The “anti-Christ”

[Shilohsfoal]

15 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I was quite specific when I mentioned (maybe twice) that the Jews had already been destroyed by 70 AD - approximately 400 years BEFORE the little horn would come to full power. 

 

 

So your saying the Pope doesn't fulfill the prophecy concerning the little horn persecuting the Jewish saints in Israel?

 

This persecution,

Daniel 11:33-35

“Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

12 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

To be quite truthful I am undecided on a lot in the book of Daniel and Revelation, I only compare things until something clicks in for me here or there gathering pieces I might be able to later put together  but I don't have a particular stand on either yet.

Just remember ,Daniel is being told what shall happen to his people in the latter days.Its not about the world.

 

Daniel 10:14

Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

[Charlie744]

Just now, Shilohsfoal said:

So your saying the Pope doesn't fulfill the prophecy concerning the little horn persecuting the Jewish saints i Israel?

 

This persecution,

Daniel 11:33-35

“Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

No, I am not saying that... you think I am saying that because of the way you have interpreted Daniel.

Why do you limit these verses to the Jews... the Jews were effectively eliminated in 70 AD... there would be another 1950 years after that period of time. The little horn would come to power (let's use 500 AD), so for over 1500 years he has been persecuting EVERYONE AND ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THEM OR WOULD NOT BOW TO THEIR SUPREMECY. 

You seem to focus ONLY on the Jews that defines this "persecution."  NO! They have attacked ANYTHING OR EVERYONE THAT IS OF GOD. The Jews still have not (corporately) accepted the Messiah. So these verses are telling us the little horn will go against anything of God. 

 

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, Charlie744 said:

No, I am not saying that... you think I am saying that because of the way you have interpreted Daniel.

Why do you limit these verses to the Jews... the Jews were effectively eliminated in 70 AD... there would be another 1950 years after that period of time. The little horn would come to power (let's use 500 AD), so for over 1500 years he has been persecuting EVERYONE AND ANYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THEM OR WOULD NOT BOW TO THEIR SUPREMECY. 

You seem to focus ONLY on the Jews that defines this "persecution."  NO! They have attacked ANYTHING OR EVERYONE THAT IS OF GOD. The Jews still have not (corporately) accepted the Messiah. So these verses are telling us the little horn will go against anything of God. 

 

 

 

Because the prophecy is about the Jews.Thr prophecy you are trying to interpret is about Daniels people .It's not about all nations.Its specifically about the persecution of the saints in Israel after the king of the norths armed forces arrive there.

 

 

 

 

Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

[Charlie744]

Just now, Shilohsfoal said:

Just remember ,Daniel is being told what shall happen to his people in the latter days.Its not about the world.

 

Daniel 10:14

Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

I do not believe you completely understand this term - the "latter days." You and billions assume it means the "end of time," but it does not. For the book of Daniel there are, if I can remember correctly, 3 maybe 4 times this phrase is used in the prophecies. 

And remember, this book was written for the Jews, meaning to Daniel, the latter days largely represent the time of the Messiah. If you look at the prophetic verses in say chapter 8 or 9 I think they include this verse. By the way, this answer applies exactly to the other phrase in Daniel (shut up or seal up this book). Meaning, this book, these verses, these chapters are to be sealed / not disclosed, but are completed and they speak to the coming of the Messiah - because the book is written for the Jews. Before the arrival of the Messiah, they will have been fully restored back in Jerusalem and included in the Tanakh would be this book of Daniel. It is then this book would be "opened" if you will, so they could read, study and interpret the coming of their Messiah. That is also why the latter chapters in Daniel are only written in Hebrew - they are meant to be read and studied by the Jews only. (They are not end time phrases).

However, there is this same phrase used  - I believe in chapter 12 that DOES mean the end of days. But the  book of Daniel was written for the Jews and the coming M3essiah - not something to be kept shut or sealed until the end of time.

 

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Because the prophecy is about the Jews.Thr prophecy you are trying to interpret is about Daniels people .It's not about all nations.Its specifically about the persecution of the saints in Israel after the king of the norths armed forces arrive there.

 

 

 

 

Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

So you think the prophecy is ONLY about the Jews? Did the world end after the Cross? Did the world end after 70 AD? Did any of the prophetic verses speak of the coming church and its corruption? Did God predict the coming of the little horn after the fall of pagan Rome? Did the 4th beast kingdom end? 

[Shilohsfoal]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I do not believe you completely understand this term - the "latter days." You and billions assume it means the "end of time," but it does not. For the book of Daniel there are, if I can remember correctly, 3 maybe 4 times this phrase is used in the prophecies. 

And remember, this book was written for the Jews, meaning to Daniel, the latter days largely represent the time of the Messiah. If you look at the prophetic verses in say chapter 8 or 9 I think they include this verse. By the way, this answer applies exactly to the other phrase in Daniel (shut up or seal up this book). Meaning, this book, these verses, these chapters are to be sealed / not disclosed, but are completed and they speak to the coming of the Messiah - because the book is written for the Jews. Before the arrival of the Messiah, they will have been fully restored back in Jerusalem and included in the Tanakh would be this book of Daniel. It is then this book would be "opened" if you will, so they could read, study and interpret the coming of their Messiah. That is also why the latter chapters in Daniel are only written in Hebrew - they are meant to be read and studied by the Jews only. (They are not end time phrases).

However, there is this same phrase used  - I believe in chapter 12 that DOES mean the end of days. But the  book of Daniel was written for the Jews and the coming M3essiah - not something to be kept shut or sealed until the end of time.

 

Actually Daniel is being told what shall happen to his people concerning the little horn .How the little horn persecutes his people.

Daniel 10:24

Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

 

The conversation continues through Daniel 12.

In Daniel 11:33-35,the persecution of the saints in Israel by the little horn is more detailed .

This persecution.

 

 

Daniel 11:33-35

“Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

According to Daniels des ription of the persecution of the saints in Israel ,this persecution lasts untill the time of the end.Jesus also spoke of this persecution in the gospel of the saints in Israel and said they would be persecuted throughout Israel till he comes.

 

Do you believe the Pope will go to Israel and persecuted the saints throughout the cities of Israel till Jesus comes?

 

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

Jesus spoke of this persecution in his Olivet discourse as well.

[Shilohsfoal]

8 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

So you think the prophecy is ONLY about the Jews? Did the world end after the Cross? Did the world end after 70 AD? Did any of the prophetic verses speak of the coming church and its corruption? Did God predict the coming of the little horn after the fall of pagan Rome? Did the 4th beast kingdom end? 

The prophecy concerning the little horn and the persecution of the saints in Israel ,is about Daniels people as Daniel was told.

 

Daniel 10

Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

 

 

It's not about the world trade center falling .

[WilliamL]

19 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

The majority of academics, scholars, interpreters, and followers of the Scriptures contend there IS A LITERAL ANTI-CHRIST actor or figure that will come onto the scene in the near future. 
 

There is a very small number of folks that believe there is NO SUCH EVIL FIGURE, but there is certainly the “SPIRIT OF THE ANTI - CHRIST that has been around since the cross and will continue until the end. 
 
Unless I am mistaken, the literal mention of the word “anti-Christ” is only found in 1st and 2nd Peter, and they speak of the “spirit” and not a literal person.

If that is true, then where do we find this “anti/Christ” person in the Scriptures and when does he arrive?

It is my thought that there is NO such person but there is the “little horn” that is clearly revealed in Daniel 7,8, 9 and 11 (but he is not ever identified as the “anti-Christ.” 
 

So, can someone please explain the verses showing he is a real person/individual?

Thanks. 

There will be no "the antichrist." There will be (and have been, and are) many antichrists. 

20. “The Antichrist” Myth

Debunks a number of false presumptions about “The Antichrist” that are taught in modern-day churches. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1150-the-antichrist-myth/

[Shilohsfoal]

This prophecy concerning the little horn persecuting the saints  is about what befalls Daniels people as Daniel was told.This is entirely about Israel.

 

²⁴ And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

²⁵ And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

²⁶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

²⁷ And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

The little horn is the Israeli government which will persecuted the saints in Israel for 3.5 years because those saints won't worship the Israeli government ,it's kingdom.or take it mark .Those saints will be persecuted in every Israeli town for testifying of Christ before the great day of the Lord is come.They are watchmen sounding the alarm as they have been instructed to do.After their persecution the kingdom is totally destroyed by fire and then given to those saints for an everlasting possession.That is the promise God made to Abraham.

This prophecy concerning the little horn is entirely about the little country called Israel and the saints in that country.The persecution begins after the king of the north gives the Israeli government an army.An army full of evangelicals and is becoming more evangelical by the day but they will get their orders from the Israeli government.

 

 

 

 

⁸ And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

⁹ But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

¹⁰ Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

¹¹ And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

¹² But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake