Where is deliverance?

[Neighbor]

Righteousness, Justification, and Sanctification- there are several threads on these boards at any given time on these three words; but what of deliverance from sin to righteousness? Seems to me that without deliverance there is but emotion without understanding, perhaps much emotion without real salvation; the emotion  of a tearful confession of sin,  the emotion of a water baptism, various "events" yet none are deliverance.

Deliverance is from the Holy Spirit  “You were slaves of sin,” , “you became slaves of righteousness.” 

[AnOrangeCat]

4 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Righteousness, Justification, and Sanctification- there are several threads on these boards at any given time on these three words; but what of deliverance from sin to righteousness? Seems to me that without deliverance there is but emotion without understanding, perhaps much emotion without real salvation; the emotion  of a tearful confession of sin,  the emotion of a water baptism, various "events" yet none are deliverance.

I tend to feel like people overcomplicate those topics, but you raise a good point on deliverance. Periodically people ask if Judas repented, and it seems relevant to the topic. Only God knows where his heart was but going by the text alone we see someone who took his own life out of a sense of guilt. That's a big thing. We don't see him crying out to God for mercy. Seems like an illustration of the sort of thing you describe. Or as Jesus put it someone who hears and rejoices for a time but the seed lacks depth to its soil and doesn't last.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

37 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

Only God knows where his heart was but going by the text alone we see someone who took his own life out of a sense of guilt.

Sadly those that destroy their own body... God destroys them as they are murderers (self murder)

Jesus said all murderers will have their part in the lake that burns with fire (Revelation 21:8)

He also said thru the Apostle Paul that if one destroys their body, He will destroy them (1 Corinthians 3:17)


 

[Mr. M]

55 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Deliverance is from the Holy Spirit  “You were slaves of sin,” , “you became slaves of righteousness.” 

You have answered well the question "by whom comes deliverance."

To answer "where is deliverance" is an excellent and available study.

Ephesians 4:23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 

24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God,

in true righteousness and holiness.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death,

but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing

that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into

captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

[Neighbor]

A little more on deliverance, as it pertains to affliction and feeling held back  and becoming even depressed while awaiting deliverance(s).  

From one of my favorite resources:

..."Dear friends, I am anxious to pass on to the third point, for time is flying fast; but I cannot neglect the application of what I have said. I beg those of you who are sad and despondent to notice the truths I have advanced. I want you to believe that your present affliction is for your enrichment. You will come out of this Egypt with much profit of grace. “Let me out,” cries one, “only let me out.” I pray you, be not impatient. Why rush out naked, when a little patience will be repaid with silver and gold? If I were labouring in Egypt, and heard that it was time for me to start for the land of Canaan, I should be eager to be gone at once; but if I found that I must be hindered for an hour or two, I should certainly utilize the delay by disposing of my lands, and endeavouring to get together treasures which I could carry with me. The delay would not be lost time. Therefore, beloved friend, if you cannot at once obtain comfort, make good use of your affliction. Be always more earnest to profit by your trials than to escape from them. Be more earnest after the heavenly silver and gold than about hurrying away from the scene of conflict and temptation."

Excerpt of presentation by Rev. Charles Spurgeon obtained through Spurgeon.org

"your present affliction is for your enrichment" Isn't it awesome that with thinking, praying and real effort under guidance of God, each of us may make excellent use of the time granted each  of us even while under afflictions.

[Mr. M]

42 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

"your present affliction is for your enrichment" Isn't it awesome that with thinking, praying and real effort under guidance of God, each of us may make excellent use of the time granted each  of us even while under afflictions.

2 Corinthians 4:

16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 

18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

[TheBlade]

I may be miss understanding sorry. Take "but what of deliverance from sin to righteousness?" is not this already done? Maybe again I could have got it wrong not what MR M was saying? I have been delivered set free chains gone I am righteous. We can also just believe GOD OT "ever one that calls on the name of the lord shall be delivered". Christ was raised up so all anyone has to do is look at Him so to speak like OT serpent lifted up they looked at it and were healed.  

[Dennis1209]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:54 AM, AnOrangeCat said:

I tend to feel like people overcomplicate those topics, but you raise a good point on deliverance. Periodically people ask if Judas repented, and it seems relevant to the topic. Only God knows where his heart was but going by the text alone we see someone who took his own life out of a sense of guilt. That's a big thing. We don't see him crying out to God for mercy. Seems like an illustration of the sort of thing you describe. Or as Jesus put it someone who hears and rejoices for a time but the seed lacks depth to its soil and doesn't last.

Hello AnOrangeCat,

I am not going to write a long diatribe on Judas Iscariot. It is fascinating to note Judas Iscariot and THE Antichrist have a relationship. The only two people in the Bible are said NOT to be a “son of Perdition” but “THE son of Perdition.”

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

OT scripture fulfilled: Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

It is also interesting to note the first prophecy in the Bible:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Could these be the same persons? Something else is said of Judas that no one else is spoken of, that he might go to his own place.

Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

To his own place (εἰς τον τοπον τον ἰδιον [eis ton topon ton idion]). A bold and picturesque description of the destiny of Judas worthy of Dante’s Inferno. There is no doubt in Peter’s mind of the destiny of Judas nor of his own guilt. He made ready his own berth and went to it.^[1]

PERDITION: ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ (s. ἀπόλλυμι; Demades [IV b.c.]: Or. Att. II 52 p. 313 in the sense ‘loss’; later writers; ins, pap, oft. LXX, pseudepigr., Philo, Jos., Ar., Just.; Mel., P.).

                •              Those destined to destruction are υἱοὶ τῆς ἀ. J 17:12;

                •              The Lawless One is also υἱὸς τῆς ἀ. 2 Th 2:3. ^[2]

 

 

---

^[1] Robertson, A.T. Word Pictures in the New Testament. Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933. Print.

^[2] Arndt, William et al. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature 2000: 127. Print.

[AnOrangeCat]

3 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Could these be the same persons? Something else is said of Judas that no one else is spoken of, that he might go to his own place.

Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

To his own place (εἰς τον τοπον τον ἰδιον [eis ton topon ton idion]). A bold and picturesque description of the destiny of Judas worthy of Dante’s Inferno. There is no doubt in Peter’s mind of the destiny of Judas nor of his own guilt. He made ready his own berth and went to it.^[1]

This is interesting stuff. As a teenager I heard someone put forth the theory based on the term the son of perdition. The verses in the OT are new to me though. Thanks for sharing!

[Neighbor]

5 hours ago, TheBlade said:

I may be miss understanding sorry. Take "but what of deliverance from sin to righteousness?" is not this already done? Maybe again I could have got it wrong not what MR M was saying? I have been delivered set free chains gone I am righteous. We can also just believe GOD OT "ever one that calls on the name of the lord shall be delivered". Christ was raised up so all anyone has to do is look at Him so to speak like OT serpent lifted up they looked at it and were healed.  

Hi, The statement was referring to discussions about and the definitions of the words. Deliverance, Righteousness, Justification, Sanctification. I was and am encouraging  including deliverance in the  mix as they get compared and contrasted both as used in the Old Testament and the New Covenant. As example the word sanctification is used in the Old testament as simply being set aside for a purpose of God, a Holy purpose or used for a holy purpose. Whereas sanctification in the New Covenant gets discussed as though  it is a process, one that continues on within the born again Christian.

 I am interested in discussion of the four words, and learning nuances of their meanings, as understood by  individuals here on the WCF.