What was God`s Purpose in making the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

[biblelesson]

On 6/1/2025 at 1:38 AM, Marilyn C said:

So, what do you think (from God`s word if you can) was God`s Purpose in making -

1. The Nations.

2. Israel.

3. The Body of Christ.

 

If you can only comment on one group, that is fine.

By Nations, I suspect you mean Man.

This is not a quick answer, but I will try to make it short!

God put man in the garden of Eden and there were two trees. We know what their choice was, but most don’t consider the purpose of eating from the other tree, the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life is not just a title, it was suppose to do something. Just like the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil did something-lead to death.

Well the Tree of Life lead to life when eaten from. In Genesis God said man had to be put out of the garden, after he became corrupted, UNLESS, he eats from the Tree of Life - and live forever. So, that tells us that corrupted or not, eating from the Tree of Life would have caused man to live forever.

Why? Because God was creating children like Him. Man’s body is flesh, and it was the tree of life, if eaten from, that would change man from flesh to spirit, that is a spirit body that could not die - for example, like what a seed does when planted in the ground. You have the seed first, in a different body, that produces another body, that is, beautified flowers. It’s what’s produced from the seed that’s more glorious.

1 Corinthians explains this process:

1 Corinthians 15:36-38 KJV, 
36   Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 
37   And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 
38   But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

This process is what the Tree of Life would have produced, without death, if man hadn’t eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

1 Corinthians 15:51 KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:46 KJV
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So, now due to man becoming corrupted, if we are without God’s incorruptible seed, the Holy Spirit, that man will be raised from the dead still corrupted in a body where they will live forever - flesh is now spirit. So, due to that corruption, they cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven, they must be destroyed. 
But, only those who have the Spirit, will be raised incorrupted, and live forever in the kingdom with Christ.

Israel: God choosing Israel is based on His salvation plan to redeem man, and Israel was a representation of the one who could save us, Christ Jesus.
 

God first established His choosing of his saints through the promise He made to Abraham, then He made the separation between the law and the promise  through Issac, then He established predestination through Jacob and Esau, and chose Jacob, thereby changing His name to Israel, and established the 12 tribes of Israel- until the seed comes - Jesus Christ. 
 

The body of Christ: Redemption is in Christ, and those who belong to Him are joined by His Spirit. If a person does not have this Spirit, like mentioned above, their resurrection will result in a body that’s still corrupted. But those in Christ, their resurrection will result in incorruption, because they possess Christ Spirit that is life. So, because Christ, through His Spirit, lives in all true believers, they are the Body of Christ - they can be saved because they are joined to Christ by His body. 

Romans 8:9-11 KJV
9   But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 
10   And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 
11   But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 

It is so much more - it will take a lot of time to go over all the related scriptures to your question. But good question!

Edited Thursday at 03:31 PM by biblelesson

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, biblelesson said:

11   But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 

I disagree on one point--or perhaps to further clarify by commenting. I think it is a mistake so refer to a 'spirit body'. Spirit is breath and in this case is the breath of Life. A specific Life--Christ. Christ's resurrection body was flesh and bone. No need any longer for the blood. In a natural man the life is in the blood. In the resurrected bodies our Life is Christ--which becomes the completion of what we are sealed for. It is also clear that we will have additional capabilities although scripture (that I am aware of) only mentions one. Christ could walk through walls--somehow. Corruption will put on incorruption. An incorruptible body.

I do not think this hermeneutic is simply splitting hairs. Consider it.

[biblelesson]

9 minutes ago, Alive said:

I disagree on one point--or perhaps to further clarify by commenting. I think it is a mistake so refer to a 'spirit body'. Spirit is breath and in this case is the breath of Life. A specific Life--Christ. Christ's resurrection body was flesh and bone. No need any longer for the blood. In a natural man the life is in the blood. In the resurrected bodies our Life is Christ--which becomes the completion of what we are sealed for. It is also clear that we will have additional capabilities although scripture (that I am aware of) only mentions one. Christ could walk through walls--somehow. Corruption will put on incorruption. An incorruptible body.

I do not think this hermeneutic is simply splitting hairs. Consider it.

I’m not clear on your point,

But, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the Kingdom, new Jerusalem as heirs to the Kingdom.

Both believers and nonbelievers will be raised from the dead and will have spirit bodies. But, only those in Christ will have the Life of Christ. Nonbelievers will not have the Life of Christ.

 

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, biblelesson said:

I’m not clear on your point,

But, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the Kingdom, new Jerusalem as heirs to the Kingdom.

Both believers and nonbelievers will be raised from the dead and will have spirit bodies. But, only those in Christ will have the Life of Christ. Nonbelievers will not have the Life of Christ.

 

I find no where in scripture a reference to a spirit body. It's a non-sequitur. Our resurrection bodies will be made of flesh and bone with our Life source being Christ.

[tatwo]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

You also have thought quite a lot. I agree we, the believer in the Body of Christ are the New Man, a spirit man. We will not be on the New Earth but in glory with the Lord. (Rev. 3: 21)

Scripturally...and working from my last post to you Marilyn...in terms of the “Kingdom of God”...that eternal spiritual realm of the Living God...is here now. For the “sons of God” who have “entered into the Kingdom of God”...are already in heaven...by the Spirit. There are a number of passages that support this truth...I’ll include only one of them.

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ [Spirit] (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” Ephesians 2:4-7 NASB

This is an “invisible Spirit reality”...its known as being “in Christ”...this does not include flesh and blood. Hence...in that way He [Holy Spirit] has already “raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus”...in other words we are on the throne of God in Christ. Seems like a straight forward concept...as I have encountered...either one believes it or they do not...that depends upon their faith...and perhaps humility...but there can be no mixture of the two realities.

So based upon what Paul said...the Spirit Sons of God are “already in glory” with the Lord...while I can agree that the ages will change...I am not waiting for some future event to “get into heaven or to glory” spiritually...because I am already here in Christ...great is the mystery of godliness Sister?

Not only that...but I know what it is that I am to be doing in this life “specifically”...as I am God’s workmanship...created in Christ Yahshua for good works which my Father planned for me to walk in before He put creation in place.

This is actually what I am being reconciled to in this life today! I am...as any maturing son of God is...learning how to live out of an eternal life here and now in this present creation...that I might be fully prepared for the utter end of this age...and to rule in the age to come.

To miss this may not cost one their salvation...however it will make things much more complicated than they need to be moving forward in time.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

As to the nations and Israel God made them for a purpose and He will yet fulfill that.

Of course and I agree...with some exceptions...things that I have already presented to you. Marilyn C I understand your “eschatological world view” to an acceptable degree...I have been reading you for years. Everything that was created...was created by intention and for purpose by the Lord and for Him only.

The Kingdom of Heaven [Holy Spirit Realm in creation] and the Kingdom of God [All authority and Power in creation] is presently an invisible eternal spiritual Kingdom...spanning both the heavens and the earth? It supports a completely different “citizenry”...an invisible yet real “spiritual citizenry”...they are the Spirit born Sons of God...known as “the spirits of the righteous made perfect.”

The classifications you are using “nations – gentiles” and “Israel – Jews” have merit when speaking to a flesh and blood “earthly creature and existence.”  It seems that you routinely conflate the eternal spiritual and temporally created realms...you may not see that...it is apparent to me...I understand that doctrinal stance also. For whatever it’s worth...I urge you to reconsider that position...and talk to the Holy Spirit about these things I am presenting you. May God strengthen you...via revelation?

The former is eternal and spiritual...it is timeless, ageless unending ages, no beginning and no ending...Holy Spirit in character and nature...Yahshua. These are the ones who have passed through death into life...though some of them are yet clothed upon by flesh. All flesh will cease and yet...the Spirit that abides in Christ...within that dying flesh...cannot cease...it is this life that we are to pursue.

The other...is temporal and physical...that which is created...has a beginning and has an ending just as everything that God created...will cease to exist when they have fulfilled God’s divine purposes. This includes all nations and peoples...for it is from them...the Father has granted to His Son...that He may reap a people for His name...those created in His image and likeness...Spirit...not flesh.

The separation my Sister is happening as you read this...perhaps you might consider the “priesthood” and its role in the administration of its attendant covenant. With the Old Covenant you had the priesthood of “Aaron” aka the “Levitical priesthood” made up of finite men from Israel...who administered the elements of God for them...as a promised nation in order to bring forth...the seed of promise. This “Levitical priesthood”...was never intended as an eternal priesthood...and it is not Marilyn.

With the New Covenant you have a “Royal priesthood” after the eternal order of Melchisedek remember? This Royal priesthood is not made up of finite men...but rather of righteous eternal spirits of men. Additionally its designation as “Royal” comes from the fact that the King of kings is upon the throne of God...and He is also the High Priest of the eternal priesthood...which existed long before creation...the nations or the Jews...no beginning no ending...eternal!

All elements of the Old Covenant are fulfilled in and by the Lord Yahshua Christ...as He has instituted the New Covenant in His blood. Those in Christ whose lives are already eternal in their nature and in their pursuit...do so via their spirit.

It is this order of “Royal Priests – Yahshua and His Spirit breathed Sons of God” who administer the elements of the New Covenant...this includes the entirety of the eschaton...of which in part they will be ordering forth God’s judgment. In order to partake of the New Covenant Truths, promises and prophecies...one must be a Spirit son of God.

A spiritual nation of eternal Kings and Priests...eternity can only be inhabited by Spirit...the Holy Spirit of the living God to be precise. A place where there are no “free and slave...male or female...Jew or gentile” this place is here...now...today.

All the “Sons of God” are like their Father who is Spirit...if you are a son of God it is by His Spirit that you are His offspring...so you are Spirit. Some of us are yet in these fleshly bodies...however I should think that most of us are already with Him...by Spirit.

Outside of the “remnant” of “Spirit Sons to God” from Israel...as it is with any and all other nations...there will be no earthly nations or flesh and blood people in the “Royal Priesthood” Sister. This simply cannot happen...Scripture makes the point emphatically...those who believe and try...will fail. It will take that for many to see the error in false doctrines...if they have been born again.

Tatwo...:)

[biblelesson]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

I find no where in scripture a reference to a spirit body. It's a non-sequitur. Our resurrection bodies will be made of flesh and bone with our Life source being Christ.

So I can understand, where are the scriptures that define the body when resurrected you are referring to? 
 

And, if our body will be like Christ, is not Christ’s body a spiritual body? 

Edited Thursday at 05:19 PM by biblelesson

[Alive]

8 minutes ago, biblelesson said:

So I can understand, where are the scriptures that define the body when redirected you are referring to? 
 

And, if our body will be like Christ, is not Christ’s body a spiritual body? 

I have put together all the scriptures in the NT that contain the two words body and spirit--as you can see the term 'spirit body' is nowhere mentioned. A spirit and a body are very distinct things. This is a very common misunderstanding. Is Christ's body a 'spiritual body' that question becomes difficult. He has a body as evidenced by many things that happened after His resurrection and interaction with many people. God is a Spirit--which relates as I see things to a Nature of Life--but I don't feel comfortable trying to understand that. What we are addressing is the new bodies we will have after the change. We will not be 'disembodied spirits'. This corruption will become incorruptible. Only substance can be corrupted in the context of what Paul wrote. Death will be swallowed up and eliminated from any possibility for us after Christ Returns.

----1John 3:2 (NAS20S) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.----

Acts 19:12 (NAS20S) so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out.

 

Rom. 8:10 (NAS20S) If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. ¹¹ But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

Rom. 8:13 (NAS20S) for if you are living in accord with the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

 

Rom. 8:23 (NAS20S) And not only that, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons and daughters, the redemption of our body.

 

1Cor. 5:3 (NAS20S)   For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.

 

1Cor. 5:5 (NAS20S) I have decided to turn such a person over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

 

1Cor. 6:19 (NAS20S) Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

 

1Cor. 7:34 (NAS20S) and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

 

1Cor. 12:13 (NAS20S) For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

 

Eph. 4:4 (NAS20S) There is one body and one Spirit, just as you also were called in one hope of your calling;

 

Col. 2:5 (NAS20S) For even though I am absent in body, I am nevertheless with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your orderly manner and the stability of your faith in Christ.

 

1Th. 5:23 (NAS20S)   Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

James 2:26 (NAS20S) For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

[biblelesson]

On 6/5/2025 at 1:21 PM, Alive said:

I have put together all the scriptures in the NT that contain the two words body and spirit--as you can see the term 'spirit body' is nowhere mentioned. A spirit and a body are very distinct things. This is a very common misunderstanding. Is Christ's body a 'spiritual body' that question becomes difficult. He has a body as evidenced by many things that happened after His resurrection and interaction with many people. God is a Spirit--which relates as I see things to a Nature of Life--but I don't feel comfortable trying to understand that.

“spirit body” is how you are defining it, but I mentioned a spiritual body, and there are plenty scriptures that attest to man becoming a spiritual body:

1 Corinthians 15:44 KJV
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45-46 KJV
45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 
46   Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 
 

Also, angels have spiritual bodies, and some of their descriptions are beyond understanding- so we have to be careful and not deny truth just because it’s beyond our understanding.
For example, no human can understand Ezekiel 1:17-20 KJV, 17 “When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.” 18  “As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.” 19  “And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.” 
20   Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

Now, I wouldn’t pretend I can comprehend these living creatures  in Ezekiel. But I can say they are not human beings like on earth.

And what about the angel God road upon: Ezekiel 1:26-28 KJV,  26  “And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.    WOW, WHO IS THIS? Verse 28 tells us - 27 “And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.” 28 “As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Now considering this magnificent display of heavenly creatures and the Lord Himself, how can we possible give our opinion. We can’t! We can only accept the words of scripture and understanding we have to try our best to understand always praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance- sometimes we have to grab our brains and stop it from going into make believe, and deal with what we  just don’t understand and even what we might not agree with.

So, back to Christ having a spiritual body. You mentioned what the bible says about Jesus walking through walls. Well we know that flesh and blood can’t walk through walls.

You mentioned Jesus was flesh and bone, without blood. So, what we know is Jesus ascended twice after resurrection, 1) Jesus was seen after resurrection before He made His first ascension. 2) First Ascension: He ascended to present the wave offering in heaven. [There He must have sprinkled His blood for the sins of the world on God’s Alter] based on the sprinkling of the blood laws given to Israel - God told Moses to fashion the Tabernacle after the patten in heaven,Hebrews 8:5 KJV, and this included the sprinkling of the blood, 

3) After Jesus first ascension, He then returned to earth and was with His disciples many days. It was during this time Jesus was flesh and bone. He was not yet spirit - He returned in a body that would permit man to see Him - He still had all the scars.
 

This is what Jesus said, Luke 24:39 KJV: Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

4) Jesus final ascension: We don’t know how Jesus’s body was finally changed to a glorious spiritual body.

And why mention disembodied spirits - to be honest, no one has ever seen a spiritual body - disembodied or not. 

Edited 8 hours ago by biblelesson

[Alive]

Lord willing, I will add some thoughts at another time.

This has been a good conversation.