The Dynamic Duo

[Dennis1209]

I have some thoughts on the verse below that I will omit. How do you interpret what Jesus is saying here:

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Every Bible translation I checked has these false Christs and false prophets in plural form, meaning there will be more than one of each. To my knowledge, there have never been false Christs and false prophets showing great signs and wonders throughout history. Much less deceiving the very elect, if possible. So, this is the future.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

As recorded during the Tribulation, the False Prophet (singular) will do miracles in the sight of the beast (singular).

Had Jesus stated, “For there shall arise a false Christ, and a false prophet,” there would be no question of the meaning. I picture this as many showing great signs and wonders.

Do you have any thoughts about the grammar and context? Is Jesus strictly speaking about the dynamic duo empowered by Satan?

Here is a hint at what I am thinking: Is there anything recently out of the ordinary that has been officially disclosed by global governments, kept secret, and now acknowledged with official investigations and reporting requirements?

 

[NConly]

ok

Edited October 7, 2023 by NConly
of no interest to op

[AnOrangeCat]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have some thoughts on the verse below that I will omit. How do you interpret what Jesus is saying here:

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I feel like it's both past and future from our perspective. We don't have perfect knowledge of history at our disposal. Maybe there have been great signs and wonders, some of them entirely fraudulent. We do know that there have been some huge false doctrines throughout history, like the Gnostic sects and heresies. The Albigensian Crusade alone is said to have killed hundreds of thousands of people who followed Gnostic teachings. That's a lot of people led astray and just one sect among many. Arguably the RCC isn't any better. Without singling anyone in particular out I think some televangelists could fit the bill when the healings they perform are staged affairs or a strong instance of placebo.

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Here is a hint at what I am thinking: Is there anything recently out of the ordinary that has been officially disclosed by global governments, kept secret, and now acknowledged with official investigations and reporting requirements?

This would be aliens/UFOs by my estimation. They seem to enjoy occasional spikes in popularity/publicity. I'm neutral on them but it is interesting how often they go hand in hand with new age beliefs.

[FJK]

Nihil novi sub sole.

Maybe we should know what time is when we talk of past and future, maybe time is not a "when" but a "where".

Heavenly mysteries don't always translate into human language and are not easily understood in human thinking.

 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

This would be aliens/UFOs by my estimation. They seem to enjoy occasional spikes in popularity/publicity. I'm neutral on them but it is interesting how often they go hand in hand with new age beliefs.

That is a fact; UFOs and new-age beliefs go together. Could we call our governments and educational institutions “new agers,” basing all science and education on Darwin with their atheist views?

But, here recently, there has been an unprecedented spike in publicity. When global governments and officials suddenly announce the UAP phenomenon is real and poses a national security and aviation threat, my spiny senses perk up.

Years ago, while studying this phenomenon, writing about it, and making some speculations and assumptions, my article was rejected as a “conspiracy theory” by such Christian websites as Rapture Ready. Fast forward to today, their website (and so many more) is plastered with what I wrote about. What changed between then and now?

At least consider this thought: We will have a New World Order (one world government) in the foreseeable future. There must be a commonality that will unite nations, individual people, and the entire planet together for a common good or goal. It surely is not climate change, disparity of classes of people or nations, or global peace, I would not think. An external event such as ET's arrival or an impending significant asteroid impact would probably unify the globe. I propose the former for several biblical and fill-in-the-blank reasons (speculation).

In the end times, deception will be so prevalent that Jesus warns us about deception four times alone in Matthew chapter twenty-four. Today, millions of people all over the globe are witnessing signs and wonders, some quick on the draw with their cell phones and recording. I wonder how these UAPs make immediate right-angle turns at hyper speeds, easily outrun and maneuver the fastest fighter jets and rockets, and plunge without slowing into the earth or water disappearing. These visual and recorded facts are indisputable. I can imagine governments and militaries licking their chops for this technology.

I have mentioned this several times before; I have wondered how governments will explain away the sudden disappearance of millions of people, with an exceedingly high number of sudden nuclear, plane, train, automobile, and other disasters coinciding simultaneously.

Christians are now labeled everything from a basket of deplorables to domestic terrorists. They claim we are the problem of all our global ills. Intolerant, divisive, non-inclusive, disparaging, judgmental, bigoted, with our rejection of abominations and lawlessness.

I suppose by now, you see where I surmise this possibly might be heading. I also mentioned the scientific theory of panspermia has gained widespread popularity in the genetic DNA evolutionary field.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

As the Holy Spirit indwells each believer, collectively called the church of Christ. When the Rapture of the church happens, what better explanation can there be than the ETs removing the problems hindering unity and peace?

To throw in an adage at no extra charge: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and begins to quack like a duck, it ain't no Casper the friendly ghost.  LOL

[Starise]

22 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have some thoughts on the verse below that I will omit. How do you interpret what Jesus is saying here:

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Every Bible translation I checked has these false Christs and false prophets in plural form, meaning there will be more than one of each. To my knowledge, there have never been false Christs and false prophets showing great signs and wonders throughout history. Much less deceiving the very elect, if possible. So, this is the future.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

As recorded during the Tribulation, the False Prophet (singular) will do miracles in the sight of the beast (singular).

Had Jesus stated, “For there shall arise a false Christ, and a false prophet,” there would be no question of the meaning. I picture this as many showing great signs and wonders.

Do you have any thoughts about the grammar and context? Is Jesus strictly speaking about the dynamic duo empowered by Satan?

Here is a hint at what I am thinking: Is there anything recently out of the ordinary that has been officially disclosed by global governments, kept secret, and now acknowledged with official investigations and reporting requirements?

 

While I believe there will be more of it in the end times, I have seen fakes all over the place who sometimes even fool true believers. I could name names.

[TheBlade]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:22 AM, Dennis1209 said:

I have some thoughts on the verse below that I will omit. How do you interpret what Jesus is saying here:

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Every Bible translation I checked has these false Christs and false prophets in plural form, meaning there will be more than one of each. To my knowledge, there have never been false Christs and false prophets showing great signs and wonders throughout history. Much less deceiving the very elect, if possible. So, this is the future.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

As recorded during the Tribulation, the False Prophet (singular) will do miracles in the sight of the beast (singular).

Had Jesus stated, “For there shall arise a false Christ, and a false prophet,” there would be no question of the meaning. I picture this as many showing great signs and wonders.

Do you have any thoughts about the grammar and context? Is Jesus strictly speaking about the dynamic duo empowered by Satan?

Here is a hint at what I am thinking: Is there anything recently out of the ordinary that has been officially disclosed by global governments, kept secret, and now acknowledged with official investigations and reporting requirements?

 

This made me laugh. Well if you knew me and those just believers "grammar".. ooh yeah. Most of you have no clue some in the background like me wish pray to talk, speak ohh.. I dream. Anyway for me what He's talking about has not cannot happen yet since there seems to be something right now in the world that has all power all authority over the enemy. But when He/it is taken out of the way, not taken out but just get out of my way so to speak then he the lawless ones comes out in the open doing lying wonders no man has ever seen. By no man I mean after Christ came. Before Christ came Satan was out in the open. 

If one just heads on over to Youtube you can find what Christ foretold happening. There are so many with "God/Christ told me to tell you". To come over here and hear from JESUS! Its everywhere and the "many prophets" today wow. So for me this ride is about to stop and I get off going up

[Revelation Man]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:22 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Every Bible translation I checked has these false Christs and false prophets in plural form, meaning there will be more than one of each. To my knowledge, there have never been false Christs and false prophets showing great signs and wonders throughout history. Much less deceiving the very elect, if possible. So, this is the future.

 

I think the reason the translators did this is its mentioned in vs. 6, vs. 11 and vs. 24 in varied ways. When one looks at the actual word origins the false christ can really only be one since we all know there is one Messiah foretold, but since verses 4-6 is speaking about 70 AD and many false christs the Pharisees put forth to save them from Rome, and thus in vs. 24 we see it translated as christs also, when this below is how the word is described.

#5580 ψευδόχριστος pseudochristos {psyoo-dokh'-ris-tos}

 from G5571 and G5547; TDNT - n/a; n m
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

 1) a false Christ (or Messiah)
 2) one who falsely lays claim to the name and office of the Messiah
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From G5571 and G5547; a spurious Messiah:—false Christ.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

#5580.
ψευδο´χριστος
pseudochristos; from 5571 and 5547; a false Christ or Messiah:—
NASB - false Christs(2).
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

=================================

#5578 ψευδοπροφήτης pseudoprophetes {psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace}

 from G5571 and G4396; TDNT - 6:781,952; n m
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

 1) one who, acting the part of a divinely inspired prophet, utters
    falsehoods under the name of divine prophecies
 2) a false prophet
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From G5571 and G4396; a spurious prophet, that is, pretended foreteller or religious impostor:—false prophet.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

#5578.
ψευδοπροφη´της
pseudoprophētēs; from 5571 and 4396; a false prophet:—
NASB - false prophet(4), false prophets(7).

—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation — All rights reserved — http://www.lockman.org
 AV - false prophet 11; 11

prophet (SIGNIFYING SINULAR MEN)
Acts 13:6. Revelation 16:13; 19:20; 20:10.

prophets (SIGNIFYING MULTIPLE MEN)

Matthew 7:15; 24:11, 24. Mark 13:22. Luke 6:26. 2 Peter 2:1. 1 John 4:1.
—Exhaustive Concordance (KJV Translation Frequency & Location)

So, the false Christs seem to really more or less also refer to one man, but because verses 4-6 is talking about multiple different men in the plural and the Pharisees tried to force many Messianic figures to the fore, fulfilling John 5:43, the translators also saw vs. 24 as Multiple men or in a plural manner, when imho, it is of course just one man, the Anti-Christ being spoken about. We know it will only be one Little Horn or Man of Sin. 

The false prophet word used seems to be used for both singular and multiple men (in the plural) at varied times as seen in the verses just above. In Acts 13:6, Rev. 16:13, Rev. 19:20 and Rev. 20:10 its a singular man/person. In Matt. 7:15 and the other verses shown above it seems to mean multiple false prophets, so the word can indeed be and is used in both ways, in a singular fashion and in a plural fashion via multiple men. So, we have to objectively figure out which it is, again, since vs. 11 speaks of False Prophets also (the ones who killed the Disciples) and its mentioned there and in vs. 24, my guess is the translators went with the plural meaning, when we know its really just ONE False Prophet. 

On 10/6/2023 at 11:22 AM, Dennis1209 said:

As recorded during the Tribulation, the False Prophet (singular) will do miracles in the sight of the beast (singular).

Had Jesus stated, “For there shall arise a false Christ, and a false prophet,” there would be no question of the meaning. I picture this as many showing great signs and wonders.

So, I think the word used is singular, but was translated as plural. He's talking in verse 24 about ONE MAN (The Anti-Christ) and ONE MAN (The False Prophet) not many, we can't allow translators to shift our understanding of these two men. Satan gives them their seats and powers. 

In Rev. 13 we see the Dragon gives the Beast his seat and his power, then we are told this below later on in the chapter........

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast (singular also) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

So, we can put it together by using many passages, its just one Little Horn (E.U. President imho) and a False Prophet (a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus imho) gone rogue, whom Satan gives miracle powers unto, which may just be "TRICKERY" like during the plagues on Egypt. 

That's my take. I think its just one man in each case.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Revelation Man