When was Satan cast out of heaven down to the earth?

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

Confirming a covenant is different than making a covenant  or peace treaty. In order to confirm anything it has to already been established or promised

But who is confirming the covenant with many for One Week??  And Why does he stop sacrifice and offering and the set up the A/D??  Why does Jesus in Matt 24 say when you see this A/D flee to the mountains, how dreadful those days will be.  All future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

Hitler had no power whatsoever to give. He was a minion of the adversary, a mere puppet. 

Luke 4:5 - Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.  6 And the devil said to Him, "All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.

I mean if everyone would follow Christ satan would have zero power. Now he has power to kill people and do other evil, working through people who let him.

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

The “so called”unfulfilled 7 or 3.5 years in Daniels prophecy is the beginning or errors.  The second error of that doctrine comes in by not knowing “when”the 1,260 day prophecy “begins,” which is when the AOD was set up in 70 ad.  If they don’t know when it begins, then how can they know when it ends?

It (A/D) never got set up in 70 AD, The Temple burned beforehand.  Jerusalem was under siege.

2 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

The timeline of the 70 week prophecy was “finished” after Christ was crucified, that is when the Testament came into “force” by the death of the Testator. The AOD which happened 40 years or so later has nothing to do with the 490 year timeline shown in Daniels 70 week prophecy.

The problem is the A/D is set up midweek, and not post 70th Week.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Charlie744]

42 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

But who is confirming the covenant with many for One Week??  And Why does he stop sacrifice and offering and the set up the A/D??  Why does Jesus in Matt 24 say when you see this A/D flee to the mountains, how dreadful those days will be.  All future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv, if you do not mind, I would like to address your comments regarding the 70 weeks of years prophecy found in Daniel 9. Because of length, I will respond with a post to you for each of the 4 verses separately.

This is my response for 9:24 (does not include the supporting word for each of the 6 requirements identified in verse 24:

Daniel 9:24

²⁴Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

In the following verses (9:24–27), Gabriel will address the restoration of Jerusalem and the necessary worldly and physical elements that need to be completed before the end of the 69th week. However, the most crucial part of Gabriel's prophecy will focus on the final week, as described in the mareh vision. This final week involves six specific requirements that must be fulfilled and can only be accomplished by the coming Messiah. These requirements are the final steps necessary to complete His plan of salvation, aiming to spiritually restore humanity back to the state of the Garden of Eden. This restoration will occur through the Jews and in His holy city. The sacrifice of the Jews, through their unbelief, enabled the Messiah—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—to be given to the world. This plan was set in motion from the beginning.

The Jews had no choice in this matter. There is simply no way we deserve His sacrifice on the cross; there is no way we can repay the sacrifice of the Jews.

Verse 24 is a key restorative verse that consists of three parts. It establishes the duration of the prophecy in Chapter 9 as seventy weeks of years, or 490 literal years. This prophecy is directed at Daniel’s people and their city, the Jews and Jerusalem. Within this final week set aside in the prophecy, six specific elements or requirements that the Messiah will fulfill are revealed to Daniel. These four verses (24–27) outline the external and internal borders and boundaries, with a fixed duration for the prophecy. Just as the metal-man image in Chapter 2 has a defined structure, Chapter 9 presents a defined "time" structure. Within each of these timed sections, Daniel reveals the actors, events, and missions that will be fulfilled.

24a-70 weeks are determined

24b-for your people and your holy city

Gabriel begins the Lord’s interpretation by telling Daniel that seventy weeks (weeks of years, or 490 years) are determined for his people and his holy city. This introduction sets the stage for the prophecy by establishing a clear timeframe and focus. To understand why God has Gabriel start the prophecy this way, it's helpful to reflect on earlier chapters of Daniel—specifically chapters 2, 7, and 8. In those chapters, the Lord provided dreams and visions in two parts: first the dream sequence, followed by a more detailed interpretation sequence. Therefore, it might be appropriate to approach Chapter 9 in a similar fashion.

In the first two verses (24a and b), Gabriel outlines the external borders or boundaries for this prophecy. He defines the "time" boundary as seventy weeks. Unlike Chapter 2, which describes four physical kingdoms, Chapter 9 reveals three separate yet consecutive time periods of 7, 62, and 1 week, making up the 70 weeks. This structured approach helps Daniel and future readers to understand the prophecy in a clear and organized manner.

Within this period, Daniel will record both the restorative and destructive events / verses that are specifically meant for the Jews. Consequently, when the Jews return to Jerusalem, the visions—the chazon and the mareh, as well as the Chapter 9 prophecy—will no longer be "shut up" or "sealed." These prophecies are intended for the Jews to read, study, and interpret along with the rest of the messianic prophecies found in the Tanakh before the coming of their Messiah. This means that the prophecies are meant to be understood and interpreted by the Jews in preparation for the Messiah's arrival. The clear timeline and detailed events provided in these prophecies would serve as a guide for them to recognize and understand the fulfillment of God's plan for their salvation and restoration. By setting these boundaries and focusing on the specific timeframes, Gabriel ensures that the prophecies are accessible and comprehensible to those for whom they were intended.

From a literal perspective, every article of the sanctuary must be restored; the temple would need to be rebuilt along with the city and its walls. The Jews would return from Babylon and reinstate their holy ceremonies, practices, and seven holy festivals. They would restore their way of life as it was before the Babylonian destruction, completing everything in the reverse order in which it was dismantled. There is a definite purpose for dividing these seventy-weeks-of-years into three distinct sections: seven weeks (49 literal years), sixty-two weeks (434 literal years), and the final period of one week (7 literal years). Each section will have its own mission of restoration, and God will ensure everything is in place before the Messiah arrives to be baptized in the Jordan.

Consequently, the final article—the Ark of the Covenant, which was the first article taken away by Jeremiah from the Holy of Holies—would be the last piece of furniture to be restored in the Temple. It would be restored on the first day of the seventieth week of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy, symbolizing the return of the Ark of the Covenant (Messiah) to its rightful place. God did not permit the Babylonians to take away the Ark of the Covenant, and similarly, He did not allow man to take the life of the Messiah. In John 10:17–18, Jesus states:

¹⁷Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. ¹⁸No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Certainly, the restoration encompassed not only the physical items—the temple, the city, the vessels, and so on—but also the spiritual aspects. This included restoring the sabbatical cycles: the weekly Sabbath, the seven-year sabbatical cycle, the Jubilee cycle, and the Great Jubilee cycle, all perfectly timed. God orchestrated this entire restoration within one amazing and interconnected plan, symbolically recreating the beginning of the world. He restored all the physical elements, placed His people back in their holy place, and planned its entire completion in preparation for His arrival. Everything was ready, and God arrived precisely on time. His first day marked the beginning of the seventieth week of Daniel’s prophecy. Everything was now restored to how it was in the beginning, with God once again among His people.

God had designed His plan of salvation for all of mankind. It was designed so that salvation would come through the Jews. But Israel did not go to the ends of the earth preaching the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to the Gentile nations, but kept Him to themselves. When their Messiah arrived, they rejected Him. But despite this terrible transgression, salvation would still come through the Jews, but He would send His Holy Spirit to each and every one who has placed their faith in the Messiah, Jesus. God's plan of salvation, while designed to be fulfilled through the Jews, extended beyond the immediate timeline. Although Jesus fulfilled His mission as outlined in Daniel 9:24-27 and established His kingdom on earth, its complete realization awaited His return to the Father and His second coming. This means that instead of an immediate and complete fulfillment, God implemented an already, but not yet, plan of salvation that would continue for another 2000 years.

But do not be too concerned; God certainly knew this would happen and constructed His plan of salvation accordingly, aware that His people would reject Him as their Messiah. Remember, since this was His plan from the foundation of the world, we can be assured that the Jews had no choice in this matter. They are not Christ killers; they are not the enemy. Rather, it was (and still is) through their sacrifice that we were brought into His plan of salvation. The Jews were just as blinded to the coming Messiah as Daniel was. Can you possibly understand the price Israel has paid so that we can be saved?

[Charlie744]

46 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

But who is confirming the covenant with many for One Week??  And Why does he stop sacrifice and offering and the set up the A/D??  Why does Jesus in Matt 24 say when you see this A/D flee to the mountains, how dreadful those days will be.  All future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv, here is a partial section of a discussion for verse 25.

Daniel 9:25

²⁵Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

25a-Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem

Verse 25a provides the start of the clock when this prophetic event will take place. This is one of the "timed" external borders found within this prophecy. It represents the time of the arrival of the Messiah, the Prince. When the command is given to restore and build Jerusalem, there will be a period of seven weeks (49 prophetic years) and sixty-two weeks (434 prophetic years), for a total of sixty-nine weeks (483 prophetic years). On the first day of the seventieth week, the Messiah would arrive to be baptized in the Jordan. This is the beginning of His ministry, which will last 3.5 years until He is “cut-off” (crucified). So, when was this decree given?

Unfortunately, most commentators are not in agreement on when this decree was given, and there are some who disagree on who is giving it. Some contend the one issuing the decree is Cyrus; consequently, they would start their prophetic clock around 538/7 BC. Others claim it represents a decree issued by Darius (not Darius the Mede but Darius the Persian) in 419 BC, but few have accepted this. But the majority finds that the one who would issue this decree is Artaxerxes, the Persian king who would come to power in 465 BC. However, the controversy would continue since he would issue two separate decrees: Artaxerxes would issue a decree in 457 BC (recorded by Ezra in 7:7-8) and another in 454 BC (recorded by Nehemiah 2:1–17). There is no shortage of supporting work for either of these dates, and each group feels their interpretation should stand. Perhaps there is another approach that will move the needle to one side or the other.

So, we might want to start from the beginning—not the beginning of either of the two dates of Artaxerxes decrees, but before the start of these proposed starting dates.

Daniel's 70 Weeks (490 years) gives a major clue that God determines and measures the redemptive history of Israel in cycles of 70*7=490 years. In particular, it defines the last of these cycles as running from the Ezra Decree to restore Jerusalem (458/7 BC) to Messiah's sacrificial atoning Death and Resurrection (AD 33). Matthew 18:21-22 also implies there is something special about 70*7 = 490: “Peter came and said to Him: “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him: “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to SEVENTY times SEVEN (70 x 7 = 490). From this passage, we see that 490 is the amount of FORGIVENESS. Thus, the cycle of 490 years can be seen as a Forgiveness cycle (70*7 years) as well as a Great Jubilee cycle (10*49 years).

Both concepts agree in emphasizing God’s Mercy and Grace, so that we would expect these Great Forgiveness cycles to start and end with great national ‘Jubilee’ events of forgiveness, release and restoration. We would expect the intervention of God at these times in grace and power, forgiving the past, restoring them and giving them a new start. Thus, this Great Jubilee would seal off the previous 490 years, and then open up the new cycle of 490 years.

THE HISTORY OF ISRAEL - ITS FOUR GREAT JUBILEE CYCLES

These 490-year cycles are indeed confirmed in the history of Israel. Israel had a national Jubilee every 490 years. The outpouring of grace at these times demonstrated God’s forgiveness of the past and His blessing for the future. Thus, God has marked the very structure of time with the revelation of the Jubilee: Forgiveness and full Salvation through the Blood of the Atoning Sacrifice (Leviticus 25). God set apart 4 distinct units of 490 years, and determined these four Great Jubilee cycles to form the backbone for Israel’s history. He fulfilled His purpose through these cycles:

1. Abraham to Exodus,

2. Exodus to Dedication of Solomon’s Temple,

3. From the Dedication of Solomon’s Temple to Artaxerxes decree to restore and build Jerusalem in 457 BC,

4.  And finally, the fourth and last Great Jubilee from Artaxerxes decree to the last week in Daniel’s 70 weeks of years prophecy totaling 490 years.

(New Book: Daniel’s 70 Weeks, Appendix 6: Israel’s 490 Year cycles Oxford Bible Church, Pastor Derick Walker).

As a result, Pastor Walker determined there were 560 literal years from the dedication of Solomon’s Temple to Artaxerxes decree in 457 BC. This was comprised of two separate time elements: the ten Jubilee cycles of 49 years (490 years) and the 70 years the Jews were in captivity in Babylon, which would be considered unreckoned years and would not be counted towards the Great Jubilee cycle. Therefore, it would take 560 literal years before God would accept or count the required 490 years to complete the third Great Jubilee sabbatical cycle. Consequently, the end of the third cycle would become the start of the fourth cycle in 457 BC (Artaxerxes’ decree).

There may also be another approach to tackle this contested issue. But it would start with a comment based on the work of a second-century BC Seder, Olam Rabbah, stating the first temple stood for 410 years until its destruction by Nebuchadnezzar in 587/6 BC. If correct, this means Solomon’s Temple would have been dedicated around 996 BC (587/6 plus 410 literal years). Consequently, the third Great Jubilee cycle would still need an additional eighty years (490–410) at the time of the Babylonian destruction before the 490-year period (ten 49-year cycles) was reached to complete the third Great Jubilee cycle.

There was a total of 49 years from 587/6 BC, the year Nebuchadnezzar physically destroyed the Temple, until Cyrus issued his decree allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem in 538/7 BC. These represent the number of years the Jews were not in the land of Israel; the Temple was physically destroyed. These years would not be counted towards the Jubilee cycle. Thus, the required number of years to complete the third Great Jubilee cycle would still be short by 80 years. However, the Jews would return to their land after Cyrus’ decree in 538/7 BC, and in exactly eighty years, Artaxerxes would issue his decree in 457 BC. This would reconcile the 490-year requirement between the second and third Great Jubilee cycles and begin the fourth and final Great Jubilee sabbatical cycle. Now, Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years (490 literal years) would begin in 457 BC and end in 33 AD.

And to add another layer of support to the 457 BC start date for the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle, we will find Ezra’s reading of the law in the month of Tishri, 445–444. This would represent the end of the second seven-year sabbatical cycle after their return to Jerusalem. Consequently, if we were to add back two seven-year sabbatical cycles totaling fourteen years, it would bring us back to the 458/7 BC date of the Artaxerxes decree.

25b-until Messiah the Prince There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. The street shall be built again, as shall the wall, even in troublesome times

In 25b Gabriel provides Daniel with the timing of the coming of the Messiah, the Prince. This is unambiguous and can only refer to the coming Messiah, Jesus after the completion of these 69 weeks of the prophecy. These verses (9:24-27) are messianic, but they include both restorative and destructive verses. These verses are more than controversial, so it might be appropriate to unpack them in the same manner as in Chapters 2, 7, and 8.

It is clear that God has presented His prophecies in two distinct parts: a dream sequence and an interpretation sequence. Similar to the depiction of the four kingdoms in the metal-man image, the three sections of time in Daniel’s seventy weeks of years prophecy (7 weeks, 62 weeks, and 1 week) each have their own specific actors, events, and purposes. These sections align with the kingdom prophecies in Chapters 2, 7, and 8, suggesting that the three time periods are literal, consecutive, and uninterrupted. This structured approach highlights the orderly nature of the prophetic timeline, showing how each segment unfolds according to God's plan and purpose. There are no gaps or pauses between any of these prophetic sections. The specific language in Daniel 9:24, stating that the seventy weeks are "for your people and your holy city," further supports this consecutive timeline, emphasizing the continuity of events related to the Jewish people and Jerusalem. Considering that both the people and the city faced destruction in 70 AD, it reinforces the prophecy's continuous nature up to its fulfillment. However, there will be a slight departure from this pattern in the final week (7 years), although it will not alter the literal events scheduled to occur within these 490 years. This aspect will be explained in more detail later on.

In verse 25b, Gabriel provides Daniel with two interpretation-like verses. The first confirms the rebuilding of Jerusalem, specifying that its walls and streets will be completed within the initial timed section of the prophecy, spanning the first seven weeks (49 literal years) from 457 BC to 408 BC. The second interpretation-like verse pertains to the third timed section of the prophecy, corresponding to the final week (7 literal years). In this last week, Daniel reveals when the Messiah will arrive—on the first day of the start of Daniel’s final week, marking the beginning of His earthly ministry. The Messiah's arrival occurs after the completion of the seven weeks (49 literal years) and the sixty-two weeks (434 literal years), totaling sixty-nine weeks (483 literal years).

Gabriel has outlined the events that will unfold within the two timed prophecies bookending the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy, but notably absent is any mention of the middle section spanning sixty-two weeks, or 434 literal years. There is consensus regarding the events to be fulfilled within the first and third sets of time brackets in the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Much like the dream sequence in Chapter 2, Gabriel delineates the external and internal time boundaries to be adhered to. In Chapter 9, these time markers are similarly emphasized and respected. While the first section of seven weeks, or 49 literal years, is entirely restorative (the physical elements of the restoration of Jerusalem), the third section, or the last week of seven years, is both restorative and destructive.

1. The Messiah will fulfill all six of the elements found in verse 24 (already, but not yet).

2. The Messiah will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings (immediately at the cross).

3. The Messiah will confirm the covenant with His people (immediately at the cross).

4. The city, the sanctuary, and the temple were to be destroyed (in 70 AD).

5. For those of His people who will reject Him as their Messiah, they will experience complete spiritual desolation from their one true God until:

[Charlie744]

49 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

But who is confirming the covenant with many for One Week??  And Why does he stop sacrifice and offering and the set up the A/D??  Why does Jesus in Matt 24 say when you see this A/D flee to the mountains, how dreadful those days will be.  All future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv, here is a partial discussion for verse 26.

 

Daniel 9:26

²⁶And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood. And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

26a-and after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off 26b-but not for Himself

Verse 26 begins the destructive verses within the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy (Daniel 9:24–27). Gabriel informed Daniel the Messiah would arrive after the completion of the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks, totaling 69 weeks (9:25a, b). This means the Messiah will appear at the start of the final week of this prophecy, but, verse 26 also tells us He will be "cut off" after the 62 weeks have ended, but His death will not be for Himself. This verse sets the stage for the culmination of the prophecy, highlighting the sacrificial role of the Messiah. This event marks a pivotal moment in the prophecy, as it underscores the ultimate purpose of the Messiah's mission: to atone for sin and bring reconciliation between God and humanity. The arrival, ministry, and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ all occur within the last week, adhering to the prophetic timeline laid out by Gabriel. This interpretation supports the view that the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy is a continuous, uninterrupted sequence, leading up to and including the Messiah's redemptive work. In 1 John 4:9.

⁹In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.

26c-And the people of the prince who is to come

The “prince who is to come” is a very controversial topic. There are a few different interpretations that have been accepted among the theological community. They identify a "people of the prince" who will play a key role in the physical destruction of the city and the sanctuary, linking the prophecy to various historical or future contexts. Consequently, this prince can be associated with one of three temples:

1. Some interpret the prophecy as being fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple in 70 AD by the Romans, with the "prince" being the Roman general Titus. This view sees the prophecy as having come to fruition shortly after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

2. Others focus on the period following the return from the Babylonian exile, seeing the prophecy in the context of the Second Temple's reconstruction. Here, the "prince" might be a foreign ruler or local leader involved in the historical conflicts of that era. Some have identified him as Antiochus Epiphanes.

3. Most project the prophecy into the future, anticipating a third temple in Jerusalem. In this scenario, the "prince" is often viewed as an end-times figure, such as the Antichrist, who will bring about desolation and destruction associated with future tribulation.

And, once they have identified their prince and the temple that existed or is expected to be rebuilt, it will be easy to identify the people who will be standing behind their respective prince who is to come.

However, there may be another method to determine this “prince who is to come.” owHThere are five verses in Chapter 9 that mention the word prince, Messiah the Prince, or the Messiah (standing alone) that relate to this topic. This analysis will easily identify this "prince who is to come."

1. The word prince is found in 9:6 and 9:8, and both refer to a ruler. They are used generically as a title and not to refer to a unique or specific individual. Neither term comes from the Hebrew word nagiyd (prince).

2. The term Messiah the Prince found in 9:25d is clearly a reference to Jesus, the Messiah. It cannot refer to an earthly king, prince, or ruler, including past patriarchs such as King David or Moses. In this verse, the word prince does come from the Hebrew word nagiyd, and the term "Messiah" means the "Anointed One."

3. The term Messiah (Anointed One) is found alone in 26b (a destructive verse). This refers to the same One mentioned in 9:25d, who comes after the sixty-two-week timed segment. He will be cut off or crucified within the "midst of the week," but not for Himself.

4. And the fifth and final mention is when the word, "prince,” is found in 26c and is used in the phrase, "people of the prince who is to come.” In this verse, Daniel does use the Hebrew word nagiyd to refer to the prince. However, the term "Messiah" is conspicuously absent.

Consequently, we have two verses that clearly convey the "prince" as a ruler (Daniel 9:6, 8) and two verses that, by including the word "Messiah" (Daniel 9:25b and 9:26b), refer to Jesus. One verse combines the term "Messiah" with "prince" (nagiyd), while the other speaks of one who comes after sixty-two weeks and will be "cut off." Notably, in Daniel 9:26b, God does not include the Hebrew word nagiyd (prince) with the word Messiah, as He does in Daniel 9:25d. This omission appears intentional. It may be because in Daniel 9:26b, the destructive verse, God does not see or distinguish Jesus as Messiah the Prince (the restoration verse) as He does in Daniel 9:25b, but rather as Messiah, the sacrificial Lamb of God who has taken on the sin of the world.

It might also be worth examining the terms "city and sanctuary" in both the restorative and destructive verses within Daniel 9:24–27. In the restorative verses (Daniel 9:25c, d), Daniel uses the proper names for both Jerusalem and Messiah the Prince. However, in the destructive verses (Daniel 9:26b, d), he simply refers to "Messiah," and "the city and the sanctuary." Although these verses are referring to the same person and objects, God the Father seems to be revealing a different perspective. He distinguishes how He sees them before and after Jesus takes on the sin of the world. In the book of Matthew 21:12–13, Jesus refers to the Temple as His house, while in Matthew 23:38–39, He refers to it as "their" (His people’s) house after He is rejected and crucified.

¹²Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves.

¹³And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.

³⁸ Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. ³⁹For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

In Daniel 9:26c, the term "prince" is indeed used, and Daniel employs the Hebrew word "nagiyd" to refer to this prince, but he does not pair it with the term "Messiah." This leaves some ambiguity, as the identity of the "prince" (ruler) or "Messiah" is clearly established in four of the five verses in the passage. If God wanted to ensure that the "prince" mentioned in 9:26c was not mistaken for the Messiah, He could have used the same Hebrew word found in 9:6 or 9:8, which unambiguously means a "ruler." This would leave room for various interpretations, as it could refer to anyone with authority or power. Conversely, if God intended to confirm that this "prince" was indeed the Messiah, He could have attached the word "Messiah" to "nagiyd" in 9:26c, as done in 9:25d. This would eliminate any doubt and clearly identify this prince as the Messiah, Jesus.

However, it appears that God deliberately chose the Hebrew word "nagiyd" to distinguish this prince from being identified either as the Messiah Jesus or as a generic ruler. The use of this term seems intentional and meaningful. From a physical perspective, it might seem that this "prince who is to come" should be a military figure like Titus. The following phrase mentions the destruction of the city and the sanctuary, perhaps pointing directly to Titus, the son of Vespasian, who was commanded to deal with the Jewish revolt. In 70 AD, Titus led his army and completely destroyed the city, the temple, the walls, and everything in sight, resulting in the slaughter of over a million Jews and leaving complete desolation. It's important to note that Titus and the Roman army served as instruments of God's judgment, much like other rulers in the previous chapters of Daniel. Nebuchadnezzar was used to destroy the Assyrians, Cyrus to defeat the Babylonians, and Alexander to conquer those nations that had abused and murdered the Jews. Alexander even went on to conquer the known world before his career was abruptly cut short. This pattern of using foreign rulers as tools for divine judgment is consistent throughout these historical events.

There is a more profound interpretation. While the physical destruction of the temple, the city, and the walls is foretold in Scripture and must occur, the spiritual message or prophecy should take precedence within these verses. The "prince who is to come" is seen as exceedingly significant. This "prince who is to come" in Daniel 9:26c is connected to the figure identified in Daniel 8:10–12 and 8:23–25. He is the same as the little horn described in Daniel 7 and 8. The "little horn" represents a powerful, destructive force opposing God's people and His sanctuary. In a spiritual sense, this prince signifies the ongoing struggle against forces that seek to undermine God's plans and His people. This interpretation highlights the spiritual warfare and the ultimate triumph of God's kingdom over these adversarial forces, emphasizing the prophetic and symbolic nature of these passages.

It would be many years until he took full power over pagan Rome, hence "the prince to come" (it would be much later than 70 AD). Pagan Rome would be slain (7:11–12), and the "little horn" would come up to the top of the fourth beast (7:20). Daniel’s seventieth week is far behind us; Jerusalem and its people have been destroyed and murdered by Titus. But the next prophetic period within the three periods of Daniel had already begun. The second period ended at the end of the seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Also, it is the people of this prince who is to come who will destroy the city and the sanctuary, not the prince who is to come. The "people" will destroy the city and the sanctuary, and then this "prince" will come to rule over these people. And that is exactly what took place.

Indeed, these actors and events align with the third time bracket of Daniel's prophecy. Even before the events of 70 AD, the early Christian church was beginning to flourish amidst challenging circumstances that would persist for several centuries. However, the emergence of the "little horn" or the prince who is to come was still in its early stages during this period. This figure, symbolizing oppressive or antagonistic forces against God's people, was yet to reach the full extent of its power and influence. The destruction of Jerusalem and its sanctuary in 70 AD marked a significant historical moment, but it was just one part of the broader narrative foretold in Daniel's prophecies. In Daniel 7:8,

⁸I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them.

God's decision to use the Hebrew term "nagiyd" for the prince who is to come, rather than a term strictly implying a secular ruler like Titus or Antiochus Epiphanes, holds profound symbolism. It suggests that this prince will behave and assert authority in a manner akin to the Messiah—appearing as a divine figure on earth. By refraining from pairing the term "Messiah" or "Anointed" with "prince" (nagiyd), God underscores this distinction and highlights the deceptive nature of this figure's reign. This underscores the spiritual significance and deeper layers of meaning within the prophecy, inviting readers to discern the true nature of this prince and the events surrounding him.

The "little horn" mentioned in the prophecy will attempt to alter religious practices and laws, claiming authority to forgive sins and assuming a divine role on earth. This figure, referred to as the prince to come, is depicted as wielding power over the people associated with the fourth beast, symbolizing papal Rome. By using the term "nagiyd" for this prince, a word typically reserved for the Messiah, God underscores the gravity of this individual's deception and self-proclaimed authority. This same "little horn" mentioned in Daniel 7:23–25, initially emerging among ten horns, now reigns over the Gentile-Christian church, known as papal Rome.

²³Thus he said: “The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all other kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, trample it and break it in pieces. ²⁴The ten horns are ten kings who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, and shall subdue three kings.²⁵He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, shall persecute the saints of the Most High, and shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand.

The rise of the "little horn" mentioned in Daniel 7 and 8 will occur towards the end of the fifth century AD, aligning with the prince who is to come in 9:26c. Despite his aspirations, he will never achieve the status of the "Anointed One" or God incarnate, regardless of his claims and influence. The individuals associated with the prince who is to come, initially part of the pagan Roman army, will later become integral to papal Rome. This connection echoes back to the divided kingdom described in Daniel 2:41, where the strength of the iron persists within the divided kingdom, symbolizing the influence of the people associated with the prince who is to come. Just as Satan rebelled against God in heaven, the little horn will emerge from God's earthly kingdom, the fourth kingdom, to oppose all that is godly. Like the fallen angels who followed Satan, those who align with the little horn will deceive with Scripture, mixing truth with falsehood. This parallels the warning in 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 regarding the little horn's deceitful nature.

[Charlie744]

51 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

But who is confirming the covenant with many for One Week??  And Why does he stop sacrifice and offering and the set up the A/D??  Why does Jesus in Matt 24 say when you see this A/D flee to the mountains, how dreadful those days will be.  All future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv, here is a partial discussion for verse 27.

 

Daniel 9:27

²⁷And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The book of Daniel is not merely a historical account focused on the four kingdoms revealed in Chapter 2. It is the most prophetic book in the Scriptures (Tanakh) that speaks to the coming Messiah and His plan of salvation for the Jews and mankind. He is the main character, and the storyline focuses on man’s salvation. He simply decided to present this within the four kingdoms of His own making. And He is found in every chapter in this wonderful and spectacular writing–you simply cannot miss Him – that is, unless you want to!

Verses 9:24-27 in the book of Daniel undeniably point to the Messiah. However, these verses have also been targeted by the little horn, who seeks to distort their prophetic interpretations and spread a false gospel. These verses, these chapters, this book, and our Scriptures could only have been authored by God. It is only the little horn that would endeavor to corrupt the core of His message and the significance of His sacrifice on the cross, as revealed in these verses. Within these four verses, a few key figures are mentioned: the Messiah, the Jews ("your people"), the people of the prince (those of pagan Rome who will later follow the prince to come, or the little horn), and the many (those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior). It is important to stay true to the Word of God without adding to or taking away from it. This is His blueprint, His story, and His plan of salvation. He alone is the Passover Lamb, the perfect sacrifice, the Anointed One, revealing His unmerited gift within these verses. The "He" in 9:27a refers to none other than the Messiah.

With the exception of Daniel mentioning the “prince of the kingdom of Persia” (10:13) and the “prince of the kingdom of Greece” (10:20), there is no mention of any other malevolent being or anti-Christ figure in the book of Daniel. However, God has devoted significant attention to identifying and prophesying about the “little horn,” who has been a prominent figure for the past 1500 years. This figure is clearly depicted throughout the prophecies—it is hard to overlook him, that is, unless one chooses to do so.

For those unfamiliar with the origins of the “seven-year tribulation” or “gap” theory, it stems from a particular interpretation of Daniel 9:27. This interpretation was devised in the 16th century by the Jesuits of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) as a strategic response to deflect the identification of the papacy as the "little horn" in Daniel 7 and 8. For over a thousand years, since the papacy took power over the fourth beast of papal Rome around 500 AD, it was commonly identified as the little horn. During the Reformation in the 16th century, this interpretation became a focal point of criticism against the papacy. In response, papal Rome introduced the gap theory as a countermeasure to challenge and redirect this prevailing interpretation.

Their initial tactic was to interpret the pronoun “he” at the beginning of Daniel 9:27 as referring to a mystical evil character identified as the “anti-Christ.” However, a thorough examination of all twelve chapters of Daniel reveals no mention of such a character. Instead, the “little horn” is prominently featured, described with no fewer than ten specific characteristics, malevolent traits, the timing of his appearance, and more. These descriptions have historically been attributed to the papacy, fitting every characteristic detailed in the text. In the broader context of biblical literature, there is no single figure explicitly labeled as the “anti-Christ.” While the “spirit of the anti-Christ” is mentioned, particularly in the New Testament, there is no singular actor referred to as the “anti-Christ” in books such as Revelation, Matthew, or John’s Epistles. This suggests that the anti-Christ concept as a solitary, identifiable person does not have a scriptural basis, and interpretations labeling a single actor as such may be influenced by external theological or historical contexts rather than the text itself.

God's identification of the evil entity as the little horn in Daniel enables us to discern this figure within the context of the metaphorical imagery associated with horns, along with the malevolent traits and actions attributed to him. This singular identification allows us to understand the unfolding of his deeds and choices against God and His Kingdom over the course of approximately 1500 years. The specificity of God's prophecy regarding the emergence of the little horn out of pagan Rome provides clarity on the timing and manner of his arrival, extending his influence until the end of time rather than coming into existence at the time of the end as some interpretations suggest. This precision underscores the divine foresight and intentionality behind the prophetic revelations in Daniel.

This entity has indeed skillfully obscured its true identity and shifted the focus away from the designation of the "little horn" ascribed by God in Daniel's prophecies. Instead, it has promoted the idea of a literal "anti-Christ" figure, redirecting attention from the scriptural framework established by Daniel. By reframing the "little horn" as a future, abstract "anti-Christ," this entity has effectively diverted consideration from the historical context outlined in Daniel's visions. As a result, the pronoun "he" in verse 27a has been reinterpreted to align with this imagined character, masking the genuine significance of the Messiah's role in the prophecy. This strategic maneuver has led to an increased emphasis on futuristic scenarios depicted in Revelation and other biblical texts, sidelining the papacy from its rightful identification as the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. And by perpetuating this interpretation (story) long enough over many generations of children and their children, etc., it has legitimized its authority, evaded its accountability and has become today’s accepted interpretation… imagine that!

However, the “he” in 27a is “He,” who will fulfill the six requirements found in 9:24. This is the “He” in 9:25 who would be the final piece (the Ark of the Covenant) of furniture within the sanctuary and who would arrive after the seven and sixty-two weeks have been completed. His arrival will be God’s final piece in the restoration of Jerusalem. This is the “He” in 9:26 who would be “cut off, but not for Himself” after the end of the same sixty-two weeks. And this is “He” in 9:27 who would, as a result of His crucifixion, confirm the covenant prophesized in Jeremiah 31:31-34, for many in the middle of the last week of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Jesus was indeed crucified in the middle of the last seven years of the prophecy. It's also important to acknowledge that interpretations of the remaining prophecies within verse 27 hinge on identifying the individual represented by the pronoun "he" or "He." This critical distinction shapes various interpretations, especially concerning the concept of an intentionally constructed "seven-year tribulation" or "gap theory." While attempts may be made to reconcile these interpretations, they often struggle to align, or fail to address them with the restorative themes present in verses 9:24-25. Nevertheless, verse 27 remains central to discussions surrounding the messianic prophecies of the last week in Daniel's seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy.

The Jesuits' futurist interpretation of the "seven-year tribulation" relies not only on the misinterpretation of "he" in 9:27a but also on several other false teachings and interpretations. Given the centuries-long recognition of the papacy as the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8, they needed to adjust interpretations of additional messianic verses in Chapter 9. This includes verses 27b, c, d, e, and f, where "he" in 27a is construed as referring to a human figure rather than Jesus ("He"). Their next assault is on the term covenant, also found in 27a. The little horn would make the following intentional evil claims:

1. According to this interpretation, the covenant mentioned in 9:27a will be an agreement made between a mystical anti-Christ figure ("he") and Israel.

2. This covenant is believed to span a seven-year period and is expected to occur at the time of the end, projecting the last week of Daniel's seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy some 2000 years into the future. However, historical evidence suggests that the Messiah arrived and was crucified during that last week, prompting a need for careful scrutiny of this claim.

3. It is posited that in the middle of the seven years, the anti-Christ figure will terminate this agreement (27b).

4. As a consequence of this termination, the anti-Christ figure is believed to bring an end to sacrifices and offerings (27c), which implies the reinstatement rather than the elimination of Levitical ceremonies.

5. Furthermore, it is asserted that upon terminating the agreement, the anti-Christ figure will turn against the Jews, destroy the Temple (presumably a third Temple constructed), viciously target the Jewish population, and cause complete desolation and destruction. This destruction of the third Temple and the persecution of the Jews are seen as fulfilling the prophecy of the "abomination of desolation" (27d).

Verse 9:27 is best understood, and should only be understood when recognizing that the "he" refers to the Messiah, who is central to Daniel's seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy. Consequently, the interpretations for the prophecies in verse 27 will center around Him and can only speak of Him, that is, unless you don’t want them to!

[Stewardofthemystery]

55 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

It (A/D) never got set up in 70 AD, The Temple burned beforehand.  Jerusalem was under siege.

The problem is the A/D is set up midweek, and not post 70th Week.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The AOD was about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount Jesus and the apostles were LOOKING AT WITH THEIR OWN EYES 👀 

The 70 weeks of Daniel were “DETERMINED”to be fulfilled by God.

But the futurists try to move that prophecy future forward and make a “7 year tribulation” out of it.

But Jesus said those last days shall be “shortened”for the elects sake.

So if God “DETERMINED”the 490 years to be fulfilled, then it cannot be cut short.

And if this so called “7 year tribulation” were to be true, it could not be cut short either, or else it would not be a full “7 years”tribulation would it?🤔

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake (((those days shall be shortened.)))

[Montana Marv]

Christ died at the end of the 69th week as Daniel says. 

In Christ

Montana Marv 

[WilliamL]

On 6/13/2024 at 7:00 PM, BlindSeeker said:

On 6/13/2024 at 7:00 PM, BlindSeeker said:

True, it has been translated "these things" vastly more times that other ways, but it has been translated in KJV 6 times this. ..

Tauta is plural, this is singular. No matter what the KJV says.

On 6/13/2024 at 7:00 PM, BlindSeeker said:

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This is yet another KJV mistranslation. Don't you ever check the original Greek words and meanings? Beats merely parroting someone else's presumptions added to the Word.