Is this Correct Teaching???

[Michael37]

11 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

God will not let his children perish. He will bring you to your senses if you are born again

God hardens backsliders who resist correction, so that their restoration back to the position of faith in Him for salvation is forfeit.

   (Heb 12:25)  See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

[NConly]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

God hardens backsliders who resist correction, so that their restoration back to the position of faith in Him for salvation is forfeit.

   (Heb 12:25)  See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

1 Peter 5

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Phil 1

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

 

[kwikphilly]

4 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

God will not let his children perish. He will bring you to your senses if you are born again

I understand both,what you are Saying of course but also what Mike is saying and this why I always say it's not that cut n dry OSAS,there's thst 3rd option I talk about..... the one who DECIDES to reject the God's Grace-,a willful,deliberate choice-full knowledge..... this person has Greived Holy Spirit,the reprobate who cannot crucify Jesus Agajn but would never even try because he has no remorse,he's unrepentant

The question always remains " was this person ever Born Again in the first place?" I,for one would not be willing to risk anyone's Eternal Life on it..... I think a continual sinful lifestyle can eventually harden a heart so dangerously  bad that it is like a spreading disease infecting both heart and mind......

The enemy can make all that glitters seem like gold,he deceived the Holy Heavenly Angels-,a 3rd of them and they were in God's Almightys Glorious Presence!

I must be very careful not to stray from Jesus- I'm lesser than the Angels when not walkjng in Spirit and in Truth- without His Heart & Mind to Keep me on the straight & narrow accessing Power of Holy Spirit..... never want to be vulnerable and must always guard my heart- not going to bet my life on OSAS

With love in Christ

 

[JohnD]

16 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

That's false doctrine!

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

ALL of Jesus' teachings are in play for Christians... it's being under deception to say otherwise according to Jesus.

You have taken Luke 16:16 out of the overall context of scripture to render a false dichotomy:.

• Luke 16:16 does not mean the Kingdom of God was never preached in the Old Testament (Law and Prophets) it means the prophetic teaching about the New Covenant was never referred to as the Kingdom of God (Kingdom of Heaven) until John (who used the term first see Mark 1:14)
• Luke 16:16 does not mean Jesus never taught anything about the Law during his walk on Earth before his death

The pretext of your misinterpretation of Luke 16:16 is to make the teachings of Jesus about the Old Covenant appear to be about the New Covenant which is false, heretical, and that which the Apostles Paul, Peter, and James opposed in their epistles about Judaizers (Ephesians 2:8-10, Galatians 1:8-9, Galatians 4:21-31, James 2:10, Acts 15:6-21) ← just to name a few.

Jesus taught in Matthew 5:27-30 that if a man looks upon a woman with lust he is susceptible to hell fire (reminding the people of the teaching of Job 31:1-13).

That we must forgive everyone their trespass against us in order to be forgiven by the Father (contradicting Ephesians 2:9 and John 16:27).

If someone has ought against you, leave your sacrifice at the altar to first be reconciled to your brother... (Matthew 5:24) clearly referring to the Levitical sacrificial system.

The so-called Lord's prayer (which in reality is John chapter 17) teaches a kingdom that has not yet come to this very day (contradicting Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10, 1 Peter 2:3-9)

Etc.

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Everything before that death was Old Testament under the Old Covenant Law of Moses.

This does not indicate that the New Covenant New Testament Grace was not preached during that time. Obviously it was preached. Prophetically. As that which was about to come but had not yet come.

"At hand" Mark 1:15

"Is near" Luke 10:9

The Tanakh itself contains prophecies about the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34 being the most obvious) with various prophetic pieces to the puzzle (Genesis 3:15, Deuteronomy 18:15-19, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12, Daniel 9:25-26, Micah 5:2, Zechariah 6:12-13, virtually the entire life of the patriarch Joseph, etc etc).

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, NConly said:

1 Peter 5

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Phil 1

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

(Gal 4:8)  But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.
(Gal 4:9)  But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
(Gal 4:10)  You observe days and months and seasons and years.
(Gal 4:11)  I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

[JimmyB]

9 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

No now that's false!  Everyone does not sin.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

You are confusing making mistakes such as forgetting something, dropping something on the floor, not getting something at the grocery store the wife wanted you to pick up...

All these types of mistakes are in fact falling short of God's absolute perfection which Jesus walked in.  These are a result of sin being in the world and Christians not being literally perfect yet.  These are "sins" not unto death (separation from God)

BUT, this does not mean that we all sin all the time as in willingly and knowingly lie, cheat, steal, sexual perversion, etc, etc and by saying it';s normal for Christians to sin all the time you this is a stumbling block to believers.

It leads people to believe we can live in sin and still be saved because after all everyone is saying that Christians sin every day in thought word and deed.

So, speak for yourself when you say that because it not true that all Christians are sinners and sin every day.  Being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ means we are walking in the Spirit so we don't fulfill the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

God's Word says we can do all things thru Christ that strengthens us, but apparently some Christians can't even quit sinning because they keep hearing that Christians sin all the time! 

This is exactly WHY some believe on can live in sin and still be right before the Lord and this is causing many to stumble!

I repeat: Everyone sins, including Christians.  Nobody has ever been sinless except for one person: Jesus Christ.  

That is what the Bible clearly says.

[Mike Mclees]

7 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

God will not let his children perish. He will bring you to your senses if you are born again

I would say then let the enlightened of the Lord depart from those who error.

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

You have taken Luke 16:16 out of the overall context of scripture to render a false dichotomy:.

• Luke 16:16 does not mean the Kingdom of God was never preached in the Old Testament (Law and Prophets) it means the prophetic teaching about the New Covenant was never referred to as the Kingdom of God (Kingdom of Heaven) until John (who used the term first see Mark 1:14)
• Luke 16:16 does not mean Jesus never taught anything about the Law during his walk on Earth before his death

The pretext of your misinterpretation of Luke 16:16 is to make the teachings of Jesus about the Old Covenant appear to be about the New Covenant which is false, heretical, and that which the Apostles Paul, Peter, and James opposed in their epistles about Judaizers (Ephesians 2:8-10, Galatians 1:8-9, Galatians 4:21-31, James 2:10, Acts 15:6-21) ← just to name a few.

Jesus taught in Matthew 5:27-30 that if a man looks upon a woman with lust he is susceptible to hell fire (reminding the people of the teaching of Job 31:1-13).

That we must forgive everyone their trespass against us in order to be forgiven by the Father (contradicting Ephesians 2:9 and John 16:27).

If someone has ought against you, leave your sacrifice at the altar to first be reconciled to your brother... (Matthew 5:24) clearly referring to the Levitical sacrificial system.

The so-called Lord's prayer (which in reality is John chapter 17) teaches a kingdom that has not yet come to this very day (contradicting Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10, 1 Peter 2:3-9)

Etc.

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Everything before that death was Old Testament under the Old Covenant Law of Moses.

This does not indicate that the New Covenant New Testament Grace was not preached during that time. Obviously it was preached. Prophetically. As that which was about to come but had not yet come.

"At hand" Mark 1:15

"Is near" Luke 10:9

The Tanakh itself contains prophecies about the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34 being the most obvious) with various prophetic pieces to the puzzle (Genesis 3:15, Deuteronomy 18:15-19, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12, Daniel 9:25-26, Micah 5:2, Zechariah 6:12-13, virtually the entire life of the patriarch Joseph, etc etc).

Further evidence that Jesus' teaching was about the Law almost entirely in the Sermon on the mount was in the passages he referred back to what was written / said in the past Matthew 5:21, 27, 33, 38, 43 with his corresponding comment "but I say..." in Matthew 5:22, 28, 34, 39, 44. 

Jesus was giving his divine commentary on he Law.

Still further is the contrast between the commands and ordinances of the Law of Moses (Deuteronomy 15:5 / Deuteronomy 28:58) versus the Grace of Christ which is devoid of works of any kind to achieve (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Matthew 6:14–15 (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Or...

Matthew 5:27–30 (KJV)
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

This is Law and not Grace!

Observe:

John 3:16–18 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

See the difference in the comparisons of these two verses:

Under the Law:

Matthew 6:14–15 (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Under Grace:

John 16:27 (KJV)
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Finally, Jesus dispelled the notion that works salvation or even works sustaining is bogus:

John 6:27–29 (KJV)
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Once we believe in the genuine Jesus Christ, we are no longer under Law (Galatians 3:24-25) and we are saved by God and sustained by God (John 10:27-29) even to the point that if necessary to preserve our salvation God will take us from this world (1 Corinthians 5:5). And if any are able to forsake or walk away from salvation... they were never truly saved to begin with (1 John 2:19).

Each and every one of us are called to individual ministry as priests of God (Revelation 1:6 / Revelation 5:10 / 1 Peter 2:3-9) so it's not that we are to just get saved and do nothing for the Lord or his Gospel (Matthew 28:19-20). But this has nothing to do with sustaining or losing our salvation.

And those who blur the lines between the New and Old Testament only try to enslave believers with their false doctrines or to rob them of money or freedom.

While there are benefits from the Be attitudes, as there are from the dietary laws, they are OLD Covenant ordinances not NEW.

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

That puts the dividing line between Covenants (when the Old ended and the Nw began) at:

• Matthew 27:50
• Mark 15:37
• Luke 23:46
• John 19:30

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

As is tradition almost universally, placing that dividing line between Malachi 4 and Matthew 1, is to wrongly divide the word of  truth producing legalistic heresies and insecure salvation... from these false doctrines flee!

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Michael37 said:

(Gal 4:8)  But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.
(Gal 4:9)  But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
(Gal 4:10)  You observe days and months and seasons and years.
(Gal 4:11)  I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.

I am wondering why you are not posting with clarity. 

What are you trying to say? And what the posted scriptures are saying? 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

11 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

OK, back to that again... one can live in sin and still go to Heaven!
You can't have it both ways!

If you tell people it's not possible to lose your salvation and that we all still sin... then this is a stumbling block to believers and makes people think it's no big deal to go out and do some sin... just don't let the pastor find out!

The wages of sin is still death which is separation from the Lord.  When one sins, if they don't confess and forsake their sin (admit it and quit it) then they will not go to Heaven.

Ezekiel 18:20 (see Romans 8:13)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Ezekiel 18:26,27
When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Romans 8:13  
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The record is playing bro, but the needle seems stuck.................... (of course I'm speaking of myself)