feet. He will choose our inheritance for us. The excellence of Jacob whom He loves.

God has GONE UP WITH A SHOUT,` The Lord with the sound of the trumpet.....` (Ps. 47: 2 & 5)

 

[Marilyn C]

Christ on His Own Throne.

Let us now look closer at the One on this throne -the High Priest and King. The gem stones are given to reveal more understanding to us.

The Gem Stones.

               `And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)

                                                                                                           

The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer -  `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)

                 Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer.  (The Concise English Dictionary)

 

Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.    

 

The Sardius gem stone was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion.   

[AdHoc]

20 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

`Throne,` means authority. Thus, the Son will come with the authority His father gave Him previously.

`I have set my king on my holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

And that authority is set in the highest realm.

`you have come to Mount Zion....to God,....angels....Jesus...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

No one on earth gave Jesus His kingship. That is why He said His `kingdom/rule was not of this world.` (John 18: 36) It is the Father who gives Jesus His kingship and we see that throne, (rule) set in heaven prior to the tribulation.

`behold, a throne set in heaven, and one sat on the throne...like a jasper and a sardius stone...` (Rev. 4: 2 & 3)

The Father set this throne up in the highest. And it is His Son, the conqueror (jasper) and king, (sardius) who it is for. Remember Jesus said to the overcomers - 

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE as I also overcame and sat down with my father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Thus in Matt. 25: 31 we read of the Lord coming with His angels and with the authority (throne) of the Father. It is not from this world.

Jesus will set up His earthly rule through Israel and return on high.

`The Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the earth. He will subdue the peoples under our feet. He will choose our inheritance for us. The excellence of Jacob whom He loves.

God has GONE UP WITH A SHOUT,` The Lord with the sound of the trumpet.....` (Ps. 47: 2 & 5)

 

 

19 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Christ on His Own Throne.

Let us now look closer at the One on this throne -the High Priest and King. The gem stones are given to reveal more understanding to us.

The Gem Stones.

               `And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)

                                                                                                           

The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer -  `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)

                 Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer.  (The Concise English Dictionary)

 

Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.    

 

The Sardius gem stone was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion.   

I know we've gone 12 rounds about this once before. But just few short observations.

The return of the Lord to earth is probably the most prophesied event in the Bible. I don't think I have to build a case for that. But you have built a case for His leaving again to take up a position in heaven with us sitting i His Throne in "the highest". Now, I don't claim to know every implication and nuance of every scripture, but the plain language of all the verses you have proffered, says nothing of the Lord Jesus ascending again after His glorious return.

Psalm 47, which is the only scripture that might allude to this is a Psalm of David that he wrote after the joyous occasion of bringing the Ark of the Covenant from Obed-Edom to Jerusalem. Since the Bible gives Jerusalem a "high" place, scripture speaks of "going up to Jerusalem" e.g. 1st Ki.12:27. Since God had promised to sit between the Cherubim on the Mercy Seat, the Psalmist could rightfully say "God is gone up". But there is no talk of heaven, only of ruling the Nations.

The concept of sitting in some-one's throne is clearly shown by Joseph of Egypt. 

39 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art: 40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou. 41 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt. 42 And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck; 43 And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt. (Gen.41:39–43)

To sit in someone's throne shows that you wield the authority of the PERSON whose throne it is without being that person. It is not a matter of geography, but a matter of authority to manage the king's affairs. This is the promise of Christ. We get to sit in His Throne, but the practical result is  in Matthew 24.

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods

You don't actually sit in Christ's throne drinking alcohol-free wine with 150 million other Christians. You continue managing Christ's domain with His authority backing you.

I submit then that there is no case for sojourn away from our cities (Lk.19:17-19). There is no case for Christ's return to heaven since His Father rules there. There is no case for our return to heaven after so glorious a return to earth after the Bema in the clouds Jude 14, 1st Thess.3:13, 4:14 etc).

That He comes with angels is not disputed. But it seriously looks like they stay on earth. Otherwise how could we, who are on earth, judge them (1st Cor.6:3)