Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[AdHoc]

30 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

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Unprintable ... was it?

Good evening esteemed sister. It 12:30 a.m. here, so I'm about to run into my room and sail between the sheets. Have a great evening and read my posting slowly. Check my statements carefully against scripture.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Unprintable ... was it?

Good evening esteemed sister. It 12:30 a.m. here, so I'm about to run into my room and sail between the sheets. Have a great evening and read my posting slowly. Check my statements carefully against scripture.

Ha, ha.

It was taking it off topic. See you later. Sleep well.

[kwikphilly]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You're always so courteous. Thanks for your answer.

My first answer is to ask you to read each point slowly again and then point out where I missed to the point. If each statement can be backed by scripture. If they are all correct, then I have a good argument. What often happens is that when one hears something for the first time and it is in conflict with what you have held for decades, you tend to fit it against what you believe and nt wat the scripture says.

But let me ask you three questons which you don't have to answer to me, but which will give you something to think about.
1. In your knowledge of grammar, is the Lord Jesus the subject or the Spirit that raised Him? Here it is in context;

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which (SPIRIT) also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1st Pet.3:18–20). ...

... 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to TARTAROO, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2nd Pet.2:4–5)

Does not the grammar of the end of verse 18 and the beginning of 19 make the Holy Spirit the subject and only explain that it is the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead (Rom.8)? Does not John 16:8 give this as the Holy Spirit's duty on the earth?

2. In the narrative of Lazarus and the rich man, would it not be a lie if our Lord Jesus said that Abraham did something that he actually did not do? Using proper names makes the narrative true. Our Lord is TRUTH. He would never misrepresent a situation. Now consider this. At death Lazarus would have put off his body. Gone would be his hunger and his pain. Why then did he need to be comforted in Abraham's bosom?

3. Would you agree with the following: If you read John 3:5 accurately, is ENTRY into the Kingdom based on faith or is it based on what you DO? I'll give you a hint. Read Galatians 5:21 and Ephesians 5:5 and tell me if ENTRY is based on what you DO or what you believe. If you are not sure after these two witnesses, I recommend reading Mathew 19 and deciding if the rich young man could ENTER the Kingdom by faith or by selling all and giving it away? Note that Jesus uses "life" and the Kingdom interchangeably  and then his disciples used it to mean "be saved". Now consider ... honestly ... if the Thief next to Jesus could ENTER the Kingdom when he admits that he has only done evil?

If you are brutally honest you will come to the conclusion that there was not a chance for the thief to be found righteous IN HIS WORKS. Add the fact that he did not have time to be Baptized. And you will then notice that Jesus DID NOT PROMISE HIM ENTRY into the KINGDOM. Paradise has nothing to do with the Kingdom! Paradise is for "comforting" the dead in Christ.

There is more, but I'll have my brethren, who are not as gentle as you, on my neck. Think about it! Don't forget to read my posting again - critically.

Blessings Brother-

Thank you,always a pleasure.....It is certainly not the first time I have heard what you've written ,as I mentioned these are widely accepted beliefs held by many Christians I will be happy to respond as you ask when I have time..... although you said " then I will have an argument" I know WE will not,lol   Even with a different view that's not going to transpire❤️

I doubt there'll be too many on your back,I think most do interpret these Scriptures as you have..... personally ,I'm not hardcore Convicted on the location of Hades and I'm not the one who said Jesus Promised the theif on the Cross he'd be going to Heaven or the Kingdom or equated Paradise as such

Anyway,I will keep it in mind to come back

Meanwhile,if you celebrate Easter Sunday then have a Happy Resurrection Day Celebration with your loved ones!

In His Love,Kwik

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Frits said:

Based on the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles, I am afraid I cannot agree with your statement. I will give you Bible verses that clearly show that the Gospel of God was preached to the dead.

The Lord Jesus Christ said:

'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.' (Joh 5:25 KJV )

And his apostel Paul wrote:

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. (Efe 5:14 KJV)

Shabbat shalom, @Frits.

In John 5:25, Yeeshuwa` is talking about calling forth the dead to RESURRECTION, not "preaching to them." The same is true for Ephesians 5:14. He will call them out of their graves just as He did for 'Eleazar ("Lazarus").

[Frits]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, @Frits.

In John 5:25, Yeeshuwa` is talking about calling forth the dead to RESURRECTION, not "preaching to them." The same is true for Ephesians 5:14. He will call them out of their graves just as He did for 'Eleazar ("Lazarus").

Hello and greetings @Retrobyter,

The resurrection that the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of always begins with hearing and accepting His words. That is why it says:

'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.'

 So not only 'is coming', but also 'and now is'.

He said 'is coming', because that concerns the dead people who are held in Hades, and to whom the Lord Jesus Christ will preach in the Power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 23:46) after His death. Dying provides Him with the opportunity to also find this group in Hades and to save them too, hallelujah!

But it is very clear that the Lord Jesus also said 'and now is'. 'and now is', happens at that one moment (now) when a person hears the Lord Jesus Christ and believes that He is the true God, loves Him and worships Him. At that moment the believer is born again and comes from darkness into the light. Through the new birth the sinner rises from the dead, and can live by God's grace. That is why Paul wrote:

Eph 5:14 KJV 

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and rise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Edited April 19 by Frits

[Frits]

18 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The grammar of of 1st Peter 3:18-19 concerns what the Spirit did. It means; "Jesus, raised by the Spirit BY which (Spirit) Noah THEN was inspired to preach to the spirits who are NOW in prison"

Greetings @AdHoc,

Speaking of grammar, in 1 Peter 3:18 the subject is CHRIST, not Noah. 
The Lord Jesus Christ suffered for sins, not Noah. The Lord Jesus Christ was 'put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit', not Noah. 
And so the Lord Jesus Christ 'quickened by the Spirit' entered Hades, to preach His Gospel to the spirits of men. 

The Kurios God Himself entered Hades, and that had never happened before! David prophesied about it in Psalm 24.

Psa 24:8-10 KJV 
Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 

Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 

Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

Edited April 19 by Frits

[Retrobyter]

55 minutes ago, Frits said:

Hello and greetings @Retrobyter,

The resurrection that the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of always begins with hearing and accepting His words. That is why it says:

'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.'

 So not only 'is coming', but also 'and now is'.

He said 'is coming', because that concerns the dead people who are held in Hades, and to whom the Lord Jesus Christ will preach in the Power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 23:46) after His death. Dying provides Him with the opportunity to also find this group in Hades and to save them too, hallelujah!

But it is very clear that the Lord Jesus also said 'and now is'. 'and now is', happens at that one moment (now) when a person hears the Lord Jesus Christ and believes that He is the true God, loves Him and worships Him. At that moment the believer is born again and comes from darkness into the light. Through the new birth the sinner rises from the dead, and can live by God's grace. That is why Paul wrote:

Eph 5:14 KJV 

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and rise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Shabbat shalom, @Frits.

The most frustrating thing to me is when a believer doesn't take the time to learn the definitions of particular words in the Scriptures. One doesn't have to get one's defintions from dictionaries or lexicons; one can get the definitions in just how they are used within the Scriptures!

I can GUARANTEE that one will have a HORRIBLE LEARNING CURVE to overcome, when the Lord returns! It may take a THOUSAND YEARS to relearn all that he or she once thought he or she knew!

FOR INSTANCE, did you know that "heaven" doesn't mean "God's Abode?" That comes from THEOLOGICAL PHILOSOPHY! No, the word "heaven" is used either to translate the Hebrew word  # ("shaamayim") or the Greek word # ("ouranos"), and BOTH words are talking about the "SKY" (or "SKIES"), what one sees in and through this planet's atmosphere! If one needs proof of that, simply look at Genesis 1 and Matthew 16:1-4. Look up the words and see how they are used IN CONTEXT!

We add a LOT of fiction to "what we believe," and that started with the first ecumenical creed (or statement of faith) in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea! And, it became really bad when they mixed in not only Greek philosophy but also Greek mythology!

I'm going to leave it at that ... for now.

[Frits]

29 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, @Frits.

The most frustrating thing to me is when a believer doesn't take the time to learn the definitions of particular words in the Scriptures. One doesn't have to get one's defintions from dictionaries or lexicons; one can get the definitions in just how they are used within the Scriptures!

I can GUARANTEE that one will have a HORRIBLE LEARNING CURVE to overcome, when the Lord returns! It may take a THOUSAND YEARS to relearn all that he or she once thought he or she knew!

FOR INSTANCE, did you know that "heaven" doesn't mean "God's Abode?" That comes from THEOLOGICAL PHILOSOPHY! No, the word "heaven" is used either to translate the Hebrew word  # ("shaamayim") or the Greek word # ("ouranos"), and BOTH words are talking about the "SKY" (or "SKIES"), what one sees in and through this planet's atmosphere! If one needs proof of that, simply look at Genesis 1 and Matthew 16:1-4. Look up the words and see how they are used IN CONTEXT!

We add a LOT of fiction to "what we believe," and that started with the first ecumenical creed (or statement of faith) in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea! And, it became really bad when they mixed in not only Greek philosophy but also Greek mythology!

I'm going to leave it at that ... for now.

Hi @Retrobyter,

When you respond please try to stay on topic by saying "amen" to my posts, or if you reject them, by specifically referencing the Bible. Have a nice day!

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Frits said:

Greetings @AdHoc,

Speaking of grammar, in 1 Peter 3:18 the subject is CHRIST, not Noah. 
The Lord Jesus Christ suffered for sins, not Noah. The Lord Jesus Christ was 'put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit', not Noah. 
And so the Lord Jesus Christ 'quickened by the Spirit' entered Hades, to preach His Gospel to the spirits of men. 

The Kurios God Himself entered Hades, and that had never happened before! David prophesied about it in Psalm 24.

Psa 24:8-10 KJV 
Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 

Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 

Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

Your reply is read and noted. Thanks.

[Locust]

4 hours ago, Frits said:

And so the Lord Jesus Christ 'quickened by the Spirit' entered Hades, to preach His Gospel to the spirits of men. 

no , at least not when you think he did