Has the 70th week of Daniel begun?

[douggg]

10 hours ago, abcdef said:

So the confirmation of the Law and promises to the fathers took 7 years to completely be confirmed, not just one day on the cross.

Jesus was not confirming the Law.    A person cannot be saved by the Law.

The covenant of God in Christ is based on faith, not works of the law.   And by Christ, we receive the Spirit, who perfects us.   Galatians 3:5

God had preached the good news, i.e. gospel, of justification by faith to Abraham, by which God would justify the heathen through faith.    And because of Abraham's faith in God's promises, also likewise by faith all nations shall be blessed.   Galatians 3:8

Paul was preaching in Galatians 3, that they should maintain that their justification before God is based on faith of what Christ did on the cross, becoming a curse for us because of our failure to keep the law.     Faith, not by works of the Law, is the basis of Salvation.

Jesus confirmed that covenant of Salvation based on faith, in one day, that day He died on the cross for atonement of our sins.

It has nothing to do with the seven years in Daniel 9:27.

Edited November 10, 2024 by douggg

[douggg]

The "for seven years" in Daniel 9:27 is not how long the confirmation process is. 

But instead is the how often, the cycle, that the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant should be done according to the law that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

Every 7 years, according to the requirement made by Moses, the leaders of Israel were to address the nation of Israel, from the place of God's choosing, and remind the nation that God gave the children of Israel the land of Israel as theirs for ever.

I have discussed with Jews (Judaism) what they consider the place of God's choosing is today in modern times, and they said the temple mount.

So from there, the Antichrist, newly anointed king of Israel, will make the big speech - which will begin the 7 year 70th week.

Of course that sort of speech has not been done ever since the Muslims took control of the temple mount.     But because of the Gog/Magog event, the Muslim presence on the temple mount will be gone, creating an environment whereby the speech can be made.

The 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9 are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27.     So timeline wise, the prince that shall come, will be anointed the king of Israel right after Gog/Magog, initiating both the 7 year 70th week, and also a false messianic age - with the world deluded into saying peace and safety of 1Thessalonians5:3.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Light]

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

I can agree with you that Israel rejected Jesus at His crucifixion. The rulers of Israel rejected Jesus.

The general population expected that Jesus would be their king in a material would at that time. One example might be the triumphal entry into Jerusalem some days earlier. 

Then the rulers came at night and arrested Him when the people were sleeping. They were not aware of it until later.

They were aware when they called for Barabbas.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

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The crucifixion is not the reason that Jerusalem fell to the Romans.

I know.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

It was because the majority of Israel rejected the new covenant that began on Pentecost.

After Pentecost even those leaders of Israel who rejected Jesus at the trial and crucifixion could have repented and been baptized. They would have been saved, received God's blessings, and salvation. But they didn't and fought against the gospel kingdom to the point when they began killing Christians.

By their lies the majority of Israel rejected the kingdom, began attacking the kingdom, which led to the desolation of Jerusalem and the temple.

Had Israel accepted the Pentecost gospel kingdom, Jerusalem and the temple might not have been destroyed and remained standing to this day. 

They had their eyes blinded. They are spiritually blind.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

The abomination of desolation was the rejection of the new gospel covenant.

The abomination of desolation has not occurred as of yet.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

As a consequence of that rejection, Roman armies under Titus desolated the city.

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When Israel was faithful, God's protection was over the children of Israel and Jerusalem. 

When Israel was unfaithful, God withdrew His protection over the city and brought gentile armies to attack the children of Israel and Jerusalem as seen many times in the OT.

When God withdrew His protection over Jerusalem, it was like heaven departing like a scroll being rolled up. (Rev 6:14)

I think you should look at the difference between Luke 21 and Matthew 24 regarding Jerusalem.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

 

If the Dan 9:25-27 prophecy takes longer that 70 weeks, then it can not be true.

It is exactly 70 weeks and 69 weeks have occurred.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

You are extending the time of the 70 beyond 1900 years which is making the promise false.

The 70th week of Daniel will begin when a covenant with many is made for 7 years. The Antichrist.......the rider on the white horse will confirm this covenant.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

There is no language in the text the indicates any timeline gap.

Daniel 9

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

 ---

The prince is Jesus. Jesus/God brought the armies of Rome and destroyed Jerusalem and the temple.

The thought would be that the people of the Prince are the Roman armies under the command of God/Jesus. Under the command and directed by God's will the Roman armies are the people of the Prince Jesus/God.

Titus destroyed the city as the Antichrist, but only was able to because of the will of Jesus/God withdrawing His protection over the city.

This is all future. The people of the coming Antichrist will destroy the Temple, soon to be built and the city of Jerusalem. And God will drive that army from Jerusalem.

Joel 2

20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

 

The running to and fro has always happened, but is not a confirmation that the passage is about our modern times. In Roman times it also seemed that people were traveling farther and faster due the Roman road system.

As for the increase in knowledge, it could be seen as an increase in spiritual knowledge of God. Jesus did reveal God to Israel and the gentile nations by his teachings and by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So the verse doesn't confirm that it is about our modern times, but points to a time when Michael, Jesus the Prince, comes to reveal God and that was at the beginning of the 70th week, 30 AD.

You are really stretching this. It pretty obvious that men run to and fro NOW. As for knowledge increasing, this is not spiritual knowledge.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

The 70 weeks are 490 years. Not over 1900 years. If the 70 weeks goes beyond 490 years then it is false.

The 70th week happens now not during the time of Jesus as Messiah is cut off.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

 

The 70 weeks are 490 years. Not over 1900 years. If the 70 weeks goes beyond 490 years then it is false.

It is 490 year total. 7 years are yet to be complete.

On 11/9/2024 at 10:27 AM, abcdef said:

 

The dragon is the 4th beast of Dan 7 and the iron of the statue in Dan 2, the Roman nation.

Rome has attacked the children of Israel since 63 BC.

According to Dan 12:7, the time of the end begins when the people of Israel are scattered into the gentile nations. That happened in the 70 AD ish time period. 

One thought might be that the little scroll that was sealed until the scattering of Israel is the 7 sealed book of the Revelation. That scroll was opened in 96 AD ish by Jesus in front of John. Dan 12:4 & 9.

Since the 7 sealed book was opened in 96 AD, it means that all the prophecies of Dan 11 & 12 had been fulfilled and the time of the end had begun already.

 

The Roman dragon beast nation, Dan 7, did chase Israel into the gentile nations in 70 AD ish.

It wasn't 3 1/2 years, it was 1900 years ish, showing that the 3 1/2 times is not years, but symbolic of the time when Israel is scattered in the gentile nations.

 

 

I think you are missing the boat on this. You will catch on soon.

[abcdef]

On 11/9/2024 at 6:27 PM, douggg said:

Jesus was not confirming the Law.  

Jesus did confirm the covenant of the Law of Moses. He also confirmed the covenant with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the Prophets.

Many prophecies and covenants were confirmed by Jesus and his ministry. Every time that He fulfilled prophecy by a miracle, or act, or a teaching, He was confirming that the covenants were in force.

If Jesus had only died and not confirmed the promises made by the covenants, including the promises made in the Law of Moses, then He would not have confirmed the covenants, by not keeping the promises that were in those covenants. 

The confirming of the covenant(s) took longer than just one day. 

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Remember that Jesus lived under the Law. He told souls to obey the Law  of Moses.

He also taught that salvation required more than the Law, Lk 18:18-23.

Think about this, From Adam to the before the Law of Moses, souls were saved by love, faith, and grace. 

When the Law came, it could not save anyone, so souls were saved by love, faith, and grace.

When the new Pentecost gospel kingdom came, souls were saved by love, faith, and grace.

Did things really change that much?

 

On 11/9/2024 at 6:27 PM, douggg said:

  A person cannot be saved by the Law.

I agree that a person is not saved by the Law of Moses.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 6:27 PM, douggg said:

The covenant of God in Christ is based on faith, not works of the law.   And by Christ, we receive the Spirit, who perfects us.   Galatians 3:5

God had preached the good news, i.e. gospel, of justification by faith to Abraham, by which God would justify the heathen through faith.    And because of Abraham's faith in God's promises, also likewise by faith all nations shall be blessed.   Galatians 3:8

Paul was preaching in Galatians 3, that they should maintain that their justification before God is based on faith of what Christ did on the cross, becoming a curse for us because of our failure to keep the law.     Faith, not by works of the Law, is the basis of Salvation.

Jesus confirmed that covenant of Salvation based on faith, in one day, that day He died on the cross for atonement of our sins.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 6:27 PM, douggg said:

It has nothing to do with the seven years in Daniel 9:27.

Jesus confirmed the covenant and the promises made in the covenant(s) for 7 years until the majority of Israel rejected the covenant that Jesus confirmed by persecuting and killing Christians.

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Dan 9, Jesus comes to Israel beginning at the end of the 69thth week, at the beginning of the 70th week. 1 week to go, 7 years.

He is cut off at the middle of the 70th week, so the 70 week cycle was at  70 1/2 weeks at that time, 33 1/2 AD, 3 1/2 years left.

Israel breaks the covenant that Jesus confirmed at the end of the 70th week, 37 AD.

As a result, Jerusalem and the temple were desolated in 70 AD ish, as history shows.

The prophecy was fulfilled just exactly as it was supposed to be.

---

There is absolutely Nothing in the Dan 9 prophecy that indicates any gap.

That is an assumption that cannot be sustained by scripture.

[WilliamL]

On 11/8/2024 at 3:02 AM, Diaste said:

Fact is, Rome was always pantheistic, and you just proved that.

Absolutely true, and completely irrelevant to the issue; which was that the Roman covenant with Herod and the Jews thereafter was that they were exclusively  allowed, out of all the peoples of the Empire, to be solely monotheistic.

Have you forgot that that was the issue? and how it related to Daniel 9:27's "covenant with many"?

[abcdef]

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

The "for seven years" in Daniel 9:27 is not how long the confirmation process is. 

Dan 9:27, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: ...."

"He will confirm the covenant" for 7 years, means that "he" continues and keeps the covenant in place, honors it, continues to keep the requirements and conditions of the covenant, honors the agreement of it, maintains it, enforces it for 7 years.

This was done by Jesus/God for 7 years beginning when Jesus arrived at His ministry.

For 7 years, Jesus/God kept His side of the covenant and the promises to Israel until the majority of Israel broke the covenant.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

But instead is the how often, the cycle, that the confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant should be done according to the law that Moses made in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

Every 7 years, according to the requirement made by Moses, the leaders of Israel were to address the nation of Israel, from the place of God's choosing, and remind the nation that God gave the children of Israel the land of Israel as theirs for ever.

The land that was given to Israel was taken away because of sin when Babylon began the times of the gentiles and the gold began in the statue of Dan 2.

The land (Jerusalem) is given back to them just before the stone strikes in Dan 2.

The land, the material land, material Jerusalem, will be turned to fire when the stone strikes and the elements melt with fervent heat.

Then is the new earth and heavens that will be completely spiritual. The material will fly away like chaff on the threshing floor, Dan 2:35, Rev 20:11.

So the promise of the material land being forever is not really what is being promised, it is the eternal spiritual city that Abraham looked for.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

I have discussed with Jews (Judaism) what they consider the place of God's choosing is today in modern times, and they said the temple mount.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

So from there, the Antichrist, newly anointed king of Israel,

Israel has already proclaimed the Antichrist as their king, 

Jn 19:15, " ..., We have no king but Caesar."

Rome is the 4th beast of Dan 7, and the "head" of the Roman beast is Caesar.

Titus is the Antichrist (Son of Perdition, son of Caesar) who desolated Jerusalem in 70 AD ish, but the line of Antichrists is many. From 63 BC until today, the line of Antichrists continues, unbroken by Rome. The common thread through all of them is Caesar worship. 

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

will make the big speech - which will begin the 7 year 70th week.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

Of course that sort of speech has not been done ever since the Muslims took control of the temple mount. 

Since 70 AD ish when the Romans desolated Jerusalem. The Islamic religion came later.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

    But because of the Gog/Magog event, the Muslim presence on the temple mount will be gone, creating an environment whereby the speech can be made.

There are 2 Magog events described.

Firt is Ezek 38-39, and the second is Rev 20.

The Ezek 38 war is fought with bows, arrows, spears and such. It happened long ago, it's history. It ends with the enemies destroyed in the mountains before they reach Jerusalem.

 The second Magog war of Rev 20 is going on now. It ends with Jerusalem surrounded, the second resurrection, then followed by the fire from heaven and last judgment.

Rev 16:13-16, shows that it is not the beast who conquers Jerusalem. The dragon beast deceives the kings from across the Euphrates and their allies to do it for him.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

The 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9 are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27.     So timeline wise, the prince that shall come, will be anointed the king of Israel right after Gog/Magog, initiating both the 7 year 70th week, and also a false messianic age - with the world deluded into saying peace and safety of 1Thessalonians5:3.

The scriptures and the NT letters both describe the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. They also describe the future destruction of the restored Jerusalem at the end of the material planet. 

Sorting out the descriptions clarifies the timeline. 

The Antichrist desolates Jerusalem is 70 AD.

The Antichrist deceiving the kings across the Euphrates and their Magog allies to attack Jerusalem is happening now.

(The Vatican recognizes Palestine in 2013, the Vatican/Iran treaty, 2015. Both show Rome's hate for the children of Israel, as they have aligned/deceived the kings of the east and their allies to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem.)  

 

On 11/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, douggg said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

13 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Dan 9:27, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: ...."

"He will confirm the covenant" for 7 years, means that "he" continues and keeps the covenant in place, honors it, continues to keep the requirements and conditions of the covenant, honors the agreement of it, maintains it, enforces it for 7 years.

This was done by Jesus/God for 7 years beginning when Jesus arrived at His ministry.

For 7 years, Jesus/God kept His side of the covenant and the promises to Israel until the majority of Israel broke the covenant.

 

 

The land that was given to Israel was taken away because of sin when Babylon began the times of the gentiles and the gold began in the statue of Dan 2.

The land (Jerusalem) is given back to them just before the stone strikes in Dan 2.

The land, the material land, material Jerusalem, will be turned to fire when the stone strikes and the elements melt with fervent heat.

Then is the new earth and heavens that will be completely spiritual. The material will fly away like chaff on the threshing floor, Dan 2:35, Rev 20:11.

So the promise of the material land being forever is not really what is being promised, it is the eternal spiritual city that Abraham looked for.

 

 

Israel has already proclaimed the Antichrist as their king, 

Jn 19:15, " ..., We have no king but Caesar."

Rome is the 4th beast of Dan 7, and the "head" of the Roman beast is Caesar.

Titus is the Antichrist (Son of Perdition, son of Caesar) who desolated Jerusalem in 70 AD ish, but the line of Antichrists is many. From 63 BC until today, the line of Antichrists continues, unbroken by Rome. The common thread through all of them is Caesar worship. 

 

 

Since 70 AD ish when the Romans desolated Jerusalem. The Islamic religion came later.

 

There are 2 Magog events described.

Firt is Ezek 38-39, and the second is Rev 20.

The Ezek 38 war is fought with bows, arrows, spears and such. It happened long ago, it's history. It ends with the enemies destroyed in the mountains before they reach Jerusalem.

 The second Magog war of Rev 20 is going on now. It ends with Jerusalem surrounded, the second resurrection, then followed by the fire from heaven and last judgment.

Rev 16:13-16, shows that it is not the beast who conquers Jerusalem. The dragon beast deceives the kings from across the Euphrates and their allies to do it for him.

 

The scriptures and the NT letters both describe the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. They also describe the future destruction of the restored Jerusalem at the end of the material planet. 

Sorting out the descriptions clarifies the timeline. 

The Antichrist desolates Jerusalem is 70 AD.

The Antichrist deceiving the kings across the Euphrates and their Magog allies to attack Jerusalem is happening now.

(The Vatican recognizes Palestine in 2013, the Vatican/Iran treaty, 2015. Both show Rome's hate for the children of Israel, as they have aligned/deceived the kings of the east and their allies to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem.)  

 

 

If you do not mind, I would like to add a very important point regarding the “confirmation of the Covenant (New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34). There is a mistranslation in these important MESSIANIC verses: Verses 9:24-27 speak of the restoration of His people and His city. It discusses the physical and literal elements that are to restored after the Jews return to Jerusalem. This is what the 70 weeks of years prophecy is all about. Before the end of the 69th week, all the elements would be fully restored in Jerusalem except for ONE item- the Ark of the Covenant. The Jews were tasked to complete all the physical elements in this restoration process but they had no ability to restore the Ark. Only God could do this! So, on the very first day of the 70th week of the prophecy, Jesus arrived and would be baptized and anointed. This began HIS SEVEN YEAR MINISTRY (the last 7 years were set aside by God for Him to complete / fulfill His parts in the restoration process. 
 

It was Jesus who came to confirm the New Covenant and He would and did fulfill that DURING / WITHIN this last 7 year period. There is NO 7 year agreement but an agreement or covenant that HE confirmed DURING THOSE LAST SEVEN YEARS OF THE PROPHECY. 
 

There is NO “FOR” in this verse. The true interpretation / meaning is that HE (9:27), the Messiah will confirm the New Covenant in (within) this final prophetic week. 
 

 

[douggg]

12 hours ago, abcdef said:

There is absolutely Nothing in the Dan 9 prophecy that indicates any gap.

That is an assumption that cannot be sustained by scripture.

Is there a gap between Jesus's first coming and Jesus's second coming ?

[abcdef]

20 minutes ago, douggg said:

Is there a gap between Jesus's first coming and Jesus's second coming ?

Yes there is a time between the first coming of Jesus and when He comes for the kingdom.

But still, there is no indication of a gap of 1900 years in the scripture of Dan 9:25-27.

The events shown take place after the 69th week ends when Jesus comes to Israel.

Jesus/God brings the gentile Roman armies to desolate Jerusalem as He had done before when Israel turned from God. 

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Caesar and the Bishop of Rome are the Antichrist. The 1900 year gap theory is designed to hide that fact.

They say, "Caesar and the Bishop of Rome can't be the Antichrist, because the Antichrist has not been revealed yet."

He was revealed when Jerusalem fell in 70 AD when Rome desolated the city.

The religion of Rome was Caesar worship. The religion of the Vatican is Caesar worship with the Bishop of Rome as Caesar.

"You are not a Christian unless you are Roman Catholic", they say.

If you believe that, then you must bow down and submit to the Bishop of Rome, submit to the Vatican's teachings, confess that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the kingdom, and take the mark of Rome on your forehead every ash Wednesday. 

Think about it.

 

20 minutes ago, douggg said:

 

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Caesar and the Bishop of Rome are the Antichrist.

No, the Antichrist has to be a Jew and his religion initially Judaism.    Someone that the Jews will receive as their king of Israel, thought to be messiah.

In addition to being a Jew, the person will be descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline in order to fulfill Revelation 17:10.