Are We Mistaken In The Teaching Of The Pre-trib Rapture????

[Keras]

37 minutes ago, TheBlade said:

There is no scripture saying any believer has to must go through the great tribulation

Revelation 12:17

Write that verse out and post it here please. 

While you are at it, post Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, with an explanation of who are the holy people of the Most High and the saints. [or Gods people.]

However, we are Promised protection during the trials to come and the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the final 3 1/2 years. Revelation 12:14 

[WilliamL]

On 9/3/2024 at 9:28 PM, Keras said:

I do not see any scripture that says the Lord will rapture His people.

Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it is not there. Lots of people are spiritually blind to a whole lot of things.

On 9/3/2024 at 9:28 PM, Keras said:

You haven't presented any; why not? 

I have presented them to you more times than I care to remember, on this and another forum. You just ignore and/or misinterpret what they actually promise.

On 9/3/2024 at 9:28 PM, Keras said:

1/ Jesus said it was impossible, John 3:13, John 17:15, +

I have already explained these verse a number of times. You misinterpret their meaning.

"...Elijah ascended in the whirlwind of heaven." 2 Kings 2:11

So did Enoch: "God took him." Gen. 2:24

24 human elders redeemed by the blood of Jesus are seen in heaven before the throne of God in Rev. 4 and later chapters. And so on. Deny these truths of the Word if you will.

 

 

[enoob57]

On 8/22/2024 at 2:53 PM, Keras said:

Have you really considered any alternative to a 'rapture'? Because there are viable and scriptural end times scenarios where God's people remain on earth.

no because God says this:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (KJV)

[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

one can only ask what wrath to come

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

appointed us not to what wrath

certainly, this qualifies as wrath like no other time from God

Revelation 6:16 (KJV)

[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What is the “great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Malachi 4:5)? | GotQuestions.org

When God specifically says a thing and some ignore it- they do so to their own harm and error results... and when it is done once then another till it is no longer God saying but something else... what direction is left for them?

[Keras]

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

When God specifically says a thing and some ignore it- they do so to their own harm and error results... and when it is done once then another till it is no longer God saying but something else... what direction is left for them?

Yes; when disaster strikes; Zephaniah 3:8, and we are all still here, those who put their faith in being taken to heaven; will not know which way to turn. Luke 21:25-26

[BornAgain490]

Tribulation and God's wrath are not the same event. 

Tribulation is persecution, and great tribulation is intense widespread persecution. Tribulation and great tribulation are of Satan, the antichrist, and men in league with them. 

Christians are going through, and have been going through, tribulation since the first century, starting with Jesus Christ, Stephen, James the brother of John, the early followers of Christ at the hand of Saul, then Saul after his conversion, and all the apostles. The persecutions continued even while the church grew greater in numbers to those of the church who were being persecuted.

Read John Foxe's "Book of Martyrs" and the monthly publication "Voice of the Martyrs" and you'll see just how widespread and intense the persecution of Christians has become.  It's even in parts of the west where it was never seen before, and it's growing.  

Jesus never promised that we'd not be subject to murder and beheading and torture from man and all that oppose Him.  That is part of why pretrib rapture is not biblical. 

[BornAgain490]

7 hours ago, Keras said:

Yes; when disaster strikes; Zephaniah 3:8, and we are all still here, those who put their faith in being taken to heaven; will not know which way to turn. Luke 21:25-26

Sad, but true. 

[BornAgain490]

17 hours ago, enoob57 said:

no because God says this:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (KJV)

[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

one can only ask what wrath to come

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

appointed us not to what wrath

certainly, this qualifies as wrath like no other time from God

Revelation 6:16 (KJV)

[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What is the “great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Malachi 4:5)? | GotQuestions.org

When God specifically says a thing and some ignore it- they do so to their own harm and error results... and when it is done once then another till it is no longer God saying but something else... what direction is left for them?

The pouring out of God's wrath: the day of the Lord, is a separate and distinct event from tribulation and great tribulation. 

The Bible nowhere explicitly states the church is taken to heaven for seven years while the rest of the world goes through great tribulation. 

The Bible does explicitly state that when Christ returns to pour out the wrath of God, the church is gathered to meet Jesus in the air to return with Him as He continues His triumphant descent to His earth. 

[Jaydub]

21 hours ago, enoob57 said:

no because God says this:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (KJV)

[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Are you than saying, its not possible for God to save us from his wrath while on earth?

He saved Noah and his family from his wrath, when he destroyed the earth, He saved Lot and his family, when Sodom and Gamora were destroyed. He saved the Israelites from the plagues that fell on Egypt and he saved the Israelites when they were crossing the red sea, while destroying the Egyptian army. God is able to keep his people from his wrath.

I would like to ask another question, do you think the verses you quoted could be about Gods judgment, not about physical wrath, but about eternal wrath

21 hours ago, enoob57 said:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

appointed us not to what wrath

 You asked, what wrath? This is talking about eternal punishment, its Judgment. Gods wrath or salvation. We are to obtain salvation through Jesus Christ, so we don't experience Gods wrath

 

21 hours ago, enoob57 said:

certainly, this qualifies as wrath like no other time from God

 This statement is true, it is like no other wrath it is eternal wrath

 

21 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Revelation 6:16 (KJV)

[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Again this verse is speaking of Gods judgment, they are saying for mountains to fall on them, because physical death is better than, God wrath and his judgment, they would rather face physical death than eternal death, Gods wrath

[existential mabel]

9 hours ago, Keras said:

Yes; when disaster strikes; Zephaniah 3:8, and we are all still here, those who put their faith in being taken to heaven; will not know which way to turn. Luke 21:25-26

which way are you going to turn? mens hearts will be failing them...which way then do you say? based on scripture

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Jaydub said:

Are you than saying, its not possible for God to save us from his wrath while on earth?

He saved Noah and his family from his wrath, when he destroyed the earth, He saved Lot and his family, when Sodom and Gamora were destroyed. He saved the Israelites from the plagues that fell on Egypt and he saved the Israelites when they were crossing the red sea, while destroying the Egyptian army. God is able to keep his people from his wrath.

You must have read this into what I wrote for I said nothing of such 

1 hour ago, Jaydub said:

would like to ask another question, do you think the verses you quoted could be about Gods judgment, not about physical wrath, but about eternal wrath

When the wrath is not specified one must consider all from that point on... it is pin pointedly referring to God's wrath so anything from that statement on would need to be considered as such...

1 hour ago, Jaydub said:

 You asked, what wrath? This is talking about eternal punishment, its Judgment. Gods wrath or salvation. We are to obtain salvation through Jesus Christ, so we don't experience Gods wrath

this is not found in the text but you are reading into the text other... it certainly is to be considered but to say it and it along is not specified in the text...

1 hour ago, Jaydub said:

This statement is true, it is like no other wrath it is eternal wrath

eternal wrath is not found in the text... only this

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV)

[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath,

the wrath is unspecified so all wrath must be considered from this point on...

1 hour ago, Jaydub said:

Again this verse is speaking of Gods judgment, they are saying for mountains to fall on them, because physical death is better than, God wrath and his judgment, they would rather face physical death than eternal death, Gods wrath

The physical situation is so dire they are wishing for physical death... what you have written is not found in the text...