Altering God's Word

[other one]

On 10/29/2024 at 6:26 AM, Neighbor said:

Hi, Would you please expand on the above quote to clarify in what way and or why is every Bible translation not perfect?

I would ask everyone not to post things that would make new Christians or seekers not trust the Bible, even though we have many translations.

[WilliamL]

20 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

I want examples of how the new Bibles change the word, please.

Biblical Scholarship is not an idle discipline.   There may not even be a problem.

Mr. M answers some of your question. The short answer is, there is always a problem in translating, because there is never a simple one word-to-one word translation from one language to another.

Here is what I wrote about translating in one of my blogs:

Bible translators have always had to deal with this issue: how to balance between accuracy and brevity. Translations that lean too heavily toward brevity become over-simplified at best, and grossly inaccurate at worst. On the other hand, highly accurate translations become overly wordy, and thus boring or confusing to the average reader.

The translatorʼs dilemma is compounded when he has no clear understanding of the doctrine or prophecy being expressed! In such cases, the interpretation often reflects the presumptions of the translator. Which presumptions are then used by others as the basis for their own misguided teachings, some of them becoming entrenched Church doctrines.

For much of the Bible, a translation that provides the basic meaning of the text is sufficient. But when it comes to texts that deal with prophecy and doctrine, every nuance of vocabulary, tense, and syntax becomes critical, and should never be ignored or glossed over.

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

 

...paraphrases sacrifice historical precision for contemporary relevance. ...

 

The King James Version and the New King James Version are examples of word-for-word translations. ...

First sentence sums up much of what I wrote above.

The KJV and NKJV only sometimes are word-for-word translations. In some cases, they go far astray from the original meaning of the text. The classic example is where the KJV translates, in Acts 12:4, the Greek word pascha/Passover as "Easter"! Laughable, but a good example of a translator's religious bias.

The only truly accurate texts are the originals, but hardly anyone is able to read biblical Greek and Hebrew anymore, including pastors. So the best advice I can give to the average Bible student is to compare a number of different versions whenever a passage is obscure, suspicious, or a critical teaching, or a critical prophecy.

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

So the best advice I can give to the average Bible student is to compare a number of different versions whenever a passage is obscure, suspicious, or a critical teaching, or a critical prophecy.

I used a couple of different parallel Bibles early on. Then I changed my method under the Spirit's guidance, which I gladly share. Let's say you are looking at just such an obscure passage, what I do is check the nouns and verbs used in that verse, and make a comparison to how and where that Greek or Hebrew word is used throughout the New or Old Testaments.

Instead of comparing translations, compare scripture to scripture to confirm word meanings by two, or three witnesses. For example, an important yet highly neglected subject in the Bible is the Hebrew word zakar=remember, and derivatives such as Memorial and Remembrance. Remembering is a highly critical role fulfilled by the Holy Spirit, and these words appear in both Old and New, over 200 times. A thorough study of just these words would confirm what you have said about the complications between brevity and accuracy. 

[BornAgain490]

On 10/29/2024 at 12:45 PM, Mr. M said:

All speculation about scripture is altering God's Word,

The KJB translators would not agree with this statement. All one needs to do is read the 1611 KJB "The Translators  to the Reader", and take notice of the marginal notes in the 1611 edition. The KJB translators struggled among themselves, speculating with what they believed were accurate translations of Hebrew and Greek words and phrases. 

[WilliamL]

9 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I used a couple of different parallel Bibles early on. Then I changed my method under the Spirit's guidance, which I gladly share. Let's say you are looking at just such an obscure passage, what I do is check the nouns and verbs used in that verse, and make a comparison to how and where that Greek or Hebrew word is used throughout the New or Old Testaments.

Which means you are using one or more Bible concordances, either online or book.

Which is the next step in the development of one's biblical literacy; one that I cannot recommend too highly to believers in the faith.

The following step is to learn biblical Greek and Hebrew grammar. For which there are excellent texts available. I recommend Basics of Biblical Greek and Basics of Biblical Grammar.

 

[Mr. M]

6 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

The KJB translators struggled among themselves, speculating with what they believed were accurate translations of Hebrew and Greek words and phrases. 

You are applying my statement inaccurately. Translators struggling for accuracy is not the speculation I am referring to at all. I am referring to the offer of "humble opinions" in speculating on scriptural meaning, without the due diligence you are assigning to the KJV translators, which I agree with and is my preferred translation. Although, I often cite from the NKJV out of consideration for others who don't want to revisit 1611 English.

[BornAgain490]

4 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Translators struggling for accuracy is not the speculation I am referring to

Speculation on what a foreign word actually means, and how that word should be translated into English, is precisely what the KJB translators struggled with in many verses.  Again, read the "Letter to the Readers" and the 1611 marginal notes. 

[Mr. M]

3 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Speculation on what a foreign word actually means, and how that word should be translated into English, is precisely what the KJB translators struggled with in many verses.  Again, read the "Letter to the Readers" and the 1611 marginal notes. 

You clearly do not know the definition of speculation,

and Biblical translators would object to your characterization.

 

spec·u·la·tion

/ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/

noun

 

1. 1.

   the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

[BornAgain490]

2 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

You clearly do not know the definition of speculation,

and Biblical translators would object to your characterization.

 

spec·u·la·tion

/ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/

 

noun

 

1. 1.

   the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Quite.  My guess is you've not read the 1611 "Letter to the Readers" or the 1611 marginal notes.  Please do so. 

[Mr. M]

3 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Quite.  My guess is you've not read the 1611 "Letter to the Readers" or the 1611 marginal notes.  Please do so. 

Come on now. Give me a clue here.

Do they refer to their work as speculation?

I am not at all impressed with the need

to read the 1611 letter to the readers.

You have misunderstood and misrepresented 

my every post, ignoring the scriptures referenced,

and you think I will come to see your POV?

Your arguments against my posts are growing

more and more moot to me and I will end the discussion.