Do Christians Have Two Natures (a sin nature & a divine nature)?

[steve morrow]

JESUS  SAYS  

 

JOHN 14:13  and whatsoever you shall ask  -- in  MY  name-- I will do it--

 --again--  forasmuch then as  CHRIST  hath suffered for us in the flesh arm yourselves likewise with the same mind for he that hath suffered in the flesh  HATH  CEASED  FROM  SIN

 

JOHN 15:5  I am the vine you are the branches he that abideth in  ME  and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit  --for without  ME  you can do nothing--

 

1 JOHN 5:14  and this is the confidence that we have in  HIM  that if we ask anything according to  HIS  will he heareth us 

--5:15-- and if we know that  HE  hear us whatsoever we ask we know that we have the petitions that we desired of  HIM

 

PROVERBS 28:9  he that turneth away his ear from hearing the law even his prayer shall be abomination 

 

COVETOUSNESS  ---  LUST  ---  ENVY

 

PSALM 66:18  if I regard iniquity in my heart  --THE  LORD  WILL  NOT  HEAR  ME

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Dennis1209]

8 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So you sin sometimes - are you, in fact, then a sinner?

If that's the case, please quote a new testament verse that says that you, as a born-again saint, are identified as a sinner.

Perhaps I should remain silent, as this is not addressed to me, but it is an interesting and important topic. By “you,” are you referring to the body, soul, and spirit? Said another way, can and does the flesh and soul sin?

1 John 3:9 (KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Yes, we are a new creature in Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It seems to be associated with the tenses of our Salvation also. We have been saved, we are being saved, we will be saved (glorified, not capable of sinning). Paul mentions he did some things he wot not in the flesh: Philippians 1:22 (KJV) But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

There are different systematic theological views on this subject. I only have an understanding that may be incorrect, and I welcome others' perspectives.

[Vine Abider]

7 hours ago, Tony the student said:

Does the Christian have the nature to sin and the nature to be Divine? Simple answer is yes.

The example is Peter. Christ said, "Get behind me Satan." Peter is Christ's Apostle and Father's servant.

Christ even used Peter to reveal a horrible sinful nature, which is the denial of knowing Jesus. Who personally redeemed Peter three times for each denial? Father forgave Peter in Jesus' Holy Name.

Therefore, walk in Faith and obedience by becoming like Father and Son.

 

True, but before Christ's resurrection, He couldn't get into his disciples to make them regenerated and born-again with His very life.  What constitutes a Christian is a matter of life, and Christ's life could not get into His disciples before the One Grain fell into the ground to die to bring forth many grains.

This thread is addressing Christians, that is, one's with Christ in them and whether the sin nature is still inherent in us. What you addressed above showed before the cross scenarios, in which they definitely had a sin nature . . . but is that still true after they received the Spirit of Christ and became a new creation?

[TheBlade]

Hi all.. I can understand saying we don't have two natures. I know since He found me I no longer am a slave to the flesh and have new spirit new man. I also know this flesh has not changed. In Eph he tell us to that we put off concerning the former conversation the "old man", which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the "new man", which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Then "“For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want” 

Paul said "as it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out." 

So one could see why some could say "two natures". Not true.. it can be hard to see and understand. We all have this battel with the flesh its why we need to always renew our minds daily. See that's how I see Christ saying "if you love me keep my words". Its not about some King some GOD saying OBEY ME! No.. if we don't in this world we will have more troubles then we can handle. But if we do as He asks.. its a better ride so to speak. Its a hen drawing all her chicks to her self.. she just wants to protect them. Ho how he loves you and me.. oh how He loves you and me.. He gave.. 

[Vine Abider]

Going through my files I found this paper I wrote ten years ago on this matter, and thought to share with y'all.  Enjoy!

 

What the New Testament says of Believers

 Summary:  Our old man (in Adam) is dead, but sin dwells in our flesh, and our life is hidden with Christ who is in our spirit.  We have been born anew as sons of God and therefore are no longer sinners.  Now we are eagerly waiting for the last phase of salvation, that is, the redemption of our fleshly body.  We have been blessed and equipped with everything we need in Christ, the Overcoming One in us!

 New Testament Facts about Us (believers) Now:

 1. We were once (past tense) sinners; enemies of God and dead in spirit.

·       “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

·       “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son . . .” Romans 5:10

·       “You were dead in your transgressions . . .” Ephesians 2:1

 

2. We were born again with Christ in us, our hope of glory.

·       “That which is born of Spirit is spirit.” John 3:6

·        “The riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”  Colossians 1:27

 

3. Our old man was crucified in Him – dead, dead, dead! (Galatians 2:20)

·       “Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him . . .” Romans 6:6

·       “For you died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.”  Colossians 3:3

 

4. We are now sons of God – no longer sinners, but saints.

·       “As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” Romans 8:14

·       And because you are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying, ‘Abba!’  ‘Father!’  Galatians 4:6

·       “Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints . . .”  Ephesians 2:19

 

5. Our old man is dead, but sin dwells in the flesh.

·       “But now it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.  For in me (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells . . . Romans 7:17-18

·       “It is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.” Romans 7:20

·       “You are not in the flesh, but in the spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.”   Romans 8:9

 

6. And now we are awaiting the redemption of our body (to finally be done with the flesh of sin).

·       “. . . eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8:23

·       “Whenever this destructible puts on indestructibility and this mortal, immortality, then that word which is written shall come to pass, ‘Death is swallowed up by victory.’”         1 Corinthians 15:54

·       “The Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body . . .” Philippians 3:20-21

 

7. Therefore, in our present state we are encouraged that -

·       “If by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.”  Romans 8:13

·       “Walk in spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.” Galatians 5:16

·       “Being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ.”  Philippians 1:6

 

Our Momentary Light Affliction produces an Eternal Weight of Glory!

2 Corinthians 4:17

[TheBlade]

14 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Going through my files I found this paper I wrote ten years ago on this matter, and thought to share with y'all.  Enjoy!

 

What the New Testament says of Believers

 Summary:  Our old man (in Adam) is dead, but sin dwells in our flesh, and our life is hidden with Christ who is in our spirit.  We have been born anew as sons of God and therefore are no longer sinners.  Now we are eagerly waiting for the last phase of salvation, that is, the redemption of our fleshly body.  We have been blessed and equipped with everything we need in Christ, the Overcoming One in us!

 New Testament Facts about Us (believers) Now:

 1. We were once (past tense) sinners; enemies of God and dead in spirit.

·       “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

·       “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son . . .” Romans 5:10

·       “You were dead in your transgressions . . .” Ephesians 2:1

 

2. We were born again with Christ in us, our hope of glory.

·       “That which is born of Spirit is spirit.” John 3:6

·        “The riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”  Colossians 1:27

 

3. Our old man was crucified in Him – dead, dead, dead! (Galatians 2:20)

·       “Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him . . .” Romans 6:6

·       “For you died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.”  Colossians 3:3

 

4. We are now sons of God – no longer sinners, but saints.

·       “As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” Romans 8:14

·       And because you are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying, ‘Abba!’  ‘Father!’  Galatians 4:6

·       “Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints . . .”  Ephesians 2:19

 

5. Our old man is dead, but sin dwells in the flesh.

·       “But now it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.  For in me (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells . . . Romans 7:17-18

·       “It is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.” Romans 7:20

·       “You are not in the flesh, but in the spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.”   Romans 8:9

 

6. And now we are awaiting the redemption of our body (to finally be done with the flesh of sin).

·       “. . . eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8:23

·       “Whenever this destructible puts on indestructibility and this mortal, immortality, then that word which is written shall come to pass, ‘Death is swallowed up by victory.’”         1 Corinthians 15:54

·       “The Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body . . .” Philippians 3:20-21

 

7. Therefore, in our present state we are encouraged that -

·       “If by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.”  Romans 8:13

·       “Walk in spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.” Galatians 5:16

·       “Being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ.”  Philippians 1:6

 

Our Momentary Light Affliction produces an Eternal Weight of Glory!

2 Corinthians 4:17

Hi... I need to reply more and chat. "no longer sinners" I agree. I just saw this preacher I think all would know him very nice guy preaches the word but yet said "we are still sinners". Great stuff thanks

[Vine Abider]

9 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Hi... I need to reply more and chat. "no longer sinners" I agree. I just saw this preacher I think all would know him very nice guy preaches the word but yet said "we are still sinners". Great stuff thanks

Of course I get the augment that says, "If we still sin, that makes us sinners!" as this is very natural reasoning. But, I can't find scripture in the new testament that specifically supports the notion that we're still identified as sinners after our new birth into Christ!

And this analogy applies very well I think: A man who was homeless inherits a billion dollars complete with a large mansion from a relative.  Is he still a homeless pauper?  No.  His identity is now a very wealthy man.  However, he can foolishly believe he is still penniless and act like he has no money or home, and therefore just keeps living like he did before - identifying himself as a homeless person.  (However, at any time he can come to his senses, believe his new, true identity and act accordingly - much like the prodigal son . . .)

[Marathoner]

29 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Of course I get the augment that says, "If we still sin, that makes us sinners!" as this is very natural reasoning. But, I can't find scripture in the new testament that specifically supports the notion that we're still identified as sinners after our new birth into Christ!

And this analogy applies very well I think: A man who was homeless inherits a billion dollars complete with a large mansion from a relative.  Is he still a homeless pauper?  No.  His identity is now a very wealthy man.  However, he can foolishly believe he is still penniless and act like he has no money or home, and therefore just keeps living like he did before - identifying himself as a homeless person.  (However, at any time he can come to his senses, believe his new, true identity and act accordingly - much like the prodigal son . . .)

Indeed. We who were once dead in our trespasses are alive in Christ. 

An interesting aside: I knew of a homeless man many years ago whose net worth was astonishing. This older fellow was a millionaire, but he didn't care one whit about it. This does in fact happen! 

[Vine Abider]

1 minute ago, Marathoner said:

Indeed. We who were once dead in our trespasses are alive in Christ. 

An interesting aside: I knew of a homeless man many years ago whose net worth was astonishing. This older fellow was a millionaire, but he didn't care one whit about it. This does in fact happen! 

Well it sounds like he actually knew about his wealth, but chose to not care about it - wow!

I remember hearing things like that when I was in Berkeley in the 70s, which had a large number of street people who had been released from mental institutions yet were still on the unstable side (but supposedly harmless).  One fellow, who used to talk loudly (and rather eloquently) to the sky, reputedly had been a top scientist at Lawrence Livermoore Labs and supposedly had lots of money - allegedly working on the Manhattan Project had sent him around the bend.  However, he lived like a homeless person, always standing on the corner and pontificating to the heavens . . .

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

Well it sounds like he actually knew about his wealth, but chose to not care about it - wow!

I remember hearing things like that when I was in Berkeley in the 70s, which had a large number of street people who had been released from mental institutions yet were still on the unstable side (but supposedly harmless).  One fellow, who used to talk loudly (and rather eloquently) to the sky, reputedly had been a top scientist at Lawrence Livermoore Labs and supposedly had lots of money - allegedly working on the Manhattan Project had sent him around the bend.  However, he lived like a homeless person, always standing on the corner and pontificating to the heavens . . .

I was there in the 70's. It was a carnival atmosphere.

I am so thankful the Lord kept me safe.