Daniel 8-Clarifying some entities and events during the end times.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

Yes, I would like to see others opinions backed by scripture indicating Daniel chapters 7 through 12 being other than end time events.

Great and thank you. I guess the first thing to do is to try and learn what each believes to be the “big picture” or the main purpose for the Book of Daniel. That was extremely helpful for me to have a good understanding of the “picture” on the outside of this 1000 piece puzzle box. 

I have found that Daniel covers the period from the time in Babylon to the end of time when Jesus will return.

Having said that, almost all of Daniel covers from Babylon to the prophecy that directly speaks to their “restoration” from their 70 year exile. 

The most important segment, and largest segment in Daniel covers the 70 weeks of years prophecy which began in 457 BC and ended 490 years later in 33/34 AD. This means that Jesus had arrived in the 4th kingdom period of pagan Rome, and was crucified exactly 3.5 years BEFORE the end of the last week in the prophecy. 
 

So, I would like to know if you agree with the above opinion or offer your own before we move forward… 

 

 

 

[luigi]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Great and thank you. I guess the first thing to do is to try and learn what each believes to be the “big picture” or the main purpose for the Book of Daniel. That was extremely helpful for me to have a good understanding of the “picture” on the outside of this 1000 piece puzzle box. 

I have found that Daniel covers the period from the time in Babylon to the end of time when Jesus will return.

Having said that, almost all of Daniel covers from Babylon to the prophecy that directly speaks to their “restoration” from their 70 year exile. 

The most important segment, and largest segment in Daniel covers the 70 weeks of years prophecy which began in 457 BC and ended 490 years later in 33/34 AD. This means that Jesus had arrived in the 4th kingdom period of pagan Rome, and was crucified exactly 3.5 years BEFORE the end of the last week in the prophecy. 
 

So, I would like to know if you agree with the above opinion or offer your own before we move forward… 

 

 

 

Very true,

Chapter 9 does include the time frame of 490 years until Jesus' time, and so is not about the end times, until verses 9:26-27, which are about the final week (seven years) before the Lord commences to reign.

If you look closely at verse 9:27 in which the abomination of desolation appears, you will see this verse correlating with verses 8:13-14, with the transgression of desolation that is carried out by the little horn (aka the Antichrist). Daniel 9:27 therefore confirms the events in Daniel 8 as future end time events. And the Lord provides yet more corroboration for these events being the same and occurring during the end times in Daniel 11:31, where the abomination of desolation is described again.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 8:13  Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, luigi said:

Very true,

Chapter 9 does include the time frame of 490 years until Jesus' time, and so is not about the end times, until verses 9:26-27, which are about the final week (seven years) before the Lord commences to reign.

If you look closely at verse 9:27 in which the abomination of desolation appears, you will see this verse correlating with verses 8:13-14, with the transgression of desolation that is carried out by the little horn (aka the Antichrist). Daniel 9:27 therefore confirms the events in Daniel 8 as future end time events. And the Lord provides yet more corroboration for these events being the same and occurring during the end times in Daniel 11:31, where the abomination of desolation is described again.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 8:13  Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

That was very nice and I appreciate learning your thoughts!

It is quite rare to see someone have more than an opinion or more than what they may have heard or read about from other folks (who simply looked at the guys paper across the isle). 
 

This is something we can discuss. Before I can respond,  would you say that the verse 8:13-14 represents the first verse that you connect others to that tell you these are end time events? Is there anything in Chapters 2 or 7 that confirm Daniel is speaking about end times? 
 

I can certainly agree that Chapter 12 is end time statements- although God does not go into details, and certainly there are “comments” made throughout Daniel that speak of the end but that is not what I am referring to in the above question. 
 

Let me know and we can continue this … it should be interesting!

 

[Diaste]

On 11/12/2024 at 9:07 PM, luigi said:

When the Lord commands the angel Gabriel to acquaint Daniel with the meaning of the visions shown him regarding a ram with two horns, and a rough he goat with a notable horn (Daniel 8:16); Gabriel starts by informing Daniel that these visions shown him regard the end times (Daniel 8:17 & 19). Gabriel then goes on to inform Daniel that the ram and its two horns are the kings of Media and Persia (Daniel 8:20), while the rough he goat is the king of Greecia, and the great horn between his eyes is the first king (Daniel 8:21). As these events regard the end times, I then surmise that the lands of Media and Persia which no longer exist, correlate with the lands of Iraq and Iran of today where the lands of Media and Persia previously existed.

 

On 11/12/2024 at 9:07 PM, luigi said:

In regards to the metaphorical rough he goat described as the land of Greecia; the rough he goat traverses the whole earth from the West without touching the ground, and annihilates the ram with its two horns (Daniel 8:5-7). As the actual land of Greece is relatively next door to Iraq and Iran, and would not traverse the entire earth from the West to annihilate Iraq and Iran; I then surmise Greecia to be yet another metaphor for a land that would be on the other side of the earth from Iraq and Iran, in order for the rough he goat to traverse the whole earth from the West.

Even if halfway round the world, that still would not be 'the whole earth'. That part of the verse is better understood as, 'presence in the region'. You see, the text says 'Greece' and 'the king of Greece'. With that important point critical to context, 'erets' has to be understood as more like 'region' or 'area' and is not the entire surface of the whole of the ground under our feet

On 11/12/2024 at 9:07 PM, luigi said:

Another important issue is the description of the rough he goat being the king of Greecia, and its great horn between its eyes being the first king (Daniel 8:21). As the ram with its two horns are the kings of Media and Persia is understood to represent these nations kingdoms/governments (Iraq and Iran); so too then would the rough he goat described as the king of Greecia, and its great horn described as its first king; correlate representing this nations kingdom/government. With this understanding, the description of the rough he goat and its great horn being the first king, is understood being its kingdom/government. It is this first kingdom/government that traverses whole earth from the West to annihilate Iraq and Iran, that afterwards collapses/secedes into four new types of government (Daniel 8:8).

The text says 'king', translated from 'melek', which is king. What you are saying would sound like 'kingdoms of kingdoms' and not the proper 'king of a kingdom'.

The text says, "The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21The shaggy goat represents the king of Greece,b and the large horn between his eyes is the first king."

Gabriel is pointing out the kings that rule over kingdoms, not the administration or the realm, the king. 

There is no correlating 'melek' with 'malkuth' as equivalent, they two different ideas. I assume this is so we know what kingdoms and when the prophecy will come to pass, leaving no doubt as to 'when'.

 

 

 

On 11/12/2024 at 9:07 PM, luigi said:

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. 

Daniel 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

 

[luigi]

13 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

That was very nice and I appreciate learning your thoughts!

It is quite rare to see someone have more than an opinion or more than what they may have heard or read about from other folks (who simply looked at the guys paper across the isle). 
 

This is something we can discuss. Before I can respond,  would you say that the verse 8:13-14 represents the first verse that you connect others to that tell you these are end time events? Is there anything in Chapters 2 or 7 that confirm Daniel is speaking about end times? 
 

I can certainly agree that Chapter 12 is end time statements- although God does not go into details, and certainly there are “comments” made throughout Daniel that speak of the end but that is not what I am referring to in the above question. 
 

Let me know and we can continue this … it should be interesting!

 

Daniel 8:13-14 are  not the first verses by which I connect other verses telling me these are events occur during the end times. I have stated this in the OP and several other posts here. The ram with two horns (Dan 8:3-4), and the he goat with the notable horn between his eyes (Dan 8:5), are according to Gabriel the kingdoms of Media, Persia, and Greecia during these end times.

As for the events in Daniel 2 and 7 that confirm Daniel is speaking about the end times; in Daniel 2, we see that after the kingdoms of this world come to a close, the Lord then commences to reign (Daniel 2:44). While some say the Lord is reigning now, others like myself believe this world to be Satan's currently, and Lord currently to be sitting at the Lord Almighty's right hand until He makes this current world the Lords footstool.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

As for Daniel 7 confirming Daniel is speaking about the end times; here we see the kingdoms of the world, currently under Satan's rule, cast down by the Almighty, with the Lord then commencing to rule (Daniel 7:9). Additionally, in Dan 7 we see the little horn, who also appears in Dan 8.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

As for your claim that God does not go into details in Daniel 12; the data spoken of in Daniel 12, primarily consists of the visions shown Daniel in chapter 11, which goes into much detail, albeit vague.

[luigi]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

Even if halfway round the world, that still would not be 'the whole earth'. That part of the verse is better understood as, 'presence in the region'. You see, the text says 'Greece' and 'the king of Greece'. With that important point critical to context, 'erets' has to be understood as more like 'region' or 'area' and is not the entire surface of the whole of the ground under our feet

 

 

 

 

 

Good day Diaste,

In the OP I point out how the ram and its two horns represent the kingdoms of Media and Persia in Daniel 8:20, and the rough he goat and its great horn being the king of Greecia and its first king in Daniel 8:21, represent the metaphorical kingdom of Greecia and its initial kingdom. And while true that travelling halfway around the world would not be the whole earth; it is generally understood to represent the other side of the earth, rather than doing a 360 degree circumference of the planet.

[luigi]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

The text says 'king', translated from 'melek', which is king. What you are saying would sound like 'kingdoms of kingdoms' and not the proper 'king of a kingdom'.

The text says, "The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21The shaggy goat represents the king of Greece,b and the large horn between his eyes is the first king."

Gabriel is pointing out the kings that rule over kingdoms, not the administration or the realm, the king. 

There is no correlating 'melek' with 'malkuth' as equivalent, they two different ideas. I assume this is so we know what kingdoms and when the prophecy will come to pass, leaving no doubt as to 'when'.

 

 

 

 

Yes, Ok, and without a doubt the rulers of Media and Persia are removed from power by the ruler of Greecia; but let me ask you: Is it the king of Greecia who annihilates (the kings) of Media and Persia , or is it the kingdom of Greecia who annihilates (the kingdoms) of Media and Persia (Daniel 8:6-7)? 

Daniel 8:6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. 7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

 

[Keras]

On 11/14/2024 at 8:38 AM, Revelation Man said:

The E.U. led by a Greek President will conquer Turkey, Israel and every nation on the Mediterranean Sea Region Coastline who are called THE MANY in Dan. 9:27, Dan. 8:25 and this battle can be seen in Dan. 11:40-43. This includes Egypt, it was NEVER the Whole Earth, its the WHOLE REGION of earth being spoken about.

It is rubbish to promote the European Union as an end time entity. They are practically defunct now and they all retain their own sovereignty. 

Whereas the final World Government will be every country and they will succeed their sovereignty to one powerful man. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12-13

[Keras]

The Prophesies of Daniel

Daniel 2:20-22 Blessed be the Lord’s Name [Jesus] from age to age, for to Him belong wisdom and power. He changes seasons and times, He deposes and sets up kings. He gives wisdom

        to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment, revealing deep mysteries: in Him there is light and understanding.  Proverbs 8:12-29

Daniel 2:31-33 In your dream, your majesty, you saw a great image. The head of the image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron and its feet of part iron, part clay.

 

The Assyrian Kingdom – [Sargon]

Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion with eagles wings, then its wings were removed and it stood on two feet like a human. It was given the mind of a human.

         [This kingdom had already passed by the time of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. It conquered and sent into exile the ten Northern tribes of Israel]

 

The Babylonian Kingdom – [Nebuchadnezzar]

Daniel 2:38 You king Nebuchadnezzar, are that head of gold.

Daniel 7:5 The second beast was like a bear, it raised itself up on one side and it had three ribs in its mouth. The command was given: Get up and gorge yourself on flesh. [The Babylonian conquest of Judah]

 

The Media/Persian Kingdom  [King Cyrus]

Daniel 2:32 & 39a...its chest and arms of silver...After you another kingdom will arise that will be inferior to yours

Daniel 8:3-4 & 20 The ram with two horns, Persia and Media.

 

The Macedonian [Greek] Kingdom –. [Alexander the Great]

Daniel 2:32 & 39b ...its belly and thighs of bronze....Next a third kingdom of bronze will rule over the whole earth.

Daniel 7:6 The third beast was like a leopard with four wings like a bird, it had four heads and was given authority to rule. [Alexander’s conquest of the known world]

Daniel 8:5-8 & 20-21 The defeat of the Babylonian Empire, by Alexander. Daniel 11:2

Daniel 8:9-14 & 22 After Alexander’s death, four kingdoms are formed.

Daniel 11:3-4 One of those kings, Antiochus Epiphanes, succeeded in conquering the holy Land and he desecrated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 5:13-20 Then Judas Maccabaeus defeated him. 2 Maccabees 8:16-24 Then they rededicated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, was the time between the desecration and rededication of the Temple, circa 167BC to 164BC. This is a precursor to what will happen in the last days.

Daniel 11:5-20 This is a description of other historical battles and alliances.

 

The Roman Empire – [Julius Caesar]

Daniel 2:32-33 & 40 Finally there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, it will dominate all the others, but as its legs represent, this will be a divided kingdom – its people will be a mixture, it will not remain united. [The Western and Eastern Roman Empires]

Daniel 7:7a & 23 The fourth beast, fearsome and very powerful with great iron teeth, crushed and devoured its victims, then trampled what was left.

Daniel 9:26 After sixty two weeks, [434 years] the anointed Prince, [Jesus] will be removed and the army [of Rome] will destroy the city and the Temple. [As fulfilled in 70AD.]

 

A Last Days resurgence of Rome – [the Anti Christ]

Daniel 2:33 & 42-43...its feet of part iron and part clay....

Daniel 7:7b-8 ... the fourth beast had ten horns, another horn grew up and uprooted three of the ten. That other horn was very imposing and spoke with great power. As I watched this horn waged war on the holy ones and defeated them. Rev 17:12-13, Rev 13:5-8

Daniel 7:23-24 The explanation is this: This fourth kingdom will take over the whole earth, [The One World Government] The ten horns signify the ten divisions of the world, but another man will arise  and defeat three of the first leaders.

Daniel 11:21 Another king will come, a person not worthy of recognition, but he will seize power by intrigue and cunning.  [a clever and charismatic man]

Daniel 8:23-25 In the last days, when sin is at its height, a powerful king and a master of strategy will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does and will take control of the nations and the holy people. [all the faithful Christians, gathered in all of the holy Land] By cunning and deceit, he will destroy many when they felt secure and did not expect it. He will challenge the ‘Prince of princes’, [the Lord] yet he will be defeated, but not by human hand.

Daniel 9:27 The prince, [The world leader, descended from Rome] will make a treaty with many, [that is: not all of the Christians] for one week, [that is: seven years] but at the mid point, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings. [in the new Temple]  He will place an ‘abomination’ there, then in the end what has been decreed will come on him.

Daniel 7:25 He will defy God and take control of the holy people for 3½ years. [This is the ‘beast’ of Revelation 13:1-8. The One World leader receives a ‘mortal blow’ and his body is taken over by Satan, commencing the ‘forty two months’ Tribulation period]

Daniel 11:22-45 His army will be victorious and a leader of the Covenant people will be killed. The military forces of the South will be defeated and he will invade the Middle East, but ships of the Western nations will oppose him, so he will turn back. In the holy Land, he will vent his fury against the people who hold to the Covenant, but will show favour to those who forsake it by believing his promises.  His soldiers will desecrate the Temple, setting up an ‘abomination of desolation’. Those of the Lord’s people [Christians] who remain faithful to the Lord, will be resolute and take action. Wise leaders of the nation will guide their people, though for a time some may be killed or captured. They will receive a little help, as many who join them are insincere. This is a period of testing, of refining and purification, for the end is yet to be; at the appointed time. Daniel 7:9, Daniel 8:22, Rev. 13:8

Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Tribulation] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumours from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end.  Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21

 

The Kingdom of Jesus –                                            2 Samuel 22:32

Daniel 2:34-35 & 44-45 I saw a supernatural Rock that smashed the statue, it blew it away like chaff. Then that Rock became a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. God will set up a Kingdom that will be supreme over all other kingdoms and it will endure forever.

Daniel 7:13-14 & 26-27 The Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Gods judgement is against the Anti Christ and his kingdom is abolished. The governance  of the whole world is given to the holy people of God.   Revelation 20:6

Daniel 12:1-4 At the end of that time, [the Tribulation] Michael, the Archangel of Israel will appear, he will deliver the Lord’s people – everyone whose name is written in the Book of Life. Many of the dead will rise, some to eternal life, some to eternal abhorrence. The wise leaders, those who guided the people on the true path, will shine like stars forever.

      But you, Daniel, keep this book sealed until the time of the end. Many will try, but will not succeed to gain this knowledge.

Daniel 12:5-10 I asked: How long until the end of these things? It will be for 3½ years, [1260 days] when the holy people regain their strength. I asked: What will the outcome of all this be? Go your way, Daniel, for these prophesies are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Many people will be purified and made righteous, but the godless will keep on in their wickedness and none of them will understand.  Daniel 8:22

Daniel 12:11-12 From the time the Anti Christ sets up the ‘abomination of desolation’, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who see the completion of 1335 days!                                                                                 Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. some  verses condensed.   

The extra 30 and 75 days run concurrently, after Jesus Returns. 

                                                                  

 

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, luigi said:

Daniel 8:13-14 are  not the first verses by which I connect other verses telling me these are events occur during the end times. I have stated this in the OP and several other posts here. The ram with two horns (Dan 8:3-4), and the he goat with the notable horn between his eyes (Dan 8:5), are according to Gabriel the kingdoms of Media, Persia, and Greecia during these end times.

Thanks for your thoughts! Yes, I agree the second and the third kingdoms are the Medes-Persians and Greece, respectivley. And if you do not mind, I would like to mention the goat that represents Alexander of Greece is shown to have a "large horn" as opposed to a "notable horn."  This is important to understand because in Chapter 8, God uses two very specific qualitiers or identifiers to ensure we focus on His prophecies and not steer away by attributing the specific actors He is speaking about in these prophecies. The 4 generals are not referred to as "horns" even though some translationns use that English word. They are 4 notable or conspicuous ones and never a horn. 

And at this time in the chapter, I do not see anything that speaks specifically about the "end times." I would ask you to consider that verses 1-8 speak to the 4 kingdom period from Babylon to the coming of the little horn in the 4th kingdom of Rome in verse 14. 

Verse 9 - prophecies the coming of the little horn (papacy),

Verse 10 - prophecies that he will grow up to the host of heaven and cast some of the host and the stars to the ground. This refers to when he will come to reign over the 4th beast kingdom (after pagan Rome is destroyed - 7:11), and will be replaced by papal Rome.

Verse 11 - prophecies he will even claim divinity and claim to be God on earth (he would even exalt himself as high as the Prince of the host (Jesus). And it was this Jesus who, because of His sacrifice on the cross would take away (do away with) the need for any further animal  sacrifices, and He would FULFILL and DO AWAY with the need for the Temple, the Sanctuary, the first 4 feast days. They were are established in Leviticus as a type and shadow of His coming and fulfillment.

Verse 12 - Because of transgression (Jews rejecting their own Messiah), the little horn would grow in power and might and he will amass a great army (of followers). This little horn would also (metaphorically) oppose the "daily sacrifices." Meaning, they would come to declare that the "sacrifice" of Jesus on the Cross was not enough to gain salvation. They would declare that salvation must come through their church and the sacraments and many other demands MUST be kept for salvation. It would be the cross plus works through their church. And of course, all of this has been true for some 1500 years and they casted God's Word and His Testimony to the ground. They have indeed re-written the script - including His 10 commandments.
 

Verse 13 - This is a very important verse in Chapter 8. We have Gabriel asking God when will these things be? He is asking Jesus 4 things: the first two speak specifically to the cross - the sacrifices and the transgression that will be taken away and the timing of the Jews rejection of their Messiah. The second two speak specifically to the time after the cross when the Sanctuary and the Host (Jesus) will be trampled on. These two apply to the time when the little horn will think himself to be god on earth and will corrupt and trample His church (for the next 1500 years).

Verse 14 - This is one of the most misunderstood verses in all the Bible. Rather than answer Gabriel's 4 part question directly, He turns to Daniel and tells him that the Sanctuary will be cleansed in 2300 evenings and mornings. This was not one of the 4 questions posed by Gabriel. But it would be Jesus Himself who would tell this prophecy directly to Daniel - who would have no idea what it means! This is a messianic prophecy where Jesus is telling Daniel the Sanctuary (heavenly) will be cleansed by Him (Jesus) in 2300 days. It does not apply to the "physical" elements that have been restored - the Temple, the Sanctuary, the walls and streets, etc. Everyone one of them would be entirely "FULFILLED" by the cross. Their God given mission on earth was completed. They would never again house the Presence of God within them... they are no longer necessary and have become "common" physical structures that have no holy purpose ever again. Their coming destruction in 70 AD is no different than the "doing away" with the "daily sacrificie," the first 4 feast days, the High Priest, etc. 

So, if one accepts this is indeed the correct interpretations within these few verses, then the 2300 days prophecy must be also found to occur with Jesus and the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. And it does! So, if you would like to calculate it, it is there in front of you. 

2 hours ago, luigi said:

As for the events in Daniel 2 and 7 that confirm Daniel is speaking about the end times; in Daniel 2, we see that after the kingdoms of this world come to a close, the Lord then commences to reign (Daniel 2:44). While some say the Lord is reigning now, others like myself believe this world to be Satan's currently, and Lord currently to be sitting at the Lord Almighty's right hand until He makes this current world the Lords footstool.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Please consider an alternative interpretation and let me know y0ur thoughts on the above, and I will focus on 2:44 since this is the verse you have quoted:

In Chapter 2, God reveals the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that HE WILL DECIDE THAT COMES OUT OF THE SEA OR THE EARTH AND ARE TO BE INCLUDED WITHIN HIS PLAN OF SALVATION / RESTORATION. He only wants us to focus our attention to these 4 - He will ensure He places all of His prophecies WITHIN these 4 and only 4 kingdoms AS HIS PEOPLE TRAVEL THROUGH THESE 4 AND ONLY 4 KINGDOMS. 

In Chapter 2, God will give us the "Dream Sequence." This is found in verses 27 to 35 only. This is the "big picture" of what will take place. It covers from the time of Babylon to the end of time. Please notice He gives us the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come out of the sea or the earth (meaning this is what He brings out), and there are ONLY two ACTIONS that will take place within this "big picture" which covers over 2700 years. And this is how God is presenting His plan of salvation and restoration - both for His people and His city in the "end times" (and the first time this phrase will be used is to refer to the "end times of the 70 weeks of years prophecy when the Messiah is crucified," to the "true end times." 

Thus, verse 2:34, despite EVERYONE'S CLAIM, does not represent the "true end times" action but His first coming. Jesus did not come to destroy but to divide. And that is exactly what He did. The Stone (Messiah) struck the FEET ONLY of the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome for the purpose of breaking apart and separating His people (Jews - clay) from their bondage and control within the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome. Symbolically, He broke into pieces those found within the iron kingdom those pieces of clay that would accept Him as their Messiah and go out into the world to preach the Good News. These are referred to in verses 2:41-43 as "pottery clay," because they would be molded by the Messiah to do His Good Work after the cross. Those of His people that would continue to reject Him as their Messiah would be referred to as "ceramic clay," because their hearts were hardened and would refuse to believe Him. They would continue onto this today to reject Jesus. This is what is all found in verses 2:41-44. These are the "interpretation sequence" verses which provide the "details" of the events and actors that are to be placed WITHIN THE APPROPRIATE DREAM SEQUENCE VERSES ABOVE. In Chapter 2, these verses are to be placed BETWEEN VERSES 2:34 AND 2:35.There is a 2000 year difference between these two verses. Verse 2:35 and 2:45 are both true end time verses, but notice that God  is purposefully concentrating on the events that will occur up to His first coming. And this will continue in the same fashion THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE HEBREW CHAPTERS. It is all about HIM.

Specfically, 2:44 tells us that God will indeed "set up" His earthly kingdom during the times of these kings (within the time of these 4 kingdoms in Daniel). He will not leave them to another people. This also confirms these verses are all about His first coming - The Jews were chosen by God to learn, obey and teach the One true God to the world - to the pagans and the Gentiles of the world. Instead, they kept Him to themselves and failed in their God given mission. So, God's plan would include His sacrifice on the cross and whoever believed He was the Messiah would be saved. Now, God would take those "pottery clay" Jews that accepted Him and He would send them out into the world preaching the Good News. But the most important thing would be that He would now ONLY entrust His teachings, ability to His Holy Spirit. The Jews failed in their mission but His Holy Spirit would never disobey God. He would succeed in His mission where the Jews failed. Meaning, that God would never again entrust this mission to any other peoples, nations or groups to teach the world of the One true God. And this unfortunately, is exactly what the little horn would do! He would appropriate God's church and declare salvation comes only through his church and they are the "replacement" church from the Jews failure.
 

Well, I think that might enough for now. I will respond to your comments later on this evening. Hope you do not mind reading on of the above and give it some of your consideration. 

 

2 hours ago, luigi said:

As for Daniel 7 confirming Daniel is speaking about the end times; here we see the kingdoms of the world, currently under Satan's rule, cast down by the Almighty, with the Lord then commencing to rule (Daniel 7:9). Additionally, in Dan 7 we see the little horn, who also appears in Dan 8.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

As for your claim that God does not go into details in Daniel 12; the data spoken of in Daniel 12, primarily consists of the visions shown Daniel in chapter 11, which goes into much detail, albeit vague.