MARK OF.......?

[BornAgain490]

On 8/16/2024 at 7:58 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

For those who hold an interest in " END TIMES" (eschatology),

much speculation and interest has been devoted to...."THE MARK"

what it is, how it will be enforced, where it will be placed etc....

the real concern should be, understanding just WHO authorizes the mark to be created in the first place & WHY!!!!!

READ CAREFULLY the passages below..........GOD HIMSELF BRINGS THE DECEPTION AND GIVES THE BEAST THE POWER AND OR AUTHORITY... TO CARRY IT OUT.....NOW READ CAREFULLY, ON WHO & WHY!!!!

[Rev 13:16-17 NASB95] 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and [he provides] that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, [either] the name of the beast or the number of his name.

[2Thessalonians 2:9-12 ] 9 [that is,] the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, WITH ALL POWER AND SIGNS AND FALSE WONDERS 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, BECAUSE they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason GOD WILL SEND UPON THEM them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they ALL MAY BE JUDGED who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

[Rev 17:13, 17 NASB95] 13 "These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. ... 17 "For GOD HAS PUT IT IN THEIR HEARTS TO EXECUTE """"""HIS""""""" PURPOSE by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.

The mark will come via the global pharmaceutical industrial complex. 

[Dave Watchman]

On 8/25/2024 at 7:24 PM, Progressive Truth said:

Too, you should understand that the events here on earth will happen too, in the chronological order given, and we are talking on a global scale,

I don't dispute the chronological order, or the events taking place on a global scale.

On 8/25/2024 at 7:24 PM, Progressive Truth said:

as all of mankind will get the heads up at the same time. 

I disagree. All of mankind did not get the heads up at the same time. Do you think the people who have been given a strong delusion have a heads up? The reprobate minded are the outer court, do not measure them. They are not going to get a "heads up" until the day the flood comes and takes them all away. 

Do you think that the 6th Trumpet and remaining Vials can be completed over a span of 40 days? The no flesh saved alive days?

On 8/25/2024 at 7:24 PM, Progressive Truth said:

Therefore, since the earth has never experienced these events on a global scale in the order given you as well as I can be confident that no trumpet has yet sounded. 

I still don't see why the Trumpets could not have started sounding, and the vials not began pouring in 2022. Based on the timing we were talking about in this thread, they had to have started by then. Along with a few other big things, they have to be happening now. If you, like others, can agree that the Seals have started already a long time ago, but may be spoken of in symbolic language, then the Trumpets and Vials may be of the same kind.

You might think that the Trumpets occurring as literal examples might be the catalyst for the mark of the beast. As these judgements begin to fall in quick succession, people will know that God is angry with mankind's degenerate and transgressive behavior. This will enable the Antichrist to be revealed, and working through the worlds governments, set up fast emergency actions for the purpose of appeasing God. They will think if we do not do something, God is going to kill us all. So because of these literal Trumpets, people will follow, and agree to do the things that they never would normally do.

But if this scenario were to take place, it would violate what Jesus said about His coming as a thief, at an hour that we do not expect. If this scenario were to occur then everyone would know we were in one of the days of the Son of Man. Then everyone would know that the God of the Bible is coming back.

I think that the five months of the 5th Trumpet was coincident with the 1st Vial, they were the same thing, and has just recently occurred. So if I'm correct with the timing, this global event has only had an impact on the men who have taken the mark of the beast. That means the mark of the beast has already just happened, and is happening now. 

The 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials ARE in chronological order. But the Seals began a long time ago and span a long number of years. These three prophecies align in chronological order, and connect like the layers of a wedding cake, not in a consecutive order. These things must all be happening now, like a tribulum of the Matrix, people are all walking around like things are normal. But they are not normal.

And in the midst of it all, Jesus is calmly saying: (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) 

Peaceful Sabbath.
 

Edited August 31, 2024 by Dave Watchman

[Progressive Truth]

4 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

On 8/25/2024 at 7:24 PM, Progressive Truth said:

as all of mankind will get the heads up at the same time. 

I disagree. All of mankind did not get the heads up at the same time. Do you think the people who have been given a strong delusion have a heads up? The reprobate minded are the outer court, do not measure them. They are not going to get a "heads up" until the day the flood comes and takes them all away. 

Do you think that the 6th Trumpet and remaining Vials can be completed over a span of 40 days? The no flesh saved alive days?

"I disagree. All of mankind did not get the heads up at the same time. Do you think the people who have been given a strong delusion have a heads up?" No, the global heads up comment I made had to do with, if you recall, a future event, the throwing down of the censor, of (Rev. 8:2-5) It will be global, it marks the beginning of the tribulation, when the living will be forced by circumstances to either worship Christ or the Lamb like beast/Satan which comes out of the earth (Rev. 13:11) The time frame of the tribulation will be the same for all. Therefore, everyone will get a heads up on the very first day, when the censer in heaven is cast down the the global events in vs. 5 literally happen here on earth. When it does it will surely be a headline story on nightly news, since such events have never happened on a global scale.

This is proof that the trumpets are yet future. Prophecy is the more sure word of God. 

No, the 6th, 7th trumpet and vials will take longer that 4o days. Why do you ask?

[Progressive Truth]

5 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

If you, like others, can agree that the Seals have started already a long time ago, but may be spoken of in symbolic language, then the Trumpets and Vials may be of the same kind.

 

 

5 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

But if this scenario were to take place, it would violate what Jesus said about His coming as a thief, at an hour that we do not expect.

Consider this: "The coming of the Lord" is not a one day event. it is a series of events during the span of the tribulation that warns people of Christ coming and encourages  them to except His offer of salvation in its closing days. For the uninformed it (tribulation) will come as a thief in the night.

5 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

I think that the five months of the 5th Trumpet was coincident with the 1st Vial, they were the same thing, and has just recently occurred. So if I'm correct with the timing, this global event has only had an impact on the men who have taken the mark of the beast. That means the mark of the beast has already just happened, and is happening now. 

I think the word "coincident" was meant to be "connected." Prophecy does not support that the 5th trumpet and 1st vial being connected or have opened for the reasons given with regard to the censor being thrown down in my previous post. 

Too, for the same reason the the tribulation has not begun the mark is still a future event.  

5 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

The 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials ARE in chronological order. But the Seals began a long time ago and span a long number of years. These three prophecies align in chronological order, and connect like the layers of a wedding cake, not in a consecutive order. These things must all be happening now, like a tribulum of the Matrix, people are all walking around like things are normal. But they are not normal.

Yes, the events in the seals, trumpets, and vials are given in their chronological order, and I believe the 1st seal opened in 1798, the second shortly after, and the third in 1844. The forth is the next to open, and when it does the tribulation will begin. The one forth of the earth that will be killed when it opens is the result of the literal events given in the first four trumpets, that happen during the first of the tribulation. This will certainly arrest the attention of mankind when the earth is put into survival mode to consider the gospel. 

I believe you like many expositors of centuries past believe the seals, trumpets, and vials have all started about 100 A.D. and have opened sequentially from that time and will continue until Christ return. This is a incorrect interpretation. 

You mention, "layers of a wedding cake." Have you been reading Larry Wilsons material?

[WilliamL]

On 8/31/2024 at 4:22 AM, Diaste said:

So here we have the beast cast into the lake of fire 1000 years before Satan is thrown into the LoF. Satan is locked in the abyss for 1000 years while the beast is cast into the LoF for eternity. Satan and the beast are not the same entity. 

True. And entirely irrelevant to the question. Which was: your unsupported claim that the Beast will be a man.

On 8/31/2024 at 4:22 AM, Diaste said:

On 8/29/2024 at 1:32 PM, WilliamL said:

But fallen spirits, like Satan, CAN have seven heads, whereas there never has been, nor ever will be, such a man!

Interesting speculation. As I said, I take Rev 13:1-2 as symbolism of the previous kings of the great empires...

No speculation about it. Men can't have seven heads. Symbols don't ride on horses and make war and be cast into the Abyss and then the lake of fire.

Fallen angels can do all those things. And this fallen angel has a name, which is Azazel. That is what history and prophecy reveals, for those who are able to receive it. Most cannot, because such is outside of their worldview. So be it.

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

True. And entirely irrelevant to the question. Which was: your unsupported claim that the Beast will be a man.

Not irrelevant. They are individuals. The beast of Rev 13 is an amalgamation of the previous empires as depicted in Daniel 7. These three empires of the lion, bear and leopard correspond to Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, which also correspond to the statue in Dan 2 [as well as every other mention of these empires, no matter the symbol used]. Each of those has at it's pinnacle a king or emperor. 

Those 3 beasts didn't manifest in the form and likeness of the described creature. 

You really think the Babylonian kingdom under Nebuchadnezzar was a lion with eagle's wings, or that Nebuchadnezzar was a literal lion with eagle's wings? 

No, Nebuchadnezzar was a man. The several Medo-Persian kings were also men, Alexander was a man; and all were the heads of empires likened to a fantastic creature, they were not the creatures themselves. 

It is the same with the beast of Rev 13. The 7 heads are 7 kings corresponding to Rev 17:10. This 8th beast who arises from the 7 is called a king 'from the previous 7'. It would be burdening the text to the breaking point to assume the previous 7 were some beast akin to Rev 13:1-2. In your interpretation that would have to be the case as the 8th beast is supposed to be some hideous 7 headed, 10 horned nightmare than came from a previous 7, just like the 8th. 

Where is the justification for that? 

Since the beast of Rev 13:1-2 is the same beast as Rev 17:3, and the heads in Rev 17 are interpreted by the angel as being kings, and the 8th is of those 7 kings, the 8th beast is a man, and the 7 headed, 10 horned, 10 crown beast is symbolic of an empire, the same way the lion, the bear and the leopard are depicted in Dan 7.

This would then follow the same logic applied to the 4th beast of Dan 7. It's a kingdom symbolized by a terrifying nature with a king at it's head.

This is what Jesus is also relating in Rev 13 and 17; a dreadful, terrifying power will arise where the king over it is of a line of 7 previous kings, that king has an alliance with 10 other kings, and that alliance, along with the whore, form the coming power symbolized by the beast of Rev 13:1-2 and Rev 17:3

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

No speculation about it. Men can't have seven heads. Symbols don't ride on horses and make war and be cast into the Abyss and then the lake of fire.

I don't know anyone suggesting that's the case. I would seem that if one is to literally interpret Rev 13:1-2 and Rev 17:3 then one should also literally interpret Dan 7:3-7. From history we know that can't be the case since the Lion is Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar, the Bear is Persia under the Medo-Persian kings, and the Leopard is Greece under Alexander. 

Your not really going interpret Dan 7:6, "It was like a leopard, and on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.", as a literal beast at the head of the Macedonian juggernaut, are you?

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Fallen angels can do all those things. And this fallen angel has a name, which is Azazel. That is what history and prophecy reveals, for those who are able to receive it. Most cannot, because such is outside of their worldview. So be it.

There is a lot of speculation as to who or what is Azazel. I listened to Womack preach on this many times. I get it, that's your interpretation. I don't see Azazel related to end of the age events or kings and beasts. There's just no evidence from scripture for that conclusion. 

[Dennis1209]

The Age of Grace ends at the church's rapture. In the Tribulation, the kingdom of God will be preached by the 144,000, the two Witnesses, and flying angels; record numbers will be saved during the Tribulation.

With that said, here is what stumps me:

In this and previous ages, there are plenty of examples of where Satanists, complete with facial and body tattoos of pentagrams, upside down crosses, skulls, and occultic symbolisms, worship, and practices, have repented and called on the Lord Jesus to save them. In this age, every sin can be forgiven, except for blaspheming the Holy Spirit, if that is still possible and is debatable.

There are many theories on this, but what automatically damn's a person that voluntarily accepts the Mark of the Beast, with no chance or hope of repenting, changing their mind about the Lord Jesus?

Is it a supernatural hardening of the heart, as with Pharaoh, omniscience, knowing they will not change their mind? I think not, as the forehead or right hand are physical locations. Interestingly, these are the two locations of the body with the most significant temperature swings; I am thinking of energy being mutually convertible.

What does your translation read? Is this M.O.B. IN or ON the forehead or right hand? Mine reads IN, and there is a big difference if we are talking about something the size of a grain of rice or a basketball.

The condition to receive this M.O.B. is allegiance and worship. There must be something extra special about this 'mark' for millions of people to receive it in such a short time. It reminds me of the traffic jams and miles-long lines of cars in my little town to get the initial COVID-19 vaccinations.

I have suspicions of what this M.O.B. entails. Jesus died for humanity, not any of the spiritual realm, animals, or hybrids. In this technological age, science has made great strides in transhumanism. You have all heard the official announcement of the super-soldiers creation, and it does not involve Iron Man suites; it is D.N.A. alteration—the creation of a Space Force and the biological dangers of outer space to overcome. Crisper Cass 9 kits are available to anyone.

A geneticist came on record when asked how much DNA changes in a human before we cease to be a human; her response was < 1%.

I envision a pattern in progress coming to reality and fruition.

[Progressive Truth]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There are many theories on this, but what automatically damn's a person that voluntarily accepts the Mark of the Beast, with no chance or hope of repenting, changing their mind about the Lord Jesus?

Dennis, I can answer your question, but first would like to know what you perceive the condition the world will be in at the time the MOB is introduced?

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, Progressive Truth said:

Dennis, I can answer your question, but first would like to know what you perceive the condition the world will be in at the time the MOB is introduced?

Well, if history is 20/20, in my lifetime, in my wildest dreams, I could have never imagined how perverted and evil our world has become. For brevity, I will skip everything from abortion out of the womb to gender identity and woke culture. Identification as an animal and bestiality are on the agenda at present. When the Restrainer is removed, there will be no restraining force, and evil will go unchecked.

Knowledge no longer doubles every century or so, knowledge they say, now doubles every few weeks. I suspect modern technology will be staggering very soon, including proto-types in advancing transhumanism via DNA alterations and splicing.

We see the world as falling apart at the seams. Or as Jan Markell of Olive Tree Ministry puts it: “The world is not falling into pieces; the pieces are falling in place.”

The world is now screaming for an individual to solve all the global dangers and problems. The purported “man-made” climate change will be a mechanism for worldwide unity and international carbon credits with taxation for UN agendas.

I feel the subsequent global crises, be it disease, natural disaster outbreak, global economic collapse, terrorist attack, or whatever, a good crisis will not go to waste next time around.

[TheBlade]

Hi all you are so blessed "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places"

Rev 13:15 "And he is given power to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast will even [appear to] speak, and cause those who do not bow down and worship the image of the beast to be put to death." 

But lets back up a few verses...

Revelation 13:8 says, “All who dwell on earth will worship (the beast), everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.” 

See I never understood why so many get stuck on the mark. You have to worship the beast before we get to the mark. And praise GOD glory gory glory to Jesus we "if"( I don't believe so) are still here we will never worship the beast and if we don't we are put to death.