" Replacement Theology"

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

I'm sorry. When Jesus comes we, jew- gentile will be gathered together as one bride adorned for her husband. I don't see your point in trying to make two distinctions of people. 

Yeah, that's the problem isn't it. The Word CLEARLY says that He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. 

The Jews are currently blinded.

Romans 11

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

This blindness will not be removed until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the pretribulation rapture...........The first fold.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

After their blindness is removed, part of Israel will see the Jesus is the Messiah.

Then there will be 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel which means there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes of Israel..... The second fold.

Two folds happening at different time. The two folds will be one fold.......the Israel of God.

Two raptures, two harvests, two folds........the great multitude.

[Frits]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Both folds are Israel. But both folds do not hear His voice at the same time. 

Will all Gentiles ultimately be saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ? No.
Will all Jewish people ultimately be saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ? Also, no!
For (Rev.5:9) from 'every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation' on earth people will be saved. While others from the same kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation will be lost, because they remain unbelievers! The 'believing part' of people who love the Lord Jesus Christ and worship Him will be saved, the unbelievers will be lost! (Mar.16:16)

That was already the case when the Old Testament was still valid; the generation of those who seek Him and seek His face, that is Jacob! (Ps.24:6)
And only Jacob means Israel.
But the unbelieving Jews, the unwilling Jews, the godless Jews and the loveless Jews, they will never enter God's Kingdom!  Even though they be circumcised, and though they be Jews by nature, and though they dwell in the land of Israel, they shall perish, as their unbelieving fathers perished in the wilderness. 

1Co 10:5 KJV 
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 

But every man, of all kindreds, and tongues, of all peoples, and nations, that truly love the Lord Jesus Christ (Ps.2:12), that is truly Israel.

[Your closest friendnt]

@Anne2

Thank you for your positive participation in this thread. 

[The Light]

7 hours ago, Frits said:

Will all Gentiles ultimately be saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ? No.
Will all Jewish people ultimately be saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ? Also, no!
For (Rev.5:9) from 'every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation' on earth people will be saved. While others from the same kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation will be lost, because they remain unbelievers! The 'believing part' of people who love the Lord Jesus Christ and worship Him will be saved, the unbelievers will be lost! (Mar.16:16)

That was already the case when the Old Testament was still valid; the generation of those who seek Him and seek His face, that is Jacob! (Ps.24:6)
And only Jacob means Israel.
But the unbelieving Jews, the unwilling Jews, the godless Jews and the loveless Jews, they will never enter God's Kingdom!  Even though they be circumcised, and though they be Jews by nature, and though they dwell in the land of Israel, they shall perish, as their unbelieving fathers perished in the wilderness. 

1Co 10:5 KJV 
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 

But every man, of all kindreds, and tongues, of all peoples, and nations, that truly love the Lord Jesus Christ (Ps.2:12), that is truly Israel.

Do you think this statement changes anything? How does this disprove the FACT that there are two folds of sheep?

Only those that believe Jesus is the Messiah when the Lord comes will be in the first fold. They are those that He knows, and we know Him. There are other sheep not of this fold that He must also bring. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in blindness will be removed from part of Israel and they will see and accept that Jesus is the Messiah. He will come for them at the 6th seal, which is before the 7th seal wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

Your statement changes none of this.

[Anne2]

7 hours ago, Frits said:

But every man, of all kindreds, and tongues, of all peoples, and nations, that truly love the Lord Jesus Christ (Ps.2:12), that is truly Israel.

Historically it has been believed the Church existed in the old testament.  I find Israel's  blessing of the sons of Joseph of interest Concerning the name Israel...

Genesis 48:14  And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15  And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16  The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. {grow: Heb. as fishes do increase 

Seems the above that Israel is also Abraham and Isaac as well?

17  And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head. {displeased … : was evil in his eyes }
18  And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19  And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. {multitude: Heb. fulness }
20  And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

These two sons become two peoples, but Israels name, and the name of his fathers Abraham and Isaac was named upon both.

1Ch 5:1  Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
1Ch 5:2  For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph’s:)

 

 

[The Light]

3 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@Anne2

Thank you for your positive participation in this thread. 

It would be wise to be watching and ready as instructed as the time is very, very, very short.

[The Light]

2 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Historically it has been believed the Church existed in the old testament.  I find Israel's  blessing of the sons of Joseph of interest Concerning the name Israel...

Genesis 48:14  And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15  And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16  The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. {grow: Heb. as fishes do increase 

Seems the above that Israel is also Abraham and Isaac as well?

17  And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head. {displeased … : was evil in his eyes }
18  And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19  And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. {multitude: Heb. fulness }
20  And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

These two sons become two peoples, but Israels name, and the name of his fathers Abraham and Isaac was named upon both.

1Ch 5:1  Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
1Ch 5:2  For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph’s:)

 

 

Two raptures, two harvests, two folds into one-fold........Israel.........The great multitude.

[other one]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

It would be wise to be watching and ready as instructed as the time is very, very, very short.

Where is that big Hope emoji when you need it.  The end should come pretty quickly or there may be nothing left...    Hummm,  I read about that somewhere.

It is also wise to be watching, or that big ole cement truck might run you down. The only difference in that and rapture is some short lived pain.

[Frits]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in blindness will be removed from part of Israel and they will see and accept that Jesus is the Messiah. He will come for them

Can you please indicate which Bible verse you read that says that the blindness will be taken away? And where does it say that the Lord Jesus Christ will come especially for the Jews? And also where did you read that they will accept Him then?

[farouk]

10 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Historically it has been believed the Church existed in the old testament.  I find Israel's  blessing of the sons of Joseph of interest Concerning the name Israel...

Genesis 48:14  And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15  And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16  The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. {grow: Heb. as fishes do increase 

Seems the above that Israel is also Abraham and Isaac as well?

17  And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head. {displeased … : was evil in his eyes }
18  And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19  And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. {multitude: Heb. fulness }
20  And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

These two sons become two peoples, but Israels name, and the name of his fathers Abraham and Isaac was named upon both.

1Ch 5:1  Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
1Ch 5:2  For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph’s:)

 

 

Hi @Anne2 It depends on how ppl define church. Strictly speaking, the church began at Pentecost. 1 Cor. 10.32 bears out the existence of Jews, Gentiles and the church of God, as distinct entities.