Daniel 7

[Marilyn C]

17 hours ago, douggg said:

 

 

Islam will be reduced to nothing in the Ezekiel 39 Gog/Magog event.

 

Hi douggg,

That is not quite correct there bro. Only the Shite side of Islam will side with Russia.

The Sunni side of Islam -

Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Omar, Yemen and Saudi Arabia,       (10 - 10 kings)

- will all come under the A/C. 

[douggg]

6 hours ago, Stormy Monday said:

You quoted one verse that doesn't specify anything about Rome, and I don't believe your take on Revelation 17. I'll debunk that in another thread.

"Five fallen - one is"    Who was the "one is" king ?   The seven kings are associated with that seven mountains place in verse 9.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[Sister]

On 2/4/2024 at 1:33 PM, Marilyn C said:

1. Napoleon wars - British Empire arose. The emblem of the Lion refers to a Monarchy and that is the only great power there that has that. The wings broken off refers to America breaking away, but still working in together.

`It was made to stand on two feet like a man; and the spirit of a man was given it.` (Dan. 7: 4) 

Hi Marilyn

The prophesy came during the days that Babylon was ruling.  The kings to come were directly after Babylon.  The British Empire did not exist then.  You are putting the past way into the future.

After the Lion (Darius the Mede), the Bear is mention (4th King of Persia) the last Persian king ruling with the Mede's at the time of their end.

The next King to come after them was Alexander of the Grecians.

 Daniel 7:6   After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Alexander's Kingdom of Greece was divided by his four generals after his death.  Much later, out of one of them, but not in Greece's power,.... out of one of the 4 territories, Rome formed after this.

The British Empire came  after Rome collapsed.  Rome ended where the legs finished.  The feet of iron mixed with clay would be where The British Empire would exist, and not where the Arms and breasts of silver stand on the Dan 2 image.  All has to harmonise nicely so that we can say these scriptures are true, and not a muddled up mess.

 

Edited February 5, 2024 by Sister
grammar

[Marilyn C]

14 hours ago, douggg said:

"Five fallen - one is"    Who was the "one is" king ?   The seven kings are associated with that seven mountains place in verse 9.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

Yes, the `mountains` are symbolic (as is the woman) for the leaders of the Global Government. `7 heads,` are 7 rulers who rule one at a time till the A/C.

[Marilyn C]

7 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

The prophesy came during the days that Babylon was ruling.  The kings to come were directly after Babylon.  The British Empire did not exist then.  You are putting the past way into the future.

After the Lion (Darius the Mede), the Bear is mention (4th King of Persia) the last Persian king ruling with the Mede's at the time of their end.

The next King to come after them was Alexander of the Grecians.

 Daniel 7:6   After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Alexander's Kingdom of Greece was divided by his four generals after his death.  Much later, out of one of them, but not in Greece's power,.... out of one of the 4 territories, Rome formed after this.

The British Empire came  after Rome collapsed.  Rome ended where the legs finished.  The feet of iron mixed with clay would be where The British Empire would exist, and not where the Arms and breasts of silver stand on the Dan 2 image.  All has to harmonise nicely so that we can say these scriptures are true, and not a muddled up mess.

 

Hi Sister,

As Stormy has rightly pointed out Daniel was prophesying the future for Babylon was already there.

The great beasts come up one at a time and rule contemporaneously, (all at the same time). Note the 4th beastly great power treads down the others. Rome couldn`t do that because some had already gone - judged by God. 

Finally, the first three great beasts are in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership in Israel. They will have their power taken away but continue on for a time. This can`t be in the past.

[Wayne222]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

As Stormy has rightly pointed out Daniel was prophesying the future for Babylon was already there.

The great beasts come up one at a time and rule contemporaneously, (all at the same time). Note the 4th beastly great power treads down the others. Rome couldn`t do that because some had already gone - judged by God. 

Finally, the first three great beasts are in the time of the Lord setting up His rulership in Israel. They will have their power taken away but continue on for a time. This can`t be in the past.

I agree with you. It’s not the past.

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Yes, the `mountains` are symbolic (as is the woman) for the leaders of the Global Government. `7 heads,` are 7 rulers who rule one at a time till the A/C.

The seven mountains are a place.

The seven heads (kings) are associated with that place.    Five of the kings associated with that place had already fallen.

The woman turned harlot, influenced by Babylon the Great - the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels - who has persecuted the saints, is the Vatican in Rome.

Which the Vatican/RCC has worldwide influence.

-------------------------

the 7 kings - Caesar family, rulers over the Roman Empire.

the woman - the Vatican

the seven mountains place - Rome

mystery Babylon the Great - the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels

 

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

I agree with you. It’s not the past.

The book of Daniel is all about the restoration of God’s people after their continued disobedience and idolatry against God. 
 

God would not only use this actual restoration of His people, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the walls and the streets, the Sabbatical cycles, all the Levitical ceremonies and the 7 Feast days, which were ALL removed or destroyed by the Babylonians, but would design His plan of restoration (literal) within the structure of the 4 kingdoms in His prophecy to reveal His plan of salvation for the Jews and ALL mankind (Cross).

From chapter 1 to 12, the historical events and its actors and its prophecies are written about and for the Jews. 
 

Meaning ALMOST ALL of Daniel speaks from Babylon in 606 BC to approximately 500 AD (the coming of the little horn of Daniel after pagan Rome is slain and its body is destroyed. Then, this little horn will continue until the end where he will be destroyed without human hands. 
 

The book of Daniel and most of the events and actors take place WITHIN THESE 4 kingdoms, however, the true or real thread to follow is not a secular thread such as the 4 literal kingdoms, but God’s most important prophecy that begins and ends WITHIN this period (606 BC to approximately 500  AD)—- which is the 70 weeks of years prophecy. 
 

This is THE most important / unbelievable prophecy that God would give to mankind to reveal the coming of the Messiah (which of course took place in the 1st century of pagan Rome (4th beast kingdom). 
 

The 70 weeks of years prophecy would begin DURING the 2nd kingdom of the Medes-Persia in 457 BC and it would come to an end 490 years later in 33/34 AD. 
 

It is within these 490 literal years where the most unbelievable events would occur on the earth. Daniel is ALL about the prophecy of the coming Messiah, His death, His plan of salvation, the beginning of His church, the appropriation of His church by the little horn UNTIL the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled, and God will once again perform a divine act and remove the blindness from the eyes of His people. Then, for the last 3.5 years before His return, the Jews will preach the Word of God and the Testimony of their Messiah, Jesus. This is a time when there will be great tragedy and tribulation- father against son, mother against daughter, brother against brother, nation against nation, etc. 

It will be a time when EVERYONE will / MUST decide to follow the worship and teachings of the little horn (papacy and the false teachings) or the true uncorrupted Word of God and  the Testimony of Jesus. 
 

Everything in Daniel is focused around n the coming Messiah—- what could possibly be more important than Him? The 490 year prophecy concludes with the last 7 years being “set aside” by God for His Son to arrive and complete the restoration of everything as a result of the Babylonian destruction. 
 

The first piece of furniture taken away was the Srk of the Covenant by Jeremiah so the Babylonians would not obtain it. Then, everything was destroyed or taken away. 
 

But the 70 weeks of years prophecy was Gods plan to restore everything in the reverse order they were taken or destroyed. 
 

Everything WAS literally completed by the end of the 483 rd year of the 490 years (everything was fulfilled by the end of the 69th week . Everything within these 69 weeks were a responsibility of the Jews to fulfill and complete.). But the 70th week was set aside by God so the very last piece of furniture could be restored- on the first day of the 70th week, Jesus was anointed and baptized in the Jordan - He is the only One who could serve to restore the presence of God (ARK) in the Sanctuary. 
 

Independent of MY own interpretations on Daniel, which are mostly completely at odds with today’s accepted interpretations, you might ask yourself if God is not writing about the coming of His Messiah, His sacrifice on the cross, His plan to bring ALL His children back with Him in the Garden, by the ONLY MEANS AVAILABLE TO US, then where and when does God speak to these most important and unbelievable coming events in the history of mankind?

1) Do you really believe that “he” in 9:27 is not referring to “HE?”

2) Do you really believe the covenant mentioned is anything other than the one He will die for to confirm our only way to salvation?

3) Do you really think the 7 years is referring to a 7 year covenant, or the appropriate translation is the “covenant” just happens to be confirmed DURING the last 7 years of the 70 weeks of years prophecy?

4) Do you really believe that chapter 11 has been placed in the book of Daniel to speak (almost entirely), about a few no bodies that would come AFTER the death of Alexander (still WITHIN the 3rd kingdom), or an absolute minor individual like Epiphanies coming some 150 years after the end of the 3rd kingdom and BEFORE the beginning of the 4th kingdom when ALL THESE PROPHECIES WILL OCCUR?

Chapter 11:1-4 identifies the 2nd and 3rd kingdoms and immediately places them in the rear view mirror. Verse 11:5 begins IN PAGAN ROME speaking about the events that would take place DURING the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy- the arrival of the Messiah through the coming of the little horn near the end of chapter 11. 
 
Chapter 12 gives us a 30,000 foot view of the true end times. 
 

BUT THERE IS NOTHING IN DANIEL THAT HINTS, REFERS TO, prophecies about:

an anti- Christ figure,

a 7 year tribulation period at the end of time, 

Islam, Muslims, the EU, the USA, China, Turkey, etc. These verses were given to the Jews to read, study and await their coming Messiah. 
 

They certainly had NO understanding, thoughts, beliefs or prophecies other than their coming Messiah.

Everything they would need for this most spectacular event could be found in the Scriptures. They had no consideration for an “anti/Christ” figure or their Messiah coming as a man who would be crucified… it is one thing for the Jews to not accept Jesus as their Messiah, but it would ONLY BE THE COMING CHRISTIAN CHURCH HEADED BY THE PROPHESIED LITTLE HORN OF DANIEL 7,8, 9 and 11, who would totally corrupt His Church AND design the “futurist” interpretation in the 16th century that attributed these verses in Daniel (especially chapter 9), to someone or something other than Jesus. 
 

Look for the Messiah and His plan of salvation and restoration WITHIN these 4 kingdoms- that is the story in Daniel. The 4 kingdoms are NOT THE STORY. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

The seven mountains are a place.

The seven heads (kings) are associated with that place.    Five of the kings associated with that place had already fallen.

The woman turned harlot, influenced by Babylon the Great - the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels - who has persecuted the saints, is the Vatican in Rome.

Which the Vatican/RCC has worldwide influence.

-------------------------

the 7 kings - Caesar family, rulers over the Roman Empire.

the woman - the Vatican

the seven mountains place - Rome

mystery Babylon the Great - the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels

 

 

 

 

douggg, the `woman sits on 7 mountains.` That is a symbolic picture. You can`t take one part as symbolic and the other as real. `The woman is sitting on a beast.` That is the symbolic picture and `the 7 heads are 7 mountains,` is just a bit more detail of the symbolism.

Heads in scripture symbolize leadership. Thus 7 heads are 7 leaders who rule consecutively over the Global Government.

As to the Vatican, they as well as the other false religions of the world and everybody else are ALL under the UN`s philosophy of `mother Earth.` If you don`t abide their moral values you will be put in jail. No one goes to jail for disobeying the Pope. 

[douggg]

55 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

douggg, the `woman sits on 7 mountains.` That is a symbolic picture. You can`t take one part as symbolic and the other as real. `The woman is sitting on a beast.` That is the symbolic picture and `the 7 heads are 7 mountains,` is just a bit more detail of the symbolism.

Marilyn, the woman "sitting on 7 mountains" is not literally a woman large enough to sit on 7 literal mountains - I agree.

But the 7 mountains themselves are literal because they identify a location.

The 7 heads are not 7 mountains in verse 10 - but there are 7 kings associated with that place where the woman sits.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The place where the woman sits is Rome.  

--------------------------------------

The woman in verse 1 also sits on many waters - which are the peoples and nations of the world.

--------------------------------------

verse 1 - the woman sits on many waters

verse 3 - the woman is sitting on a scarlet colored beast - having 7 heads, 10 horns

verse 6 - the woman drunk on the blood of saints, martyred Christians.

verse 9 - the woman sits on 7 mountains

verse 16 - the ten horn kings destroy the woman with fire.

All of which point to the Vatican being burned to the ground at the time of king 8, the beast-king.

Edited February 6, 2024 by douggg