Unravelling Revelation

[Deborah_]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

Which viewpoint do you stand by? Material restoration from your website or spiritual return?

There's no reason why there shouldn't be both a physical return (which has of course already happened) and a spiritual one. The physical return hasn't in fact put an end to 'the times of the Gentiles', because the Gospel is still being preached to them. But it can still be an essential step in the process of restoration, and a signal that the times of the Gentiles are nearing their end. 

There may be a parallel here with the return of the exiles from Babylon in the 6th century BC. There were many prophecies linking this return with an outpouring of God's blessing - but it never happened at the time, and there was 500 years of waiting before Jesus' birth. Prophecy seems to be flexible in its fulfilment (see Jeremiah 18:1-10).

[Keras]

2 hours ago, Deborah_ said:

Prophecy seems to be flexible in its fulfilment

The flexibility is in your interpretations. 

The Prophetic Word is clear and coherent. What can happen; WILL happen. 

[Deborah_]

12 hours ago, Keras said:

The flexibility is in your interpretations. 

The Prophetic Word is clear and coherent. What can happen; WILL happen. 

Even though God tells Jeremiah that in certain circumstances it may not in fact happen after all?

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"to execute upon (the wicked) the judgement written
this honor have all His saints"
Psalm 149:9

When does that come to pass?              [ Revelation 19:14- 21 ]

"To you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise...
and you shall trample down the wicked
they shall be ashes under your feet in the day that I do this says the Lord."
Malachi 4:3-4

What day is that?           [ Revelation 19:14- 21 ]

"The righteous shall rejoice when they see the vengeance,
they shall wash their feet in the blood of the wicked"
Psalm 58:10

When does that come to pass?              [ Revelation 19:14-21 ]

 

"And to you who are troubled, rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from the sky
with His holy angels, in flaming fire, taking vengeance
on them that know not God and that obey not the good
news [Matthew 7:12-28, 2 John 1:9-11] of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

Paul is referring to all the above passages.
 

Revelation 19 is a description of that day happening.

"The armies in the sky followed Him on white horses..."
Revelation 19:14 without added in words and ideas.

We being on horses with Him in the sky happens in the twinkling of an eye,
just as Paul wrote about, the only thing he did not mention is the horses,
but he specifically said we would meet the Lord in the air, in the clouds.
1 Thessalonaisn 4:16-17

All of the above passages are fulfilled together during that moment.
Any correct view of prophecy must account for all such passages.
The scripture collectively interprets itself.

 

 

[abcdef]

On 3/9/2025 at 2:09 PM, Deborah_ said:

There's no reason why there shouldn't be both a physical return (which has of course already happened)

The times of the gentiles is directly related to the material city, Lk 21:20-24, 24. The prophecy is understood to show that the children of Israel restore control over Jerusalem at some point in time.

It means that the times of the gentiles that Jesus spoke about was from 70 AD until it ended in 1967.

Another example of the times of the gentiles is the statue of Dan 2. The head of gold begins when Jerusalem falls to Babylon. That is the beginning of the gentile trampling of Jerusalem in the statue.

The statue is continual until the toes end. The toes end when Jerusalem is restored to the control of the children of Israel (1967).

That is the end of the times of the gentiles that Jesus spoke about.

The important thing to see is that the times of the gentiles did not begin in 70 AD, they actually began with Babylon.

If Jerusalem is restored and the statue toes have ended, It means that the stone is about to strike, which is the coming of Jesus for the kingdom at the last (2nd) resurrection and the eternal judgment follows.

We are in the time between when the statue ends and the stone strikes, 56 years after the statue has ended.

 

On 3/9/2025 at 2:09 PM, Deborah_ said:

and a spiritual one.

What do you expect to see when Israel has it's spiritual revival? 

Do  you expect that every person in Israel becomes a Christian? Half of the people? A quarter of the nation? What percentage of the people would need to become Christians to fulfill the prophecy?

How many people in Israel are Christians right now? Is it enough to fulfill the prophecy?

 

On 3/9/2025 at 2:09 PM, Deborah_ said:

The physical return hasn't in fact put an end to the times of the Gentiles', because the Gospel is still being preached to them.

Rom 11:25, The fulness of the gentiles is not the same as the times of the gentiles.

It could be understood that the restoration of Jerusalem would happen in a time when the harvest of souls is at it's ending phase.

That is, there won't be much time left until the number of souls to be saved is at it's last number, when Jerusalem is restored.

The 2 are related, but the number for the fulness of the gentiles is past now, since Jerusalem is restored.

The next  numbers will fill the numbers of gentiles, then Jesus will come for the gospel kingdom.

The harvest of souls will end.

 

On 3/9/2025 at 2:09 PM, Deborah_ said:

But it can still be an essential step in the process of restoration, and a signal that the times of the Gentiles are nearing their end. 

The thought would be that as the gentile number of souls harvest nears it's end, that God would return His blessings to Israel and Jerusalem would be restored. That happened 57 years ago.

Rev 12, The faithful woman returned from the wilderness 57 years ago.

Rev 12, is completely fulfilled.

 

On 3/9/2025 at 2:09 PM, Deborah_ said:

There may be a parallel here with the return of the exiles from Babylon in the 6th century BC. There were many prophecies linking this return with an outpouring of God's blessing - but it never happened at the time, and there was 500 years of waiting before Jesus' birth. Prophecy seems to be flexible in its fulfilment (see Jeremiah 18:1-10).

 

[Keras]

18 hours ago, Deborah_ said:

Even though God tells Jeremiah that in certain circumstances it may not in fact happen after all?

Verse please.

Ezekiel 33:33 When it comes, as come it will, then people will know there has been a Prophet in their midst.     'It', being all the unfulfilled Prophesies. 

[Deborah_]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

Verse please

The passage in Jeremiah that I quoted (Jeremiah 18:1-10)

Edited March 11 by Deborah_

[Keras]

11 hours ago, Deborah_ said:

The passage in Jeremiah that I quoted (Jeremiah 18:1-10)

So, have you seen any sign of Israel repenting of their apostasy and accepting Messiah Jesus?  

No; and Jeremiah 12:14 will soon take place. 

[Deborah_]

On 3/11/2025 at 8:08 PM, Keras said:

So, have you seen any sign of Israel repenting of their apostasy and accepting Messiah Jesus?  

No, and it may be that because Israel has returned without repenting, the times of thee Gentiles are being extended.

God is very patient...

[Marilyn C]

God have an appointed time for every nation. 

`And He (God) has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on the face of the earth, and has determined their appointed times and the boundary of their habitation.` (Acts 17: 26)

And Israel will only repent when the Spirit of God moves upon them.

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look upon mw whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 10)

`The Zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.` (isa. 9: 7)