Has the 70th week of Daniel begun?

[SACREDWARRIOR]

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Wait a minute. You said:

"IF YOU READ CAREFULLY, the "HE" IS JESUS AND THE TEMPLE DESOLATION (making it null and void) WAS THE RENDING OF THE CURTAIN SEPARATING THE HOLY OF HOLIES!!!"

Are you saying that Jesus caused the Temple to be desolate?

Now you want to claim that it is the Romans.

Maybe, I'm not following you. Can you clarify your position so I can use the proper scripture to disprove what you have said?

LOL to disprove me !!!,

IN DANIEL 9:27 THE "HE" IS JESUS AT HIS RESURRECTION...THE TEMPLE WAS MADE DESOATE (non functioning) when the curtain/veil was torn in two....so that the high priest could no longer go and offer sacrifices......

 

 

the destruction of the Temple later under Titus, is/was not the abomination of desolation....it was simple the fulfillment of JESUS prophecy that one stone would not be left upon another....

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!

Clarence

[Diaste]

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

Wow. You don't think Jesus built the Church? This verse shows that Jesus WLL BUILD THE CHURCH. It did not begin with Abraham like you claim.

You're obfuscating. Please stay in the context of what I said.

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

Matthew 16

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Faith and belief is the rock in this passage.

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

Abraham over Jesus? We must have different Bibles.

Strawman. I said nothing of the sort. Stay in context.

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

The fact you are not watching as instructed will not keep the rapture of the Church from happening before the Great Tribulation.

I am watching. You cannot. For a pretrib rapture nothing can occur beforehand, it is imminent and secret. You watch for nothing. 

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

The great multitude comes from gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Those that come out of Great Tribulation are gathered from the earth.

 

If you would but read Rev 7, the only group ever pictured in heaven about the throne with white robes basking in the glory of God, came out from within GT.

There is no enormous group from all time pictured anywhere. That is one shining omission. 

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

To your understanding.

A scriptural understanding based on the written word in the text. 

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

I use KJV. It says that the woman, Israel, will be in her place of protection for a time, times and half a time. They don't flee when Jesus comes. They run to greet Him.

Nope. Two different events. That was explained. The woman fleeing is one thing when the beast attacks. The other is those in the city that flee when Jesus returns. However, you miss an important point:

And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

15Then from the mouth of the serpent spewed water like a river to overtake the woman and sweep her away in the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth to swallow up the river that had poured from the dragon’s mouth. 17And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

 

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

The first fruits are the first fruits of the harvest. There is more than one harvest according to the feasts of God.

There aren't. That's all been fulfilled. 

On 11/1/2024 at 7:57 AM, The Light said:

The Word shows that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth before the harvest. This harvest is the fruit harvest.

No. They are labeled. There is no description of when. No harvest is mentioned, only that they are redeemed from among men. The most that is said is they are "firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.". There is no mention of an early, mid or late harvest or any other made up dispensational ideological doctrine.

Biblically, firstfruits is the first and best of the impending harvest from which the firstfruits are taken. It's not a separate harvest, it's the prime crop and the first cutting to be given to God, of the entire crop ready to harvest. 

Whatever it is you're saying isn't in the scripture as a template. 

[WilliamL]

On 11/1/2024 at 3:59 AM, Diaste said:

I am aware, but I don't think that was some ad hoc concession to the Jewish religion. Rome was a polytheistic society. They didn't care who you worshipped...

They most certainly cared about whom you worshiped; namely the Emperor. The Jews were the only people in the Empire who were allowed to worship only their own god. That was the covenant King Herod made with the Romans, who continued to honor it.

On 11/1/2024 at 7:30 AM, The Light said:

There is still one stone upon another. The destruction of the Temple is a future event that will occur at the end of the age.

Please provide your evidence to show that original stones of Herod's Temple complex are still standing. I've never heard of any such evidence, nor of anyone claiming this.

Luke 21:5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

On 11/1/2024 at 7:30 AM, The Light said:

Is this verse true or is it in error?

2 Timothy 3

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, but, being inspired and being absolutely perfect in transmission of that inspiration are two different things.

The OT authors, when speaking as prophets, were merely writing down what they were told by the voice of God. The NT authors operated differently:

1 Cor. 14:32 ...the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

And prophets, like all other men, are never perfect. As are not memories of events; which is why there are a number of discrepancies in the details about events and their timing in the Gospels and elsewhere. For just one example: the details about Jesus' cursing of the unfruitful fig tree vary in Mark 11:12ff, Matt. 21:12ff., and Luke 19:45ff. Anyone who has deeply studied the Word has discovered other such examples. John in his gospel, written last, corrects some errors and ambiguities in the previous three Gospels about the events of Jesus' last week in Bethany and Jerusalem.

 

[The Light]

On 11/3/2024 at 2:20 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

LOL to disprove me !!!,

I thought that would give you a chuckle. LOL

On 11/3/2024 at 2:20 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

IN DANIEL 9:27 THE "HE" IS JESUS AT HIS RESURRECTION...THE TEMPLE WAS MADE DESOATE (non functioning) when the curtain/veil was torn in two....so that the high priest could no longer go and offer sacrifices......

Here is Daniel 9:27

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You cannot possibly be correct. What covenant did Jesus make for one week? God makes eternal covenants. Unless you can come up with a covenant that Jesus made for one week, you are in error.

Secondly, the sacrifice did not stop when Jesus died. The sacrifice of animals continued up until the time that the Temple was destroyed.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 2:20 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

 

the destruction of the Temple later under Titus, is/was not the abomination of desolation....it was simple the fulfillment of JESUS prophecy that one stone would not be left upon another....

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!

Clarence

This is a false conclusion. You want to claim Jesus confirmed a covenant with many which you will not be able to show this one week covenant. You also claim that the sacrifice will cease when it did not cease until 40 or so years later. Then you want get off the Jesus angle and switch to Titus. This is totally illogical.

Then you want to claim that there is not one stone upon another, which is incorrect. If you think that the one stone upon another prophecy has been fulfulled, WHAT SIGN WAS THERE WHEN THE PROPHECY WAS FULLFILLED?

Luke 21

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Your conclusion on this do not hold up against scripture, but I look forward to your attempts to answer What 7 year covenant did Jesus make?

And what sign occurred when there was not one stone upon another?

[The Light]

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

You're obfuscating. Please stay in the context of what I said.

I think I was perfectly clear and I noticed that you could not address the point I made. You claimed that the Church began when Abraham believed God and the Word says that Jesus will build HIS Church. 

According to scripture, you are in error. Accept the facts and move on.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

Faith and belief is the rock in this passage.

And whose Church is it? and who will build it?

Accept your error and move on.

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

Strawman. I said nothing of the sort. Stay in context.

Strawman? I produced scripture that says it is Jesus Church and He will build it. You claim that the Church began when Abraham believed but there is no scripture to support your position.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

I am watching. You cannot. For a pretrib rapture nothing can occur beforehand, it is imminent and secret. You watch for nothing. 

Jesus tells us to watch so we can escape ALL THESE THINGS and stand before the Son of man. 

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I think this is cut and dried.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

 

 

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

 

Nope. Two different events. That was explained. The woman fleeing is one thing when the beast attacks. The other is those in the city that flee when Jesus returns. However, you miss an important point:

And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

15Then from the mouth of the serpent spewed water like a river to overtake the woman and sweep her away in the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth to swallow up the river that had poured from the dragon’s mouth. 17And the dragon was enraged at the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. 

The seed of the woman is the 12 tribes across the earth. There are 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes meaning there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth.

Revelation 12

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That harvest is seen here

Revelation 12

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

 

No. They are labeled. There is no description of when. No harvest is mentioned, only that they are redeemed from among men. The most that is said is they are "firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.". There is no mention of an early, mid or late harvest or any other made up dispensational ideological doctrine.

The harvest follows first fruits.

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

Biblically, firstfruits is the first and best of the impending harvest from which the firstfruits are taken. It's not a separate harvest, it's the prime crop and the first cutting to be given to God, of the entire crop ready to harvest. 

Exactly. First fruits are the first fruits of a harvest. The harvest will follow.

On 11/3/2024 at 10:32 AM, Diaste said:

 

 

[The Light]

On 11/3/2024 at 1:49 PM, WilliamL said:

 

Please provide your evidence to show that original stones of Herod's Temple complex are still standing. I've never heard of any such evidence, nor of anyone claiming this.

Luke 21:5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

I have never seen anyone that can show the sign that occurred when there shall not be one stone upon another.

Luke 21

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

If Jesus prophecy has been fulfilled what was the sign that occurred when these things came to pass?

 

Mark 13

1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Is not the Wailing Wall part of the buildings of the Temple? There is still one stone upon another.

On 11/3/2024 at 1:49 PM, WilliamL said:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, but, being inspired and being absolutely perfect in transmission of that inspiration are two different things.

The OT authors, when speaking as prophets, were merely writing down what they were told by the voice of God. The NT authors operated differently:

1 Cor. 14:32 ...the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

And prophets, like all other men, are never perfect. As are not memories of events; which is why there are a number of discrepancies in the details about events and their timing in the Gospels and elsewhere. For just one example: the details about Jesus' cursing of the unfruitful fig tree vary in Mark 11:12ff, Matt. 21:12ff., and Luke 19:45ff. Anyone who has deeply studied the Word has discovered other such examples. John in his gospel, written last, corrects some errors and ambiguities in the previous three Gospels about the events of Jesus' last week in Bethany and Jerusalem.

 

If you have any specific examples of any errors in scripture, I would like to see them.

[SACREDWARRIOR]

19 hours ago, The Light said:

You cannot possibly be correct. What covenant did Jesus make for one week? God makes eternal covenants. Unless you can come up with a covenant that Jesus made for one week, you are in error.

Let Me start by clarifying, ONE WEEK, that phrase most often refers back to DANIEL where AN ANGEL declares 70 weeks have been determined for YOUR PEOPLE (JEWS), and at the time of the angelic visitation to Daniel He was contemplating an earlier prophecy given through JEREMIAH.

 The angel explains that the weeks are symbolic of YEARS, we know that at the time of Christ ISRAEL was in the MIDST OF THE 69TH WEEK OF YEARS, LEAVING ONE FINAL CYCLE A 7 YEAR PERIOD to yet fulfill the prophecy of Daniel.

the argument with those who study scripture involves, when does or did, the 70th week of years (Daniel) begin / begins.

 I hold to what is known as a PARTIAL PRETERIST view, meaning that I believe that the 70th week has been PARTIALLY FULFILLED. but a remainder of it is yet to come to pass...The pause in the 70th week of Daniel occurred, at the death of CHRIST....as stated in Daniels prophecy "MESSIAH WILL BE CUT OFF AND HAVE NOTHING..."

i AGREE that it is likely that sacrifices would have continued after Jesus death and following ...up to the time that Titus destroyed the temple, but, the sacrifices would be rendered invalid and sacrilege, in light of JESUS DEATH AND RESURRECTION, (propitiation) for all men then and future.\

 as part of the OLIVET DISCOURSE (MATTHEW 24, LUKE 21. ETC  ) THREE QUESTIONS ARE BROUGHT TO JESUS.

 as they are walking the disciples brting Jesus' attention to the beautiful temple in all its adornment...and JESUS TELLS THEM "...I TELL YOU THAT ONE STONE SHALL NOT BE LEFT UPON ANOTHER..... referring to a future destruction of the temple they were speaking of...

 Then three questions are posed to JESUS,

1." TELL US WHEN WILL THESE THINGS HAPPEN (THE TEMPLES DESTRUCTION)?

2. "WHAT WILL BE THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING"?

3. WHAT WILL BE TE SIGN OF THE END OF THE AGE?

Jesus then begins, answering their questions....

 

 what I indicated, is the destruction of the temple brought about by TITUS is not part of the 70 weeks, per se' it is rather a direct answer to the disciples question.

 the 70 weeks are discussed after Jesus answers with the "..NOT ONE STONE COMMENT.."

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION SOON ROARS!!,

 Clarence

 

 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, The Light said:

I think I was perfectly clear and I noticed that you could not address the point I made. You claimed that the Church began when Abraham believed God and the Word says that Jesus will build HIS Church. 

According to scripture, you are in error. Accept the facts and move on.

Thanks for your time. I'm out. 

[Diaste]

On 11/3/2024 at 12:49 PM, WilliamL said:

On 11/1/2024 at 3:59 AM, Diaste said:

I am aware, but I don't think that was some ad hoc concession to the Jewish religion. Rome was a polytheistic society. They didn't care who you worshipped...

They most certainly cared about whom you worshiped; namely the Emperor. The Jews were the only people in the Empire who were allowed to worship only their own god. That was the covenant King Herod made with the Romans, who continued to honor it.

Not true. This is an easy thing to suss out.

"In many societies, ancient and modern, religion has performed a major role in their development, and the Roman Empire was no different. From the beginning Roman Religion was polytheistic. From an initial array of gods and spirits, Rome added to this collection to include both Greek gods as well as a number of foreign cults. As the empire expanded, the Romans refrained from imposing their own religious beliefs upon those they conquered; "

https://www.worldhistory.org/Roman_Religion/

[WilliamL]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Is not the Wailing Wall part of the buildings of the Temple? There is still one stone upon another.

No. It is a foundation wall of the Temple Mount, but was neither part of nor connected to the Temple complex of structures.

18 hours ago, The Light said:

On 11/3/2024 at 12:49 PM, WilliamL said:

there are a number of discrepancies in the details about events and their timing in the Gospels and elsewhere. For just one example: the details about Jesus' cursing of the unfruitful fig tree vary in Mark 11:12ff, Matt. 21:12ff., and Luke 19:45ff. Anyone who has deeply studied the Word has discovered other such examples. John in his gospel, written last, corrects some errors and ambiguities in the previous three Gospels about the events of Jesus' last week in Bethany and Jerusalem.

If you have any specific examples of any errors in scripture, I would like to see them.

I've already provided some example of discrepancies. Matthew 24:3 records Jesus's disciples as asking, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your Parousia, and of the end of the age?” Whereas Luke 21:7 records the disciples as asking, "So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”

The second question of Matthew 24 is categorically different from the second question of Luke 21.

In the accounts of Jesus entering into Jerusalem on the donkey, Mark says

Mark 11:11 Jesus went into Jerusalem and into the temple. So when He had looked around at all things, as the hour was already late, He went out to Bethany with the twelve. 12 Now the next day, ... 15 Jesus went into the temple and began to drive out those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers...

Whereas Matthew says, and Luke similarly, that

Matt. 21:10 ...when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this? 11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. 12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers...

Mark here is correct about the dates. Jesus did not cast out the moneychangers on the same day he rode on the colt, because that day was a Sabbath, when there was no buying and selling allowed. Matthew and Luke erroneously ran the events of two different days together.