The gathering of the Lords people

[AdHoc]

34 minutes ago, luigi said:

Hello AdHoc,

From what I read in your statement, it appears you believe "all Jews in the land of Israel", will at the end of the age be forgiven for their sins. If so, your perspective contradicts faith, and is based on flesh inheritance. Your perspective also contradicts what the Lord clearly states in Isaiah 65, where those who are called Jews to whom the Lord stretches out His arms all day for them to recognize Him, but do not (Isaiah 65:1-2);--will upon the Lords return be slain (Isaiah 65:15). Not saved as you claim.

Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name (a Christian nation). 2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3 

Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

You did a masterful job of ducking every one of my objections. So let's try another direction in answering yours.

Israel, or the Jews (if you wish) have two Covenants with God. The one of Promise made with Abraham and his seed, and the one made with Jacob's seed at Sinai. In which Covenant (scripture please) is FAITH required. In the one made with Abraham the Jews' part is circumcision, and in the Covenant of Sinai, keeping the Law is required.

How can my perspective contradict Isaiah 65 when I gave Daniel 12:1-2 as proof that even the SLAIN are returned to their Land? How can my perspective be against Isaiah 65 when in the Valley of dry bones, "the WHOLE house of ISRAEL" (v.11) is resurrected and united in their Land. Are not these the "baddies". Their sins are what got them deported to other nations. And what FAITH is required in verse 23 to "cleanse all Israel"?

Let's join together and count how many times God said He would forgive Israel with no mention of conditions except to return to Him. I'll start:

 25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. (Is 43:24–25)

 

 

[RdJ]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

Another thing I will point out;-- although it is really rather kindergarten.

Around the time of Isaiah, circa the 8th century BC, 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel who had sinned were expelled from the land of Israel. What do you think happened to these individuals? Answer: They were assimilated into the nations. With the exception of some indigenous peoples of the world; everyone today has some of these 10 tribes in them.

But this is beyond the point, and is the kindergarten part, that everyone here should already be aware of. I would rather be an Eskimo, or any other indigenous person, who hasn't one drop of any of the 12 tribes of Israel blood; but am in my heart circumcised with Christs Way, than being a 100% full blood Jew, who is not circumcised in heart with Christs Way, whom when the Lord returns, He will slay; while His servant indigenous peoples without one drop of Jewish blood, will be rewarded (Isaiah 65:15; Revelation 11:18).

Isaish 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Yeah but Isaiah 65 is not about the endtime. That's about the generation that lived when Jesus was on earth. The endtime, that's the remnant that gets saved. 

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:29‭-‬36 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.23.29-36.NKJV

 

 

 

[luigi]

29 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

You did a masterful job of ducking every one of my objections. So let's try another direction in answering yours.

Israel, or the Jews (if you wish) have two Covenants with God. The one of Promise made with Abraham and his seed, and the one made with Jacob's seed at Sinai. In which Covenant (scripture please) is FAITH required. In the one made with Abraham the Jews' part is circumcision, and in the Covenant of Sinai, keeping the Law is required.

How can my perspective contradict Isaiah 65 when I gave Daniel 12:1-2 as proof that even the SLAIN are returned to their Land? How can my perspective be against Isaiah 65 when in the Valley of dry bones, "the WHOLE house of ISRAEL" (v.11) is resurrected and united in their Land. Are not these the "baddies". Their sins are what got them deported to other nations. And what FAITH is required in verse 23 to "cleanse all Israel"?

Let's join together and count how many times God said He would forgive Israel with no mention of conditions except to return to Him. I'll start:

 25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. (Is 43:24–25)

 

 

The Jews who turn from doing wrong, and become circumcised in their hearts into believing in doing right, the Lord shall forgive. This is the same for every individual. The Lord does not discriminate, and is not a respecter of persons (Romans 2:11).

Inversely then, the Jews who do not turn from doing wrong, and remain uncircumcised in their hearts into believing in doing right, the Lord shall not forgive. Just like the Lord will do so for every other individual who is not circumcised in heart.

Would the Lord not be preferential to the Jews, and a respecter of their hereditary, if He did otherwise?  

 Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

You are correct, Paul does include believers calling them Gentiles. But then again, Paul also calls believers as true Jews who are circumcised in heart, while Paul also calls physically circumcised Jews who are not circumcised in heart, as not real Jews (Romans 2:28-29). 

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Yes it's not enough to just be Jewish by birth, but because it's now the endtime and after centuries He brought them back to Israel the ones who live when Jesus comes back will all get saved, because of the fathers. Imagine you're Abraham and God says Isaac is the chosen one and then thousands of years later: oh they were nasty to Me so now the offspring from Ishmael are the chosen ones. No. The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Edited April 24, 2024 by RdJ

[luigi]

5 minutes ago, RdJ said:

Yeah but Isaiah 65 is not about the endtime. That's about the generation that lived when Jesus was on earth. The endtime, that's the remnant that gets saved. 

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:29‭-‬36 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/mat.23.29-36.NKJV

 

 

 

In Isaiah 65:17, the Lord states that He creates new heavens and a new earth, where the former world under Satan is no longer remembered, nor come into mind. So yes, Isaiah 65 is about the end times.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 

[RdJ]

6 minutes ago, luigi said:

The Jews who turn from doing wrong, and become circumcised in their hearts into believing in doing right, the Lord shall forgive. This is the same for every individual. The Lord does not discriminate, and is not a respecter of persons (Romans 2:11).

Inversely then, the Jews who do not turn from doing wrong, and remain uncircumcised in their hearts into believing in doing right, the Lord shall not forgive. Just like the Lord will do so for every other individual who is not circumcised in heart.

Would the Lord not be preferential to the Jews, and a respecter of their hereditary, if He did otherwise?  

 Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Yes plus take all the promises that He brings them back and all Israel gets saved. That combined means they all will get saved.

[RdJ]

1 minute ago, luigi said:

In Isaiah 65:17, the Lord states that He creates new heavens and a new earth, where the former world under Satan is no longer remembered, nor come into mind. So yes, Isaiah 65 is about the end times.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 

It just jumps a few thousand years further like it's one event. One of the reasons it's hard for them to see Jesus as Messiah.

[luigi]

2 minutes ago, RdJ said:

Yes plus take all the promises that He brings them back and all Israel gets saved. That combined means they all will get saved.

Your perspective negates Isaiah 65, which states the Lord will slay those to whom He has been stretching out His arms to all day long to observe Him, but who continuously ignore Him. 

[RdJ]

Just now, luigi said:

Your perspective negates Isaiah 65, which states the Lord will slay those to whom He has been stretching out His arms to all day long to observe Him, but who continuously ignore Him. 

He has slain them in 70AD and afterwards for 2000 years they have been scattered and persecuted and now is the time that the remnant gets saved in the time of Jacobs trouble from which he will be saved. In the trib God is going to judge the nations that persecuted Israel, not Israel. The woman gets a safe place in the desert where she will be fed 3,5 years.

[luigi]

1 minute ago, RdJ said:

He has slain them in 70AD and afterwards for 2000 years they have been scattered and persecuted and now is the time that the remnant gets saved in the time of Jacobs trouble from which he will be saved. In the trib God is going to judge the nations that persecuted Israel, not Israel. The woman gets a safe place in the desert where she will be fed 3,5 years.

In the end times, the Lords wrath will fall upon those who have persecuted the circumcised in heart Israel during the 3.5 times (1,260 days) tribulation period. This Israel are the gathered believers from the four corners of the earth, which will include a remnant of full blood Jews.