Any thoughts on this?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Yes, still a child of God.  Why?  His life is in me.

If one is knowingly and willing doing sin... they are not allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them and as such they are in open rebellion against the Lord... meaning they have become corrupt after having previously been in right standing with the Lord..

If one does not turn away from their sin and confess it to the Lord as being sin, they will not spend eternity with the Lord.

Those that say this is not true are claiming one can be living in sin... knowingly, and willingly... and still be right with the Lord.  That, is simply false doctrine because it's not supported by scripture!

This is exactly what satan told Adam and Eve is they could disobey God and not die (spiritual death, separation from God) after God told them if they disobeyed Him they would in fact die (spiritual death, separation from God).

*So the question now is... Did Jesus go to the Cross of Calvary to make the lie the devil told Adam and Eve to become true???

 

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Therefore, the old vessel was done away with, including all it's corruption.

If one is still smoking the weed... then the old man has not been done away with as far as the weed smoker is concerned... which is why they keep smoking the weed!

This is because they are a child of disobedience and no longer in right standing with the Lord.  We know for a fact the Holy Ghost is not leading anybody to get intoxicated so those smoking the grass are refusing to be led by the Lord.

Remember, only those led by the Holy Ghost are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)
 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

The reward is not about eternal salvation.

And yet the OSAS camp continually claims this verse proves that even if one does live in sin they will still go to Heaven.

They claim it IS in fact speaking of salvation and they use it to "prove" one can live in sin and only lose a few rewards because of their sin (consequences you keep referring to), but ultimately they'll go to Heaven anyway.

This is claiming the same thing the devil told Adam and Eve in the garden that one can sin against God and surely they won't die... when God said they would die.

Romans 8:13  - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die
Most Preachers - Surely you won't die

This is the same thing the devil said in the garden!

 

 

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

And do you think you will spend all eternity up in heaven?

Why would I not depart from willingly and knowingly doing sin, continually abiding in Christ bearing fruit as to not be cut off, enduring to the end of my life so that I would be saved?

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:02 PM, Stan Murff said:

If it's true that all our sins past present and future are already forgiven, and we will still go to heaven regardless of our actions, then why does it even matter?

We must be born again in order to enter the city of heaven.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh,
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
John 3:5-6

"If you live after the flesh, you shall die,
but if you through the Spirit
do put to death the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.
Because as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
they are the sons of God."
Romans 8:13-14

"And they that belong to Christ, have crucified the flesh
with its passions and lusts"
Galatians 5:24

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked,
for whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap,
he that sows to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption,
he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting"
Galatians 6:7-8

"For by grace you have been saved, through faith,
and that not of yourselves, the Holy Spirit is the gift of God, [Acts 2:38]
not of works, lest any man should boast.
Because we are His creation created in Christ Jesus for good works
which God has ordained that we should walk in them."
Ephesians 2:8-10

 

We get the Holy Spirit for free by grace, for believing that Christ
died and rose again. Based on belief God has purchased us,
with His Spirit. He gave us a payment, expecting ourselves,
our bodies, and our lives, in return.

When you give a down payment on a car,
you expect to get in that car and drive it around.
Behold, you are the car, God has given the down payment
of the Holy Spirit to you, and therefore expects to get in and drive you around.

 

You'll sometimes here a modern message like 'Just rest in Jesus's love'
as if Jesus is saying like,
'don't worry about your sin, I love you, just rest in the fact that I love you'

But what did Jesus actually say?

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten, be zealous therefore and repent"
Revelation 3:19

 

"He that has my commands and keeps them,
he it is that loves me"
John 14:21-24

"Was Paul crucified for you?
Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
1 Corinthians 1:13

"If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ,
let that person be Anathema! Oh Lord Come!"
1 Corinthians 16:22

 

[Sower]

15 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

If one is still smoking the weed... then the old man has not been done away with as far as the weed smoker is concerned... which is why they keep smoking the weed!

This is because they are a child of disobedience and no longer in right standing with the Lord.  We know for a fact the Holy Ghost is not leading anybody to get intoxicated so those smoking the grass are refusing to be led by the Lord.

Remember, only those led by the Holy Ghost are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)
 

Interesting. What if say they only smoke a couple of joints a day and get mildly high or if they only drank a couple of beers and get just mildly intoxicated?

Would you say   they are a child of disobedience and no longer in right standing with the Lord?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

27 minutes ago, Sower said:

Interesting. What if say they only smoke a couple of joints a day and get mildly high or if they only drank a couple of beers and get just mildly intoxicated?

Would you say   they are a child of disobedience and no longer in right standing with the Lord?

This is like the guy that says "I never liked cocaine... I just liked how it smells" 
Or like Bill Clinton said that he smoked the weed but he never inhaled!

Yes, those getting slightly intoxicated are not being led by the Holy Spirit... and those that reject the leading of the Holy Spirit or being disobedient because they have turned away from the Lord in favor of doing sin... sin has become more important to them than the Lord.

We are told in  1 Peter 5:8 to be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion,goes about, seeking whom he may devour

I know lots of people claim Jesus drank alcoholic wine but there's no proof in scripture than He did.  The reason they called Him a wine bibber is because He was seen associating with known wine bibbers. 

He was preaching the Gospel to them, not taking shots of booze or getting drunk with them.

The only time we see in scripture where Jesus might have drank wine was at the last supper and even then you cannot prove that was not freshly made grape just (un-fermented).  Wine just means fruit of the vine and does not indicate whether it's fermented or not.  Only the context in which it's used to indicate whether it's fermented or not.

Besides, taking communion would have been one sip so even if Jesus was drinking fermented wine, one sip is far from getting buzzed (drunk) as some like to claim to justify themselves getting toasty on the booze and claim they are not sinning.

 

[DeighAnn]

16 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

This is exactly what satan told Adam and Eve is they could disobey God and not die (spiritual death, separation from God) after God told them if they disobeyed Him they would in fact die (spiritual death, separation from God).

Good point
 

16 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

If one is still smoking the weed... then the old man has not been done away with as far as the weed smoker is concerned... which is why they keep smoking the weed!

You obviously have read Gen 1:29 and dealt with that in order to make that statement, so how did you come to exclude it?

What if it isn't 'the nature of the old man' but for Medical purposes?    

So, do you believe prescription medications given by doctors is OK?  

Do you believe there is a difference between them? 

It's quite the sticky wicket... Maybe it isn't the substance as much as the intent?  

 

 

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

The only time we see in scripture where Jesus might have drank wine was at the last supper and even then you cannot prove that was not freshly made grape just (un-fermented).  Wine just means fruit of the vine and does not indicate whether it's fermented or not.  Only the context in which it's used to indicate whether it's fermented or not.

wine is the product of fermentation, if it isn't fermented it then it isn't wine, it's just grape juice.  

I think this is how false doctrines find their footing.  Men making assumption and conclusions from their own points of view mixed with SOME of what is written but not all of it. 



Some can eat meat sacrificed to idols because of their knowledge while others CAN'T because they have yet to come to understanding.  

So SIN to one spirit is not sin to another, it all depends on what the Holy Spirit impresses upon US, PERSONALLY.  

THAT is why we are not to judge another mans servant, come under a heavy yoke...

100% I agree WE ARE NOT TO BE DRUNKARDS but that is a far cry from having wine or strong drink when that is not the intent.




Num 6
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:
3He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
4All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

doesn't prove the fallacy of the 'grape juice' THEORY?



5All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.

6All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body.

As that gets rid of the THE DECAY BEING RAISED UP IN GLORY THEORY.

7He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head.

8All the days of his separation he is holy unto the LORD.

9And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.

10And on the eighth day he shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:

5331. pharmakeia 
Strong's Concordance
pharmakeia: the use of medicine, drugs or spells
Original Word: φαρμακεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pharmakeia
Phonetic Spelling: (far-mak-i'-ah)
Definition: the use of medicine, drugs or spells
Usage: magic, sorcery, enchantment.

5331 pharmakeía (from pharmakeuō, "administer drugs") – properly, drug-related sorcery, like the practice of magical-arts, etc. (A. T. Robertson).

sorcery, witchcraft.
From pharmakeus; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively) -- sorcery, witchcraft.


I am just pointing to how THE WAYS OF THE WORLD ARE DECEPTIVE and they SEEK to make void the words of GOD.  

as to GEN 1:29
Cannabis is an annual, dioecious, flowering herb. 

[Sower]

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Yes, those getting slightly intoxicated are not being led by the Holy Spirit... and those that reject the leading of the Holy Spirit or being disobedient because they have turned away from the Lord in favor of doing sin... sin has become more important to them than the Lord.

We are told in  1 Peter 5:8 to be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion,goes about, seeking whom he may devour

Thanks Stan. I remember someone posted recently about drinking and was concerned and ask about about just drinking two beers and getting buzzed real good and thought it was no big deal.  Perhaps he will see your post and 'change his thinking'

I myself drink a beer most days with my wife at the end of our work day at home, on the patio together or still working. I enjoy the mellow moments with my wife at the days end of toil. Weekends I might sometimes even have two.

Was not aware I was not being led by the holy spirit nor even thought of that. Same as when I eat I guess. Seemed ok to me. Just don't eat like a glutton though, I guess. Likewise,Although I would be led by the spirit to not over indulge, beer nor food, wherein is excess. Give thanks and enjoy. In faith.

Anything with out faith is sin. Hope this isn't blasphemous but I often thank God for blessing me with a wife who can sit and have a beer with me. Hope that's OK.
I have the faith that it is...

I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live;

And people should eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of their labor,
for these are gifts from God.   (and amen)

 

[Vine Abider]

9 minutes ago, Sower said:

Thanks Stan. I remember someone posted recently about drinking and was concerned and ask about about just drinking two beers and getting buzzed real good and thought it was no big deal.  Perhaps he will see your post and 'change his thinking'

I myself drink a beer most days with my wife at the end of our work day at home, on the patio together or still working. I enjoy the mellow moments with my wife at the days end of toil. Weekends I might sometimes even have two.

Was not aware I was not being led by the holy spirit nor even thought of that. Same as when I eat I guess. Seemed ok to me. Just don't eat like a glutton though, I guess. Likewise,Although I would be led by the spirit to not over indulge, beer nor food, wherein is excess. Give thanks and enjoy. In faith.

Anything with out faith is sin. Hope this isn't blasphemous but I often thank God for blessing me with a wife who can sit and have a beer with me. Hope that's OK.
I have the faith that it is...

I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live;

And people should eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of their labor,
for these are gifts from God.   (and amen)

 

And I go out for dinner one week night with a handful of brothers, after we've had a time of fellowship and prayer. Maybe half of them will order a beer.  I don't care for beer any more (used to get me in trouble, and the Lord dealt with that), so I order a diet soda.  We have wonderful fellowship and the Spirit flows among us!

This, of course, is a Romans 14 scenario - one does, but another doesn't.  And if what we have the freedom to do stumbles anyone, then it's a sin.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

And I go out for dinner one week night with a handful of brothers, after we've had a time of fellowship and prayer. Maybe half of them will order a beer.  I don't care for beer any more (used to get me in trouble, and the Lord dealt with that), so I order a diet soda.  We have wonderful fellowship and the Spirit flows among us!

 

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

This, of course, is a Romans 14 scenario - one does, but another doesn't.  And if what we have the freedom to do stumbles anyone, then it's a sin.

Romans 14: The issues brought to light in Romans 14 are matters of conscience.

Are matters of what each one believes, matters of their conscience. 

The person's conscience is involved...whether he aproves or disapproves. 

Being a matter of individual choices the person is quided by his own conscience and the Holy Spirit does not come in to Judge in matters against one's conscience which are not sinful towards God. 

In those matters our conscience aproves or disapproves, our conscience Judge something we do not approve and we Judge the person who does it.

Regarding food or drink, matters of this kind the Holy Spirit does not get involved to judge towards God but to guide...and it leaves the person where he is to have peace in him self in his heart in his conscience. 

Those are not matters before the judgement seat of Jesus Christ.  

The underlined issue is when people confused the judgement or aproved of their conscience as the judgement or approval of the Holy Spirit...those people must learn to tell the difference between the will of their own conscience and the will of the Holy Spirit. 

Sometimes it is the same and in many matters are the same as in "thow sall not kill" or "still". In situations about the safety and security of the person.  

The confusion comes when a believer confused the quidance of his conscience as the quidance of the Holy Spirit and he can not that his conscience can be in conflict with other people's conscience but both of them may not be in conflict with the will of God. 

As in matters of food of drinks or days and other things that makes the distinction between of one group to another. Even that time as it has always been they were different groups of believers distinct from one another...in cultural and other matters that distinguish their members from the others...and they were believers without any membership affiliation. Without prejudices..just like Jesus Christ who accepts them all in his name even though he disapproves many of the things they say and do and preach if they preach. 

Romans 14 is about being saved from one's own conscience..from the mind of one's own conscience and it is from anyone to find out the programing of their ownconscience and begin to take control for themselves ...is not whether someone is saved or damn.

Or when someone is saved or not. 

We are saved because we believed in Jesus Christ and not whether we have peace in our conscience or not...that's erelevant as many people die having peace in their conscience because they have done their duty towards their beliefs but not towards the will of God to believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. 

For Jesus Christ rather everyone believes in him and dies in a state of a confused mind than die in a state of a stable mind but without faith in him still in his denial in him, but with a good conscience and without Faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[1to3]

Here is a wonderful testimony of struggling with temptation and sin, and God showing His answers to the question.

Can be found on youtube with the following title:

Titus Morris/My Testimony