Bema Seat Judgment

[Cntrysner]

The bema seat is a doctrine of works, a sleight of hand, to bring us back under the judgment of law. This doctrine teaches punishment or loss of rewards and attempts to elevate a christian over another which can not be accepted as a member of the one body of Christ (1 Co 12)…it is Christ that works in us thus His Body gets the rewards not us individually. To me this doctrine of judgment is robbery, all the rewards belong to Christ , there are none outside of His Body.

We should strive to walk as Christ walked becoming servants in this world and denying personal gains through righteous works thus suffering no loss or judgment when we leave this world. The Spirit in us is the fire that judges us daily and will never leave us (Eph 1:13-14), it is as Paul said, “I die daily” (1 Co 15:31).

1Co_3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Php_3:7  But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php_3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

When will this so called bema seat judgment take place? It is unknown… for me judgment happened at salvation when Christ by His Spirit revealed my condition, in that my good works where nothing but filthy rags, deserving fire. I felt that fire burning away inside of me as I surrendered to His will with tears streaming down my face he filled me with His Spirit. My rewards are eternally in Christ and any good work is not of myself but it is Christ working in me.
 

The bema seat doctrine actually threatens our reward in Christ by bringing back a works reward mentality that was under law rather than grace. Why would a Christian that has Christ dwelling in him need to go before Christ to be judged? He doesn’t need to go anywhere because Christ is in him, in other words it would be like Christ going before Christ to be judged. 

Rom 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
The idea of works for rewards is not grace and there is no reward that can match or add to our inheritance which is the unsearchable riches in Christ (Eph 3:8). Let none place you in bondage to righteous works for reward when all riches are gifted by grace in our Lord.

1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 

“Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise
Thou mine inheritance, now and always
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart
High King of Heaven, my treasure Thou art.”  
 

[D. Adrien]

How do you explain Rom. 14: 10-12?

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Or Rev. 2:11

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’

It appears to me that a Christian has to conquer sin. And sin is defined as lawlessness in the bible. Again, in Rev. 2:17 -

17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

:26,27

The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.

Apparently, we all will stand before Jesus and be judged according to our efforts. How a person believes doesn't change the truth of the matter.

Doesn't judgement begin with the household of God?

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

The bema seat is a doctrine of works, a sleight of hand, to bring us back under the judgment of law. This doctrine teaches punishment or loss of rewards and attempts to elevate a christian over another which can not be accepted as a member of the one body of Christ (1 Co 12)…it is Christ that works in us thus His Body gets the rewards not us individually. To me this doctrine of judgment is robbery, all the rewards belong to Christ , there are none outside of His Body.

We should strive to walk as Christ walked becoming servants in this world and denying personal gains through righteous works thus suffering no loss or judgment when we leave this world. The Spirit in us is the fire that judges us daily and will never leave us (Eph 1:13-14), it is as Paul said, “I die daily” (1 Co 15:31).

1Co_3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Php_3:7  But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php_3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

When will this so called bema seat judgment take place? It is unknown… for me judgment happened at salvation when Christ by His Spirit revealed my condition, in that my good works where nothing but filthy rags, deserving fire. I felt that fire burning away inside of me as I surrendered to His will with tears streaming down my face he filled me with His Spirit. My rewards are eternally in Christ and any good work is not of myself but it is Christ working in me.
 

The bema seat doctrine actually threatens our reward in Christ by bringing back a works reward mentality that was under law rather than grace. Why would a Christian that has Christ dwelling in him need to go before Christ to be judged? He doesn’t need to go anywhere because Christ is in him, in other words it would be like Christ going before Christ to be judged. 

Rom 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
The idea of works for rewards is not grace and there is no reward that can match or add to our inheritance which is the unsearchable riches in Christ (Eph 3:8). Let none place you in bondage to righteous works for reward when all riches are gifted by grace in our Lord.

1Co 9:18  What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 

“Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise
Thou mine inheritance, now and always
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart
High King of Heaven, my treasure Thou art.”  
 

The revelation of God is that He is All-Mighty, ALL-righteous and Sovereign.  To one man he gives a majestic intellect. To another, dull simplicity. One born will live ten days and then dies and another will make 100 years. One He makes king, another he makes slave. In the parable of the Talents in Matthew He not only gives the number of Talents He wants to, but they are given according Natural ability. That means differing abilities and differing gifts. It is the world and its system that calls for equality - not God.

We are bound to declare God's attributes from what He tells us and shows us - not the Gnostics.

The time of Bema can be discovered by the process of elimination.
1. It is after death (Heb.9:27)
2. It is after resurrection for all judged are alive (the dead "stand" - Rev.20:12)
3. It is after rapture but before returning to earth (Rev.19)
4. It is after resurrection but before you may enter the Kingdom
5. Seeing as it decides who may be a guest at the Wedding Feast
6. The rich man of Luke 16 is not judged since he had not been resurrected. His suffering comes from what he was when alive. 1st Corinthians 15 say that what is planted in death will come forth. The rich man must still face judgment
7. Only the Church faces the Bema since Christ is on a journey. by the time Israel is gathered, Christ has returned. He then sits on His "THRONE OF GLORY" (Matt.25:31-32) - NOT the Bema.

The system of reward is God-given. One reaps what one sows is God-given. To keep the Law leads to wealth. God rewards Jesus. Jesus rewards His servants. "he made him ruler OF ALL HIS GOODS". The Christian will be savd fom the Lake of Fire by his FAITH, but can suffer "outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth and fire". The "Overcomers" of the seven Churches will be rewarded. In Philippians 3:9-14 Paul, though he had the righteousness of Christ, he strove for the "out-resurection" and the PRIZE of a special up-calling. God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. 

[Vine Abider]

@Cntrysner and @D. Adrien you both bring up good points on this, and I'm glad @AdHoc chimed-in with some great points!

It is easy to think that the Bema Seat is a doctrine that promotes a works-based Christian, but that is not actually the case.  When we believe in what Christ has done, we are saved and born-again with eternal life in us, that cannot die. This is amazing grace!  But then there is accountability for what we do with this new life and grace we've been given - we must get to know our Savior God, abide in Him and grow as He desires and purposed for us as His children.  From this there will be a natural outflowing of fruit (by abiding in the vine).  Some believers will choose to cooperate and let His life in us grow, and others will not.  Some will attempt to do good works apart from Him, which will be judged by fire and burnt up.  (See 1 Cor 3:15).

Much can be said about this, and many go to one extreme or the other concerning this matter.  But perhaps you might read this piece I found online, which gives a good synopsis and a number of relevant passages:  https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/is-the-bema-seat-reserved-for-christians-or-unbelievers-in-the-end-times.html#google_vignette

 

[Cntrysner]

1 hour ago, D. Adrien said:

How do you explain Rom. 14: 10-12?

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Or Rev. 2:11

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’

It appears to me that a Christian has to conquer sin. And sin is defined as lawlessness in the bible. Again, in Rev. 2:17 -

17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

:26,27

The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.

Apparently, we all will stand before Jesus and be judged according to our efforts. How a person believes doesn't change the truth of the matter.

Doesn't judgement begin with the household of God?

It would be better to fall on one’s own face as dead right now and confess Christ Jesus to God before a final judgment.

God’s word reveals that Christ was sent into this world to conquer sin because of man’s inability to do so…. there is none righteous, no not one…not by works of righteousness but according to His mercy…if it is of works it is not grace…by grace we are saved. All these things are in Christ and we in Him are more than conquerors. 

Judgment does began at the house of God, it also ends at the house of God… for me judgment was at salvation ..I was found guilty but Christ received my penalty.

Satan rails against the members of Christ’s Body saying we are not worthy and must be judged, don’t believe his lies.
 

[AdHoc]

14 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

It would be better to fall on one’s own face as dead right now and confess Christ Jesus to God before a final judgment.

God’s word reveals that Christ was sent into this world to conquer sin because of man’s inability to do so…. there is none righteous, no not one…not by works of righteousness but according to His mercy…if it is of works it is not grace…by grace we are saved. All these things are in Christ and we in Him are more than conquerors. 

Judgment does began at the house of God, it also ends at the house of God… for me judgment was at salvation ..I was found guilty but Christ received my penalty.

Satan rails against the members of Christ’s Body saying we are not worthy and must be judged, don’t believe his lies.
 

God required two things of man when He made him. "Image and likeness" and subduing and ruling the earth (Gen.1:26-28)

To achieve all this, God made a way to receive His LIFE and NATURE via the mouth. Adam failed and man fell short. Genesis 5_1-3 shows the Law of KINDS in operation (Gen.1:11-12). Adam should have been in the image of God but his son was in the image of Adam. Man has fallen short of te GLORY of God. This is his POSITION before God. This POSITION is so high and holy that man could never reach it. It must be established and disposed of by God. Jesus established it and Gd imputed it to men BASED ON FAITH.

Once a man was born of God and had eternal LIFE, this LIfe had an issue - a fruit. But the man was a free agent. He could decide to work with God or decide to ignore God. So God set forth a REWARD for his cooperation and fruit-bearing. I is called "incentive". The man would be rewarded if he worked with god to bear fruit from God's LIFE in him. The price of this reward is one LIFE. Self denial and taking up one's cross kill one's aspirations. God's demands, when made number 1, lead to loss. God will repay. To achieve this goal of fruit-bearing needs a change of DISPOSITION. This change of DISPOSITION involves loss and suffering. The mature Christian is one who can deny himself in favor of God's things. Loss is NOW but REWARD is when Christ returns. This is a COMBINED EFFORT of God and man - "Christ In you - the hope of glory". In Life now the Christian is a humiliated servant. If he is faithful to take the blows and receive the training, he will be a king-slave in bliss and renown whe  the King returns. FOR THIS IS WHAT THE BEMA IS FOR.

For our POSITION before God we  need HIS WORK. It is receivd by FAITH
For a DISPOSITION that pleases God and does His works we need change and training. This costs. This will be rewarded.

[Vine Abider]

52 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

For our POSITION before God we  need HIS WORK. It is received by FAITH
For a DISPOSITION that pleases God and does His works we need change and training. This costs. This will be rewarded.

Indeed! 

The most precious thing in the universe is God's Son, and now the Son is in us!  Unmerited favor is extended to us to initially save us from destruction, i.e., our eternal salvation - Christ's Spirit re-births us and we become the Father's children (not just legally, but also with His life and nature per 2 Pet 1:4).  And then we are to fully grow and mature in this new life of Christ in us, and be transformed into His image.  This is what the Father is really after - a multiplication of His Son --> many sons brought into glory (Heb 2:10) and into the same amazing love relationship.

And as we know, once a person believes in Christ and receives His life, he still has freedom of choice and can choose to not nourish this life and let it grow properly.  This is a very serious matter indeed! (since God values Christ above all else)

And there are works the Father has planned for us to walk in them (Eph 2:10). But this only occurs properly when the works are done according to a close relationship with Him.  That is, the believer must be abiding in this relationship with God (walking in spirit), hearing Him and doing the work according to His will and His inner supply (Christ in us).

Therefore in 1st Corinthians 3:10-15, we are told about a believer's works. If one chooses to do the things God has given him and "builds" according to the supply of the new, inner man (gold, silver, precious stones), he will receive a reward.  However, if he chooses to try and build according to his old outer man nature (dead works: wood, hay, stubble), his works will be burnt in the judging fire. And verse 15 clearly says that though the works are judged, this man himself will be saved (since he is a child of God with His life in him). 

So yes, the works must come out of a living faith/trust in God, as an outflow of the inner life of Christ and that relationship the believer is enjoying.  This only happens if we are letting ourselves be conformed to His image (which certainly means a cross to our self-life) and maturing in His life.  This is God's desire and merits His reward.  And it's His good pleasure to reward us, and He will train & discipline us accordingly as His children, so we may grow properly and fully into this most exceedingly wonderful relationship He's called us into (Rev 3:9, Heb 12:7-11).

[Marathoner]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

And there are works the Father has planned for us to walk in them (Eph 2:10). But this only occurs properly when the works are done according to a close relationship with Him.

We are indeed created for these works in Christ, and it is only when we are in Christ that these works may begin. Prior to our lives being hidden in the Son of the living God, our experiences prepare us for what is to come in Him.

I'm especially grateful to @AdHoc for addressing that equality which man seeks to impose so as to enforce anonymity upon each and every one of us. This equality is then used to deny that the Lord judges all of His beloved whose lives are hidden in Him. Some call this judgment of the saints, the Bema Seat. It's accurate and faithful to the testimony of scripture. I've always thought of it as the day of reckoning before our Lord.

It's true that those works we were created for in Christ are not the same from one member of the Body to the next. Just as well, what we receive from the Lord (symbolized as those Talents) is also not identical. What is testified in scripture is represented in the following way: when the Lord told Peter that He had something different in mind for John. What of it? (John 21)

Indeed. I struggled greatly with what the Lord had in mind for me, and so did others when it was revealed in our midst. What? Why does the Lord love someone like him so much? He's too quiet, he isolates himself, and he's infamous for leaving in the middle of men's meetings without an excuse. He doesn't fear the elders and keeps to himself in the forest where no one else goes. So, why do brothers and sisters stand up in gatherings to declare how much the Lord loves him? It's not fair!

I knew what they were saying, my friends. I was ashamed and didn't understand why the Lord loved me so much. It didn't seem to be fair to me, either. I was as blind as they were, only I knew that I was blind. I didn't understand His words when He sent those same brothers and sisters who declared His love to impart them to my ears. They spoke about everything that would happen until the day of that vision arrived. In that vision, I had looked into a mirror at a man who was dying. When that day arrived, I suddenly knew that man in the mirror was me. 

That was representative of what I received from the Lord from the beginning, decades before He poured His Spirit upon me. What of it? Ah, but I never asked for a single thing for in truth, I sought to end my life over and over again. I suffer greatly, and this is something that those who never understood why He loves me so much never knew nor had experienced themselves. I suffer greatly but even in this I know the greatest of joy, for the Lord has given Himself to me. Does this make me "special?" Of course not. It's simply what I receive from the Lord. I never asked for this. 

Equality? No, but here it is: not a single one of us can boast in ourselves. Without the Lord, I would have ended my life by my own hand a long time ago. Therefore, I can only boast about my Lord and God Jesus Christ! We can join together and boast about Christ!

Edited August 10, 2024 by Marathoner

[Marathoner]

On to something that I've discussed with you before regarding the Bema, @Vine Abider. You might recall that I wrote how I will not be surprised nor dismayed by that day when we all stand before the Lord. What I didn't write about:

The stubble of my own works, and the rubble of those houses I sought to raise with my own hands, have been burned into ashes by fire from the Lord over, and over, and over again. This is how life has always been for me, brother. Every time I sought to strike out on my own and accumulate those things I coveted the most in this world, I watched while it fell into a heap... slipped through my fingers... and cried out while it burned to ash. Why do you think I was reduced to living as a destitute vagabond? I never had a place to rest my head because the Lord sent the whirlwind; and when the whirlwind was finished with its work, God sent fire to consume it all until nothing remained. I despaired of living for so long...

It all came to an end on what I believed was my last day on this earth. I was emaciated and close to death! It wasn't enough to lose the means to earn money, brother. I had to lose every penny I had saved. It wasn't sufficient to be rejected from opportunities to work heavy labor jobs... I had to lose the strength which made heavy labor possible to do. Oh, but I could do much more than haul lumber and concrete, yes? I was a skilled public speaker and proven writer, so I had to lose the ability to speak and the focus required to write a sentence as well. I couldn't grab hold of a single thought longer than a few seconds... I would find myself lost and confused. 

That was where I was when the beginning, truly began. From that day forward, the One who raised my house was the Lord Himself. He raised my house up from the ashes, and He also set my table in the midst of the enemies. When He poured His Spirit upon me, the Lord promised that He would speak, and I would hear; I would hear His voice, and I would do whatever He bid me to do. It was that simple. Whatever I have, He would give. This is the time for me to rest and be glad... time that He is well-pleased to give. 

It's been burned up already. It was taken away from me. I won't be surprised. I know what the Lord will say, for He has been saying it to me all along: when my time on this earth is finished, He will gather me to Himself. I will never have to leave His side. 

Edited August 10, 2024 by Marathoner

[Sower]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 So God set forth a REWARD for his cooperation and fruit-bearing. I is called "incentive". The man would be rewarded if he worked with god to bear fruit from God's LIFE in him.

I brought this issue up quite a while back with VA.
I could not understand why God had to, or decided to, "hang a carrot" of reward to do what we were already supposed to be doing.
To it seemed to be mercenary, or doing what our creator deserved by handing out a reward to do it.

Instead of abiding in the vine 'continually' and bearing (HIS) fruit he produced (we only bear it) out of our love for him, we have to have an incentive, something for self, to tip the scales to perform. Like spoiled children.

God says we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Always thought at the bema seat it will be decided who will rule and where etc. and that was only at the kingdom age on earth with Christ when he comes back.
Could this incentive be (to our all knowing God) a way (purpose) to determine a faithful steward from an unfaithful one?
Our all knowing God already knew before time existed. It must be for a reason, spiritual reason.

MY Understanding my motive/reason for doing the right thing, the good work.  
       Fear - Obedience -  Reward  -  Or genuine love.

 

Thanks, AdHoc