God's historic national rods of His wrath, discipline and purification of Israel and what that may portend.

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

In 1500 B.C., which empire did God use to refine Israel? 
Egypt—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 722 B.C., which empire took the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel captive? 
Assyria—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 586 B.C., which empire took the Southern Kingdom of Judah into captivity? 
Babylon—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 539 B.C., which empire began its rule over the Jewish exiles? 
Media-Persia—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 187 B.C., which empire ruled during the Macobean Revolt? 
Greece—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 70 A.D., which empire destroyed Jerusalem?
Rome—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

Which nation nearly conquered the entire world and killed six million Jews during WW2? 
Germany—arguably the most powerful nation on Earth at that time. (Certainly in Europe.)

Which nations has God consistently used to discipline and purify Israel since its inception? 
The most powerful nations on Earth.

Which nation will give rise to the Antichrist, who will be God's instrument of wrath and discipline against Israel in the coming years?
The most powerful nation on Earth.

Which nation is the most powerful on Earth?

Edited April 2 by Jonathan Dane

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

I will try to answer individual points or questions (perhaps two or three). I cannot reply to someone's entire systematic eschatology. It is not practical. Feel free to leave it, but please don't require me to respond. No offense.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

America, discipline and purify Israel?

Israel, who is Jacob, is scattered all over the world and considered to be strangers in the land of Israel.

They have forgotten who they are, and are oppressed in the land.

"the stranger that is within you shall get up very high above you
he shall lend to you and you shall not lend to him"
Deuteronomy 28:43-44

Strangers and Esau rule in Israel for now.

"...foreigners entered into his gates
and cast lots for Jerusalem,
even you (Esau) were as one of them"
Obadiah 1:11

"But you should not have gloated over your brother
in the day that he became a stranger"
Obadiah 1:12

"You should not have entered into the gates of my people"
Obadiah 1:13

"You should not have stood in the crossroads"
Obadiah 1:14

"The day of the Lord is near"
Obadiah 1:15, 21

 

"all the men of thy confederacy have forced you even to the border
the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee,
they that eat thy bread have laid a trap for you
and there is none aware of it"
Obadiah 1:7

But

I have laid a trap for you
and thou are also taken Oh Babylon
Jeremiah 50:24

O thou that dwells on many waters,
abundant in treasures,
thine end is come,
and the measure of thy greed.
Jeremiah 51:13

Call together against Babylon
the nations of Ararat Mini and Ashchenaz
Jeremiah 51:27

 

 

 

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

4 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

America, discipline and purify Israel?

Israel, who is Jacob, is scattered all over the world and considered to be strangers in the land of Israel.

They have forgotten who they are, and are oppressed in the land.

"the stranger that is within you shall get up very high above you
he shall lend to you and you shall not lend to him"
Deuteronomy 28:43-44

Strangers and Esau rule in Israel for now.

"...foreigners entered into his gates
and cast lots for Jerusalem,
even you (Esau) were as one of them"
Obadiah 1:11

"But you should not have gloated over your brother
in the day that he became a stranger"
Obadiah 1:12

"You should not have entered into the gates of my people"
Obadiah 1:13

"You should not have stood in the crossroads"
Obadiah 1:14

"The day of the Lord is near"
Obadiah 1:15, 21

 

"all the men of thy confederacy have forced you even to the border
the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee,
they that eat thy bread have laid a trap for you
and there is none aware of it"
Obadiah 1:7

But

I have laid a trap for you
and thou are also taken Oh Babylon
Jeremiah 50:24

O thou that dwells on many waters,
abundant in treasures,
thine end is come,
and the measure of thy greed.
Jeremiah 51:13

Call together against Babylon
the nations of Ararat Mini and Ashchenaz
Jeremiah 51:27

 

 

 

You forgot one:

22“Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GOD: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. 23And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. 24I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.a 28You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine upon you. 30I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations. 32It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel. (Ezekiel 36:22-32)

[Who me]

The answer is no nation will change Israel but God himself will change them.

Ezk 36:24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws

 

It is not one physical nation but a spiritual nation made up of believers.

[Shilohsfoal]

I believe the saints in Israel are given into the hand of the Israeli government to be persecuted.Imprisomed and killed.It takes place after the United States armed forces begin e its occupation of Israel on the Israeli governments behalf. The Israeli government will still be in control of Israel during this time.

 

Daniel 11:33

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.
 

 

The beast doesn't not relinquish power in his own kingdom after he receives the second beast.The second beast is doing exactly what the first beast wants.

 

 

Revelation 13

¹⁰ “If anyone is to go into captivity,
    into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed^[c] with the sword,
    with the sword they will be killed.”^[d]

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

 

¹¹ Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. ¹² It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It's like the Sanhedrin asking Rome's soldiers to kill Christ.Israels leaders still decide who is imprisoned and killed.The king of the norths armed forces just do as they are told.

 

Mark 14:64

Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
 

Edited April 2 by Shilohsfoal

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

11 hours ago, Who me said:

It is not one physical nation but a spiritual nation made up of believers.

So, Ezekiel was a false prophet? (See his quote above in comments.)

It is one thing to say that God will act spiritually in the hearts of Israel. That is true. But it is a leap of logic to conclude that Ezekiel's words are merely "spiritual language" not meant to communicate something "physical." This idea does not originate from Scripture but Gnosticism, as taught by Origen in the 3rd century.

Edited April 2 by Jonathan Dane

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I believe the saints in Israel are given into the hand of the Israeli government to be persecuted.Imprisomed and killed.It takes place after the United States armed forces begin e its occupation of Israel on the Israeli governments behalf. The Israeli government will still be in control of Israel during this time.

 

Daniel 11:33

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.

And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.
 

 

The beast doesn't not relinquish power in his own kingdom after he receives the second beast.The second beast is doing exactly what the first beast wants.

 

 

Revelation 13

¹⁰ “If anyone is to go into captivity,
    into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed^[c] with the sword,
    with the sword they will be killed.”^[d]

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.

 

¹¹ Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. ¹² It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.

 

Could be.

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

I posted something similar on a social media site, which will go unnamed just in case it violates policy here. I was asked a question to which I answered (provided below).

Question: This is a pretty good post. But I have a question. How is the United States tied with the ancient Roman Empire? In Daniel chapter 9, it says that the people of the Prince to come will destroy the temple. The ancient Roman Empire did this. The ancient Roman Empire did split into 2 parts, and Turkey was a part of it. I can see the anti Christ being Islamic. But I wondering how the United States can be tied with the ancient Roman Empire.

My response: Excellent question. And the answer is not simple.

I believe things are going to change geopolitically over the next few years. For starters, I think the days of the presidency in this country are limited. I don't say that Donald Trump is going to be re-elected. I say he is going to return to power. Whether that is through an election or some other means remains to be seen.

I think it is likely that he remains in power in this country, but that that power will extend out from there, especially into Europe and the Middle East.

Revelation 12:2 says, "2The beast I saw was like a leopard, with the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority."

It is a conglomerate beast made up of the kingdoms that precede it: Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. (Cf. Daniel 7:4-6)

Daniel 7:12 says, "As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was removed, but they were granted an extension of life for a season and a time."

So, whatever this power is, it appears to be a melting pot of sorts. That's interesting, considering that our currency has stamped on it "e pluribus unum" (out of many - ONE).

Regarding the United States, what is our motherland? Great Britain. And Great Britain was part of the Roman Empire. She is our mother lion and we are her cub.

Jeremiah 51 is a judgment of Babylon. And Revelation 18 mentions a nation that comes to power: "Mystery Babylon." "Mysteries" in scripture are things that were previously unknown. For example, apostle Paul frequently uses the phrase, "I show you a mystery..." meaning that he was speaking new revelation to them. Whatever this Babylon is, it was unknown in a time that John wrote the book of the Revelation.

With the above in mind, there's an interesting verse that stands out in Jeremiah 51:

"They shall roar together like lions;
they shall growl like lions’ cubs." (Jer. 51:38)

No doubt, this verse has historical implications. But is it limited to history? That's the $46,000 question. It may have a double application. And I believe it does.

This also fascinates me. Why is it when you go to places like England and observe governmental buildings, you see architecture that aligns with the period when they were built. But when you go to Washington DC, what do you see? Architecture from the time of the Roman Empire.

Mysteries are naturally intriguing. And this subject never disappoints.

Edited April 2 by Jonathan Dane