WHAT YEARS CAN THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE HAPPEN

[JoeCanada]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

Let me fix this. Matthew 13:39 states that "A" harvest is at the end of the age, and the harvesters are the angels.

In other words, the Lord himself does not come at the end of the age. The Lord Himself comes for His Church at the first harvest.  You are talking about the second harvest.

Perhaps your bible says "A" harvest. The most commonly used bibles, 17 of them,  all say "and the harvest is the end of the age"

And yes, the harvesters are the angels. According to Jesus' own words ... "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory ... And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect..." Matt 24:31

Jesus has descended and He is overseeing the gathering of His children by the angels ... myriads and myriads of angels ... going forth all over the world and gathering.

Did you think that Jesus Himself does the gathering?

11 hours ago, The Light said:

There is no wheat harvest in Rev 14. Revelation 14 is the second harvest, the fruit harvest, hence grapes.

"Put in your sickle and reap ... for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe"

Again, Matt 13:39 states that the "harvest is the end of the age" .... hence .... "the harvest of the earth is ripe"

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Revelation 14 is the second harvest

Correct. The first harvest was the resurrection of Jesus and company, the "first fruits harvest"

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

There is no wheat harvest in Rev 14. Revelation 14 is the second harvest, the fruit harvest, hence grapes.

God uses "grapes" as an analogy. Grapes represent the "tares". The tares are gathered to be burned, thrown into the winepress of the wrath of God.

There is no grape harvest.

Ancient Israel had many harvests. There is wheat, barley, grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives and honey ... just to name a few.

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Which is the fruit harvest. The grain harvest, 1 Thessalonians 4, when the Lord Himself comes will occur before the fruit harvest.

There is the "first fruits" harvest.... that was Jesus et al

Then there is the main harvest at the end of the age.

Then there is the "gleanings" harvest .... and that's all. 

[JoeCanada]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

Let me fix this. Matthew 13:39 states that "A" harvest is at the end of the age, and the harvesters are the angels.

In other words, the Lord himself does not come at the end of the age. The Lord Himself comes for His Church at the first harvest.  You are talking about the second harvest.

Perhaps your bible says "A" harvest. The most commonly used bibles, 17 of them,  all say "and the harvest is the end of the age"

And yes, the harvesters are the angels. According to Jesus' own words ... "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory ... And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect..." Matt 24:31

Jesus has descended and He is overseeing the gathering of His children by the angels ... myriads and myriads of angels ... going forth all over the world and gathering.

Did you think that Jesus Himself does the gathering?

11 hours ago, The Light said:

There is no wheat harvest in Rev 14. Revelation 14 is the second harvest, the fruit harvest, hence grapes.

"Put in your sickle and reap ... for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe"

Again, Matt 13:39 states that the "harvest is the end of the age" .... hence .... "the harvest of the earth is ripe"

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Revelation 14 is the second harvest

Correct. The first harvest was the resurrection of Jesus and company, the "first fruits harvest"

 

11 hours ago, The Light said:

And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

There is no wheat harvest in Rev 14. Revelation 14 is the second harvest, the fruit harvest, hence grapes.

God uses "grapes" as an analogy. Grapes represent the "tares". The tares are gathered to be burned, thrown into the winepress of the wrath of God.

There is no grape harvest.

Ancient Israel had many harvests. There is wheat, barley, grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives and honey ... just to name a few.

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Which is the fruit harvest. The grain harvest, 1 Thessalonians 4, when the Lord Himself comes will occur before the fruit harvest.

There is the "first fruits" harvest.... that was Jesus et al

Then there is the main harvest at the end of the age.

Then there is the "gleanings" harvest .... and that's all. 

[tim_from_pa]

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

                                                         WHAT YEARS CAN THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE HAPPEN

 

According to the Torah, the resurrection/rapture (R/R) can only happen in select years. In other years, it can’t happen. In certain years, the resurrection of the righteous dead is prohibited by law, the very law God gave to Moses … and God will not break His own laws.

We are talking about the law(s) of the harvests.

Revelation 3:3 says “if we don’t wake up and repent He will come like a thief”. It’s conditional, meaning if we do wake up and repent, He won’t come like a thief.

The Day of Yom Teru’ah or the Day of (remembering) the Trumpets is the day or hour that no man knows and it is integral to the harvest cycle. The R/R is a harvest. Matt 13:39 states that the harvest is the end of the age and the harvesters are the angels.

God runs everything according to His clock which is the harvest cycle. Every year has its sowing and reaping period. Sowing begins in the fall and crops come to maturity in the spring. This reaping season officially begins at First Fruits following Passover and lasts through the fall … and this continues yearly.

Gods appointed times … Mo'ed, are set by the harvest guide.

There is a time when reaping is allowed and when it is not. One harvest has already occurred, which was Yeshua, as a first fruits. The next is the main harvest when Yeshua returns for His own. This harvest is referred to in Rev 14:14-16 in which the wheat is gathered and put into the barn and the tares are thrown into the winepress of the Wrath of God. Then … the final gleanings harvest that follows the Millennium Kingdom. This concludes the harvests that Paul describes in 1 Cor 15.

John the Baptist spoke of Jesus when He comes back as having a winnowing fork in His hands. A winnowing fork is a harvesting tool that is used to separate the wheat from the tares.

The R/R in multiple places throughout Scripture is related to God’s harvest laws, the Hebraic Harvest. The harvest cycle is made up of “shabua” or weeks of years. This is a grouping of 7 years that ends with a Sabbatical year or a Shemitah year.

Each year, the harvest cycle begins on the 1^st day of the 7^th month, or Yom Teru’ah … and ends on the last day of the 6^th month the following year. Six years you may sow your fields and six years you may prune your vineyard and gather its produce. So for these 6 years, beginning on Yom Teru’ah, sewing and reaping are permitted. The 7^th year is a Sabbatical year in which the land is to rest … sowing and reaping are not permitted.

Then every 49 years there is a Jubilee Year. In Lev 25:8-11 it says … “You shall count off 7 Sabbaths of years, 7 Sabbaths of years amount to 49 years. Then you are to sound the horn far and wide. On the 10^th day of the 7^th month the day of Atonement, you shall sound it throughout your land. You are to consecrate the 50^th year and proclaim liberty in the land for all its inhabitants … it shall be your Jubilee when each of you is to return to his property and to his clan. The 50^th will be a Jubilee for you and you are not to seed the field or reap its after growth or harvest its untended vines … for it is a Jubilee. It shall be holy to you.

Every 49 years there are 2 years in a row where sowing and reaping are not permitted. God equates the gathering of His own to a harvest. Matt 13:39 … “the harvest is the end of the age and the angels are the reapers” … God will not break His established laws.

So we can rule out the Sabbatical year and the Jubilee year as the time to harvest the earth.

If our “gathering to the Lord” is a harvest, which Jesus says it is, then the timing needs to follow the harvest laws established by God.

The 70 weeks of Daniel is a specific grouping of 7 years in Gods harvest cycle. The final week of years is preceded by a Sabbatical year (the end of the 69^th week) and ends with a Sabbatical year followed by a Jubilee year. No sowing or reaping can occur in these years. The gathering of the harvest can only occur during non-Sabbatical or Jubilee years.

Do you see the implications of this?

This completely eliminates the post tribulation rapture because somewhere in those last 2 years is where a post-trib rapture would have to take place.

It also eliminates the year before the beginning of the 70^th week for a pre-trib rapture (because it’s a Sabbatical year of the 69^th week) Now, a pre-trib rapture could theoretically still happen before the 70^th week, but it would have to happen a full year before the start of the 70^th week.

This radically changes our theories of the resurrection and rapture.

If we follow Gods laws for the harvest cycle, we are left with a final 6 month window that the harvest at the end of the age can occur. We’re gathered at the Trumpet blast on Yom Teru’ah, closing the harvest window … and beginning Gods wrath in the Sabbatical year.

This would leave a biblical one year and 10 day period to the beginning of the Messianic Kingdom in the following year of Jubilee on Yom Kippur. This is the same time frame that Noah and his family were protected from the totality of Gods wrath from the flood, in the ark. This one year and ten days is the time that God deals with the wicked and unrepentant.

This would place our gathering just prior to Gods wrath at the end of the 6^th year of the 70^th week.

To say otherwise is saying that God won’t honor the Harvest laws that He put in place.

I hear you and been saying this for years.  The Lord does not do anything randomly, but as the apostle Paul stated in certain "times and seasons".  But therein lies my problem.  In fact, most of the problems.  We do not know when the Jubilee years occurred, and for that matter there are different opinions on Sabbatical years.  Fortunately, the yearly Sabbaths and feasts are set by simply watching the lunar motion (but even then we have those who believe in different starts of the month e.g. lunar Sabbaths and Full moon starts (I believe in the traditional New moon).  One would think with something so precise as timing that there would not be much room for disagreement except perhaps a counting disagreement I.e. Jubilees and years. That all said, if you have any good sources of when the Jubilee years occurred, I'm all ears.  And I tend to disregard happenstance except it's backed up by scripture.  For example, Jonathan Cahn notices 50 -year cycles with Israel so that's a Jubilee to him.  But there is only limited scripture to support that and it seems that there's a confirmation bias that one looks for incidents to support that theory instead.  Besides, based on Daniel 9, a Jubilee mimics the counting of the Homer which is 49 days later than Firstfruits during the week of Passover. The 50th day to Pentecost is a "day to a year" principle - the 50th is also the 1st of the next Sabbatical cycle.  The closest biblical hints I found were the days of King Hezekiah circa 700BC) where there was a tandem Sabbatical year and Jubilee the next year.  Using astronomy, I calculated a supposed date Jesus was crucified and that year was was is now considered a Sabbatical year, and the next was a Jubilee, making sense that the 490 weeks of Daniel (10 Jubilees) would be completed as prophecied. 1995 was such a year, so the next Jubilee will be in the 2040's by this analysis.  The reason I say 2040's is because I am not adamant on the 1995 date, either.  But it's around that time apparently give or take a few short years.

[BornAgain490]

19 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

                                                         WHAT YEARS CAN THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE HAPPEN

 

According to the Torah, the resurrection/rapture (R/R) can only happen in select years. In other years, it can’t happen. In certain years, the resurrection of the righteous dead is prohibited by law, the very law God gave to Moses … and God will not break His own laws.

We are talking about the law(s) of the harvests.

Revelation 3:3 says “if we don’t wake up and repent He will come like a thief”. It’s conditional, meaning if we do wake up and repent, He won’t come like a thief.

The Day of Yom Teru’ah or the Day of (remembering) the Trumpets is the day or hour that no man knows and it is integral to the harvest cycle. The R/R is a harvest. Matt 13:39 states that the harvest is the end of the age and the harvesters are the angels.

God runs everything according to His clock which is the harvest cycle. Every year has its sowing and reaping period. Sowing begins in the fall and crops come to maturity in the spring. This reaping season officially begins at First Fruits following Passover and lasts through the fall … and this continues yearly.

Gods appointed times … Mo'ed, are set by the harvest guide.

There is a time when reaping is allowed and when it is not. One harvest has already occurred, which was Yeshua, as a first fruits. The next is the main harvest when Yeshua returns for His own. This harvest is referred to in Rev 14:14-16 in which the wheat is gathered and put into the barn and the tares are thrown into the winepress of the Wrath of God. Then … the final gleanings harvest that follows the Millennium Kingdom. This concludes the harvests that Paul describes in 1 Cor 15.

John the Baptist spoke of Jesus when He comes back as having a winnowing fork in His hands. A winnowing fork is a harvesting tool that is used to separate the wheat from the tares.

The R/R in multiple places throughout Scripture is related to God’s harvest laws, the Hebraic Harvest. The harvest cycle is made up of “shabua” or weeks of years. This is a grouping of 7 years that ends with a Sabbatical year or a Shemitah year.

Each year, the harvest cycle begins on the 1^st day of the 7^th month, or Yom Teru’ah … and ends on the last day of the 6^th month the following year. Six years you may sow your fields and six years you may prune your vineyard and gather its produce. So for these 6 years, beginning on Yom Teru’ah, sewing and reaping are permitted. The 7^th year is a Sabbatical year in which the land is to rest … sowing and reaping are not permitted.

Then every 49 years there is a Jubilee Year. In Lev 25:8-11 it says … “You shall count off 7 Sabbaths of years, 7 Sabbaths of years amount to 49 years. Then you are to sound the horn far and wide. On the 10^th day of the 7^th month the day of Atonement, you shall sound it throughout your land. You are to consecrate the 50^th year and proclaim liberty in the land for all its inhabitants … it shall be your Jubilee when each of you is to return to his property and to his clan. The 50^th will be a Jubilee for you and you are not to seed the field or reap its after growth or harvest its untended vines … for it is a Jubilee. It shall be holy to you.

Every 49 years there are 2 years in a row where sowing and reaping are not permitted. God equates the gathering of His own to a harvest. Matt 13:39 … “the harvest is the end of the age and the angels are the reapers” … God will not break His established laws.

So we can rule out the Sabbatical year and the Jubilee year as the time to harvest the earth.

If our “gathering to the Lord” is a harvest, which Jesus says it is, then the timing needs to follow the harvest laws established by God.

The 70 weeks of Daniel is a specific grouping of 7 years in Gods harvest cycle. The final week of years is preceded by a Sabbatical year (the end of the 69^th week) and ends with a Sabbatical year followed by a Jubilee year. No sowing or reaping can occur in these years. The gathering of the harvest can only occur during non-Sabbatical or Jubilee years.

Do you see the implications of this?

This completely eliminates the post tribulation rapture because somewhere in those last 2 years is where a post-trib rapture would have to take place.

It also eliminates the year before the beginning of the 70^th week for a pre-trib rapture (because it’s a Sabbatical year of the 69^th week) Now, a pre-trib rapture could theoretically still happen before the 70^th week, but it would have to happen a full year before the start of the 70^th week.

This radically changes our theories of the resurrection and rapture.

If we follow Gods laws for the harvest cycle, we are left with a final 6 month window that the harvest at the end of the age can occur. We’re gathered at the Trumpet blast on Yom Teru’ah, closing the harvest window … and beginning Gods wrath in the Sabbatical year.

This would leave a biblical one year and 10 day period to the beginning of the Messianic Kingdom in the following year of Jubilee on Yom Kippur. This is the same time frame that Noah and his family were protected from the totality of Gods wrath from the flood, in the ark. This one year and ten days is the time that God deals with the wicked and unrepentant.

This would place our gathering just prior to Gods wrath at the end of the 6^th year of the 70^th week.

To say otherwise is saying that God won’t honor the Harvest laws that He put in place.

Your argument does destroy the pretrib argument of imminence of a secret pretrib rapture. 

[The Light]

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Perhaps your bible says "A" harvest. The most commonly used bibles, 17 of them,  all say "and the harvest is the end of the age"

And yes, the harvesters are the angels. According to Jesus' own words ... "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory ... And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect..." Matt 24:31

Jesus has descended and He is overseeing the gathering of His children by the angels ... myriads and myriads of angels ... going forth all over the world and gathering.

Correct. The harvest at the end of the age is the gathering from heaven and earth. Jesus sends His angels and the gathering is before the wrath of God.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 

The Church is gathered from heaven and those believers of the 12 tribes are gathered from earth.

The Lord Himself comes for the Church before the great tribulation. 

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Did you think that Jesus Himself does the gathering?

No. At the gathering from heaven and earth the Lord sends His angles. When He comes for the Church, the first bride, the Lord Himself will come.

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 

God uses "grapes" as an analogy. Grapes represent the "tares". The tares are gathered to be burned, thrown into the winepress of the wrath of God.

There is no grape harvest.

There is a fruit harvest. It occurs in the fall. Wheat is not harvested in the fall.

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Ancient Israel had many harvests. There is wheat, barley, grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives and honey ... just to name a few.

There is the "first fruits" harvest.... that was Jesus et al

Then there is the main harvest at the end of the age.

Then there is the "gleanings" harvest .... and that's all. 

There is a dead in Christ rise first barley harvest.

There is an alive that remain wheat harvest.

After there are 144,000 first fruits for the fruit harvest, seen here.

Revelation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Then there is a fall fruit harvest seen here.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

[DeighAnn]

17 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

I believe that in Rev 6:9 they are speaking about the martyred "souls" under the altar. They are given white robes. But they aren't wearing them yet because they don't have bodies. They get bodies when Jesus brings them with Him at the resurrection/rapture at the 6th seal. 1 Thes 4:14 ... God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

Those in spiritual bodies when Christ returns? ..... They are those above who God brings with Jesus, then they are given resurrection bodies... 1 Cor 15:50

Then how are they speaking?  Why give a robe to someone without a body?  Is God trying to confuse us here by giving us examples of things we know and relate to only to have them have no meaning at all?  

Where do these 'resurrection' bodies come from?  They CANT come from the earth, CANT come from their old flesh and blood bodies since we are told

corruption, destruction, rottenness, decomposition, perishableness

 

1 Corinth 15:42  

So also the resurrection of the dead.  It is sown in decay, it is raised in immortality


QUESTION

HOW do the 'souls' under the altar in heaven GET to be IN HEAVEN if they ARE NOT raised up in immortality?  

And, if you DO AGREE they are RAISED UP at the common death in immortality, 



It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory.  It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power

It is sown a body natural, it is raised a body spiritual.  If there is a body natural, there is also spiritual


QUESTION CONTINUED

and it is written IT IS RAISED A BODY SPIRITUAL, 


How do you go FROM being raised up a body spiritual TO raised up a 'bodyless spirit' and will be returning for a BODY from the DECAY?   And when does it become OK with GOD for the 'decay' to be raised up in immortality?  

 

So also it has been written Became the first man Adam into a soul living, the last Adam into a spirit life-giving


Do you BELIEVE that Jesus was born and lived in a flesh and blood body?  Do you believe HE was able to "make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken" while HE walked the earth or only after HE was raised up?   


 

This now I say brothers, that flesh and blood [the] kingdom of God to inherit not is able, nor the DECAY the immortality does inherit




LAST question

quote ' then they are given resurrection bodies... 1 Cor 15:50' 
 
WHERE is their SPIRITUAL BODY the whole time their 'bodyless spirit' is up in heaven (where they are found to be walking and praying and escorting and explaining and receiving robes...hopefully you can see why I personally believe they are raised up in their spiritual 'bodies' and don't 'return' for one)

and WHERE does their 'spiritual body' come from once they return?  We read in the verse ABOVE he reason it can't be from the 'dead, decaying or decomposing' body, they used to dwell in since it was buried in the grave and is decomposing

[JoeCanada]

On 11/23/2024 at 3:03 PM, DeighAnn said:

On 11/22/2024 at 8:31 PM, JoeCanada said:

I believe that in Rev 6:9 they are speaking about the martyred "souls" under the altar. They are given white robes. But they aren't wearing them yet because they don't have bodies. They get bodies when Jesus brings them with Him at the resurrection/rapture at the 6th seal. 1 Thes 4:14 ... God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

Those in spiritual bodies when Christ returns? ..... They are those above who God brings with Jesus, then they are given resurrection bodies... 1 Cor 15:50

Then how are they speaking?  Why give a robe to someone without a body?  Is God trying to confuse us here by giving us examples of things we know and relate to only to have them have no meaning at all?  

They are not dead spirits. They are alive. God, after all, is Spirit.... and God speaks, not just thru His Son, but Himself. When Jesus was baptized, it was God the Father, who is Spirit, that said "this is My beloved Son"

They were given robes and told to wait. Why were they told to wait? ... Because the resurrection hadn't happened yet, where they would receive bodies. 

On 11/23/2024 at 3:03 PM, DeighAnn said:

HOW do the 'souls' under the altar in heaven GET to be IN HEAVEN if they ARE NOT raised up in immortality?  

Like the apostle Paul tells us ... "I prefer rather to be absent from the body and and be at home with the Lord"

When a Christian dies, the angels carry his soul home, to be with the Lord ... until the resurrection, when he will be given a spiritual body.

On 11/23/2024 at 3:03 PM, DeighAnn said:

QUESTION CONTINUED

and it is written IT IS RAISED A BODY SPIRITUAL, 


How do you go FROM being raised up a body spiritual TO raised up a 'bodyless spirit' and will be returning for a BODY from the DECAY?   And when does it become OK with GOD for the 'decay' to be raised up in immortality?  

Paul tell us in 1 Cor 15 that we will be changed at the resurrection/rapture. Exactly what kind of body we will have, I don't know. But when Jesus was resurrected, He had a body that was recognizable by His disciples, yet His body could do incredible things, like appear and disappear, walk thru walls ... and yet, eat food. 

God will surprise us all. What a glorious God we serve, and what a glorious future is in store for us. 

Amen ... come Lord Jesus.

[Retrobyter]

On 11/23/2024 at 5:17 PM, The Light said:

Correct. The harvest at the end of the age is the gathering from heaven and earth. Jesus sends His angels and the gathering is before the wrath of God.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. 

The Church is gathered from heaven and those believers of the 12 tribes are gathered from earth.

Shalom, @The Light.

One must remember what the words one is quoting MEAN! How they are defined! In Mark 13:27 (part of the Olivet Discourse as recorded by Yochanan Markos (John Mark), probably dictated by Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter), the Greek text is this:

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΡΚΟΝ 13:27 (Scrivener's TR)

27 καὶ τότε ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἐπισυνάξει τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων, ἀπ’ ἄκρου γῆς ἕως ἄκρου οὐρανοῦ.

This transliterates to ...

27 Kai tote apostelei tous aggelous autou, kai episunaxei tous eklektous autou ek toon tessaroon anemoon, ap' (apo) akrou gees heoos akrou ouranou.

This is translated into English word-for-word as ...

27 "And then He-shall-send the messengers of-Him, and He-shall-gather-together the elect/chosen-ones of-Him out of-the four winds, from [the]-extremity of-earth unto [the]-extremity of-sky."

It's important to understand that "ouranou," the genitive of "ouranos," means "of-[the]-SKY!" "Ouranos" simply means the "sky":

G3772 οὐρανός ouranós, oo-ran-os'; perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity):—air, heaven(-ly), sky. [emphasis mine]

This is borne out by the fact that Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") Himself was translated into Greek that way in Matthew 16:1-4:

Matthew 16:1-4 (KJV)

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = ek tou ouranou = "out of-the sky"). 2 He answered and said unto them,

"When it is evening, ye say, '[It will be] fair weather': for the sky (ὁ οὐρανός = ho ouranos) is red. 3 And in the morning, '[It will be] foul weather to day': for the sky (ὁ οὐρανός = ho ouranos) is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (τὸ μὲν πρόσωπον τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = to men prosoopon tou ouranou = "the indeed surface of-the sky"); but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."

And he left them, and departed.

In verse 1, the Pharisees and Sadducees may have been nebulous in their meaning, but Yeeshuwa` brought it back to the concrete meaning! "Red sky at night, a sailor's delight; red sky at morning, sailors take warning!"

What this tells us about Mark 13:27 is that Yeeshuwa`, who SPOKE the "Olivet Discourse," would have used the more literal, concrete meaning of the word here as well! He was not talking about the "extremity of God's abode"; He was talking about the "extremity of the SKY, particularly earth's ATMOSPHERE!" For those in the first century, they may have limited that to the "tops of the mountains," but now, we know that men DO now fly in helicopters and planes and space craft! They will gather ALL of His elect - His chosen-ones - even to the rarified air in what we now call "the vacuum of space!"

On 11/23/2024 at 5:17 PM, The Light said:

The Lord Himself comes for the Church before the great tribulation. 

No. At the gathering from heaven and earth the Lord sends His angels. When He comes for the Church, the first bride, the Lord Himself will come.

There is a fruit harvest. It occurs in the fall. Wheat is not harvested in the fall.

There is a dead in Christ rise first barley harvest.

There is an alive that remain wheat harvest.

After there are 144,000 first fruits for the fruit harvest, seen here.

Revelation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Then there is a fall fruit harvest seen here.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

One should keep what I said above in mind when one quotes these Scriptures, as well.

[DeighAnn]

23 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Paul tell us in 1 Cor 15 that we will be changed at the resurrection/rapture. Exactly what kind of body we will have, I don't know. But when Jesus was resurrected, He had a body that was recognizable by His disciples, yet His body could do incredible things, like appear and disappear, walk thru walls ... and yet, eat food. 

God will surprise us all. What a glorious God we serve, and what a glorious future is in store for us. 

Amen ... come Lord Jesus.

Don't ALL have recognizable bodies AFTER the death of the flesh and blood body?

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Please, tell me WHERE this 'spiritual body' you are speaking of comes from?  


HOW is it possible to be RAISED WITHOUT a body when it is written  44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


There are 2 bodies, a natural and spiritual.  the natural is sown, the spiritual as you put for isn't raised AT ALL until Christ returns.  IF that were TRUTH then the 'spiritual body' would have to be 'in the grave' going back to dust (decaying, decomposition) until that time BUT it is also written 

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.  Those WORDS make it IMPOSSIBLE for the 'spiritual body' to be LEFT here and raised up at a later date, doesn't it?  

I understand there is a 'doctrine/theory/tradition of man' the CLAIMS 'THE DEAD' being raised when Christ returns are SOMEHOW ACTUALLY THOSE who Jesus told us would 'NEVER DIE' (though no one can/will give a single detail as to how someone who NEVER DIES is LATER found to be amongst 'the dead' being raised up from the grave/hell...decay inheriting immortality) but that isn't what is written.  It is written that 'every knee shall bow' and that includes those who crucified the Lord Jesus Christ, THE DEAD who buried their dead, aren't THESE 'the dead' that rise when Christ returns, AND not the 'living' who never die and who followed Him and have been 'where He is' because they knew the way, the life, the resurrection, who also don't die because they are under the grace and blood of Christ as opposed to those who do because of their unforgiven sin?   

IF IT only takes 'a twinkling of an eye' to change from one body to the next...why the wait?  and HOW is it possible for John to be falling at the FEET of an ANGEL, if that 'brethren of the prophets' DOESN'T HAVE A BODY?   





 

[The Light]

On 11/25/2024 at 5:10 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @The Light.

One must remember what the words one is quoting MEAN!

It's important to understand that "ouranou," the genitive of "ouranos," means "of-[the]-SKY!" "Ouranos" simply means the "sky":

 

In verse 1, the Pharisees and Sadducees may have been nebulous in their meaning, but Yeeshuwa` brought it back to the concrete meaning! "Red sky at night, a sailor's delight; red sky at morning, sailors take warning!"

What this tells us about Mark 13:27 is that Yeeshuwa`, who SPOKE the "Olivet Discourse," would have used the more literal, concrete meaning of the word here as well! He was not talking about the "extremity of God's abode"; He was talking about the "extremity of the SKY, particularly earth's ATMOSPHERE!" For those in the first century, they may have limited that to the "tops of the mountains," but now, we know that men DO now fly in helicopters and planes and space craft! They will gather ALL of His elect - His chosen-ones - even to the rarified air in what we now call "the vacuum of space!"

One must understand there is a gathering from heaven and earth. The Church will be gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. There is not anyone in the sky to be gathered. 

On 11/25/2024 at 5:10 AM, Retrobyter said:

One should keep what I said above in mind when one quotes these Scriptures, as well.

One should understand 

John 14

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.