What is Hell?

[Stewardofthemystery]

23 minutes ago, charles beanland said:

With respect,

I have never equated "The Abyss", as the same as Hell. 

In the rich man and Lazarus story, we see the two places in hell separated as paradise and punishment for the dead. Later on we see Jesus confront the Gardnerian Demonic and they begged him not to send them into the Abyss. In your ref. of Revelation 9:11 The angle is sent to the abyss to release said creatures who are ruled over by the King of the Abyss to torment those on the earth.

It would seem to me that the Abyss is a separate place reserved for those other than us. Hell is never spoken of as having a King.

C. P. Beanland

Hell is called the “bottomless pit” because it is “never full.”

Proverbs 27:20

Hell and destruction are “never full;” so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

 

Hell is referred to as the “pit”

 

Isaiah 14:15

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of “the pit.”

Ezekiel 31:16

I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into “the pit:”and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Edited July 20, 2024 by Stewardofthemystery

[Michael37]

54 minutes ago, charles beanland said:

I have never equated "The Abyss", as the same as Hell. 

I like what John Wesley has written as follows:

And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire - That is, were abolished for ever; for neither the righteous nor the wicked were to die any more: their souls and bodies were no more to be separated. Consequently, neither death nor hades could any more have a being.

[Stewardofthemystery]

55 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Hell is called the “bottomless pit” because it is “never full.”

Proverbs 27:20

Hell and destruction are “never full;” so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

 

Hell is referred to as the “pit”

 

Isaiah 14:15

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of “the pit.”

Ezekiel 31:16

I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into “the pit:”and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Here is another way to prove the bottomless pit (the deep) is the same place as hell.

Rev 9:11 - And they had a king overthem, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, ^G12 whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon

Notice same word G12 is used to describe where Christ descended ….

Rom 10:7 - Or, Who shall descend into the deep? ^G12 (that is, to bring upChrist again from the dead.)

Ephesians 4:9

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

 

And where did Christ descend?

Psalm 16:10

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:27

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[Marilyn C]

7 hours ago, charles beanland said:

I will try this again as I seek input from others here.

          Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?

Simply put, I consider the bible a point of Judicial court records for the most part. In that, we have a judge, a judgement seat, and God’s court room with Jesus being the presiding judge over all of mankind. We are the accused; and are called that  by the prosecting attorney named Lucifer (Who is right to do so, I might add). With either Jesus himself as our attorney /or/ our judge - leaving us as full blown criminals.

          We face either punishment or reward – not by our action/works, but by our decission of who we follow for eternity. And as God see that it is to benefit to understand things of the Spiritual nature in earthly imagery I am drawn to know (As much as one can), the idea of Hell on this side of existance.

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? Yet.

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

Hi CP,

Nice to see a fresh face here. Interesting topic. Now I believe that hell is a state of unrest for the unbeliever. We are told in Daniel that some are in the dust of the earth: some good and some bad.

`many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and contempt.` (Dan. 12: 2)

They are not the Body of Christ nor the righteous/just OT saints for they are in the General Assembly.

`to the general Assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 23)

Now Jesus gave us a picture of hell in a form we can understand. Remembering that the dead do not have a body, so this picture is only symbolic. 

`So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham`s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom.....

there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.` (Luke 16: 22, 23  &  26)

This picture reveals that the unbeliever is in a state of unrest, they are in the ground (dust of the earth) and await their judgment. They do not have a body but their soul and spirit is still intact. If they are an unbeliever there is no rest, (for the wicked - Isa. 57: 20 & 21), while the believer in the Body of Christ is asleep in Christ (1 Thess. 4: 14) or the Old Testament saints are asleep in the general assembly. (Heb. 12: 23)

So, to summarize.

1. Body of Christ dead - asleep in Christ in heaven.

2. Old Testament Saints (formally in Abraham`s bosom) - asleep in heaven.

3. Unbelievers - in a state of unrest in the dust of the earth. (hell)

 

[Dennis1209]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi CP,

Nice to see a fresh face here. Interesting topic. Now I believe that hell is a state of unrest for the unbeliever. We are told in Daniel that some are in the dust of the earth: some good and some bad.

`many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and contempt.` (Dan. 12: 2)

They are not the Body of Christ nor the righteous/just OT saints for they are in the General Assembly.

`to the general Assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 23)

Now Jesus gave us a picture of hell in a form we can understand. Remembering that the dead do not have a body, so this picture is only symbolic. 

`So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham`s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom.....

there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.` (Luke 16: 22, 23  &  26)

This picture reveals that the unbeliever is in a state of unrest, they are in the ground (dust of the earth) and await their judgment. They do not have a body but their soul and spirit is still intact. If they are an unbeliever there is no rest, (for the wicked - Isa. 57: 20 & 21), while the believer in the Body of Christ is asleep in Christ (1 Thess. 4: 14) or the Old Testament saints are asleep in the general assembly. (Heb. 12: 23)

So, to summarize.

1. Body of Christ dead - asleep in Christ in heaven.

2. Old Testament Saints (formally in Abraham`s bosom) - asleep in heaven.

3. Unbelievers - in a state of unrest in the dust of the earth. (hell)

 

Top of the day to you, Marilyn,

I do not pretend to understand our topic fully. I form a mental picture of how I interpret and view scripture, reason it out, trying to visualize, as many of us do.

I will not delve into all my thoughts, but being tri-part beings consisting of body, soul, and spirit, created in the image of God, is fascinating.

God directly created all the heavenly hosts, who are called the sons of God. Adam was a direct creation of God and called the son of God.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Through procreation, we are not sons of God; we are sons of Adam, however:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The Lord knew us before we were in the womb:

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

Our bodies are unique, one of a kind, as different as snowflakes, originating and returning to the dust of the earth from the womb.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Question: Being sons of Adam, at what point did we become living souls and receive our spirits? Did our spirits and souls preexist before the formation of our bodies? Or that bright flash of light in the womb at conception? Or sometime else?

For brevity, I will leave out the functions and purposes of our tri-part as I view them.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There is no differentiation between lost or saved spirits given. They all return to the Lord upon bodily physical death. I presume for storage and reunification with the body at both resurrections of the living and second death.

Though we cannot see it, I presume the soul must have a physical containment, shape, form, or body. How can martyred saints under the Alter in heaven wear white robes if they are bodiless? 1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? I think the lost dead are physically raised in corruption at the Great White Throne. 

I believe the angels, and we were created to be one family, sons of God, and to work and worship together as one family; we lost that visualization and relationship because of sin.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

For me, this conveys the idea of not some special gift or miracle, but something lost, a blindness in part, something we once had.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Angels were created well before us; I see them as our elder siblings. Every time they appear, they appear as men. I think this is their natural state as created, but only an opinion.

Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jesus mentions this worm three times in Mark for emphasis. I am aware of the scholastic controversy and MSS manuscripts on this worm and its association with Gehenna. But worms, insects, maggots, and larvae inhabit bodies. From this description, I assume the dead (the lost) have a body.

Whatcha think Marilyn?

[TheBlade]

On 7/20/2024 at 11:34 AM, charles beanland said:

I will try this again as I seek input from others here.

          Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?

Simply put, I consider the bible a point of Judicial court records for the most part. In that, we have a judge, a judgement seat, and God’s court room with Jesus being the presiding judge over all of mankind. We are the accused; and are called that  by the prosecting attorney named Lucifer (Who is right to do so, I might add). With either Jesus himself as our attorney /or/ our judge - leaving us as full blown criminals.

          We face either punishment or reward – not by our action/works, but by our decission of who we follow for eternity. And as God see that it is to benefit to understand things of the Spiritual nature in earthly imagery I am drawn to know (As much as one can), the idea of Hell on this side of existance.

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? Yet.

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

To step out side a bit.. maybe allot haha. Well when Satan fell there was no place found for him so God in His mercy made hell for him. "prepared for the devil and his angels.".  We tend to look at it as if its a place he will end up at yet not a place made for him. Its a place where everything is what God is not. So after all this is over.. Satan and all his angels and all those that heard that knew Christ was the way the truth and the life and fully knowingly reject him will suffer the same fate. 

Something I heard along time ago. It not written .. not something I talk about, preach, teach.. because its not written haha 

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Top of the day to you, Marilyn,

I do not pretend to understand our topic fully. I form a mental picture of how I interpret and view scripture, reason it out, trying to visualize, as many of us do.

I will not delve into all my thoughts, but being tri-part beings consisting of body, soul, and spirit, created in the image of God, is fascinating.

God directly created all the heavenly hosts, who are called the sons of God. Adam was a direct creation of God and called the son of God.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Through procreation, we are not sons of God; we are sons of Adam, however:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

The Lord knew us before we were in the womb:

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

Our bodies are unique, one of a kind, as different as snowflakes, originating and returning to the dust of the earth from the womb.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Question: Being sons of Adam, at what point did we become living souls and receive our spirits? Did our spirits and souls preexist before the formation of our bodies? Or that bright flash of light in the womb at conception? Or sometime else?

For brevity, I will leave out the functions and purposes of our tri-part as I view them.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There is no differentiation between lost or saved spirits given. They all return to the Lord upon bodily physical death. I presume for storage and reunification with the body at both resurrections of the living and second death.

Though we cannot see it, I presume the soul must have a physical containment, shape, form, or body. How can martyred saints under the Alter in heaven wear white robes if they are bodiless? 1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? I think the lost dead are physically raised in corruption at the Great White Throne. 

I believe the angels, and we were created to be one family, sons of God, and to work and worship together as one family; we lost that visualization and relationship because of sin.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

For me, this conveys the idea of not some special gift or miracle, but something lost, a blindness in part, something we once had.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Angels were created well before us; I see them as our elder siblings. Every time they appear, they appear as men. I think this is their natural state as created, but only an opinion.

Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jesus mentions this worm three times in Mark for emphasis. I am aware of the scholastic controversy and MSS manuscripts on this worm and its association with Gehenna. But worms, insects, maggots, and larvae inhabit bodies. From this description, I assume the dead (the lost) have a body.

Whatcha think Marilyn?

Hi Dennis,

What a cheerful greeting for the day. Thank you. 

You do have some musings...Now the `souls of those under the altar,` refers to the OT where people could go to the temple or safe city when on the run for God`s protection. (Num. 35: 15) The `white robes` indicate salvation.

I don`t see angels as our elder siblings. Christ did not die for them. They were all created separately and not procreated as we are. They will not be ruling with Christ on His own throne as we will. When they appeared as men, they just had the `appearance` not the actual.

Isa. 66: 24 refers to those in the Millennium seeing the dead bodies from the earthquake and Jesus` judgment. 

Yes, the unsaved dead have a dead body which decays, but their soul is in the dust of the earth where their soul, (mind, will and emotions) are not at rest. 

My thoughts. 

[Starise]

There has always been some debate on the transition process to the finality of our respective locations. We have enough info to know the dead in Christ go to be with Him. We are not talking about those saved though. We are talking about those lost, right?

Maybe we aren't talking specifically about them but about where they will go. Hell. Some have claimed they have been shown hell by Jesus Himself.Sometimes as a last wakeup call. The bible tells us it was originally made for the devil and his fallen angels. I would imagine this also includes demons.

From those multiple accounts, there are many resemblences to their stories. It's a huge dark hole stinking with levels in the walls. Hell would have to be huge to accomidate all who are there. The bottom is the lake of fire. To hear them tell it, our world is really the dream world, while hell is more real. People who go there are somehow 'regenerated' over and over again so their pain will never stop. Hell does not seem to affect non humans as badly as humans. I say this because non humans seem to be torturing the humans and have mobility, while humans are all trapped in their various places. People are basically burning 24/7 and incapable of anything but suffering. It's a dark hot, smelly place full of the screams of it's inhabitants. Probably the worst part of it though is the total lack of any kind of hope. Once there, always there. These are all people who rejected the only way they could be saved from it. Jesus.

Satan doesn't have any control over the place. He will be there burning one day. From my understanding of this, taking in the bible and personal accounts the things we take for granted here on earth will soon be missed when there. Even something as simple as breathing is difficult. That body has only enough energy to live and suffer. 

 

 

[Not me]

On 7/20/2024 at 1:34 PM, charles beanland said:

I will try this again as I seek input from others here.

          Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?

Simply put, I consider the bible a point of Judicial court records for the most part. In that, we have a judge, a judgement seat, and God’s court room with Jesus being the presiding judge over all of mankind. We are the accused; and are called that  by the prosecting attorney named Lucifer (Who is right to do so, I might add). With either Jesus himself as our attorney /or/ our judge - leaving us as full blown criminals.

          We face either punishment or reward – not by our action/works, but by our decission of who we follow for eternity. And as God see that it is to benefit to understand things of the Spiritual nature in earthly imagery I am drawn to know (As much as one can), the idea of Hell on this side of existance.

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? Yet.

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

Blessings and may God bless your inquiring…..

For me hell is contrary, scripture says in the end God will fill all and all, in other words God’s goodness and love will fill all things, all spaces, all of everything… Those creatures that have chosen the good, the light, the life will experience God’s goodness and love as a good and pleasant thing… Those creatures that have chosen the darkness, the evil, death can only experience God’s love and goodness as their highest contrary…..

For all of eternity God’s arm of love will continually be reaching out to His fallen creatures, but His fallen creatures can only experience His arm of love as their highest contrary, fire being that expression of the highest contrary….

Oh the horrors of hell, God’s love ever reaching out to His fallen creatures, His fallen creatures forever experiencing Him as their highest fear, being their highest contrary….. God remains forever holy and good, His fallen creatures forever and only knowing Him as a consuming fire….

My thoughts, may you be blessed in yours…..

 

A fellow searcher after the mysteries that are hidden in Him, Not me