Church of Christ

[other one]

Also, Horizon, you weasled out of that one quite well

LOL - ak

[Khristeeanos]

Which means that you believe severely retarded and mentally ill people; infants, very young children and even unborn babies go to hell.

I don't.

I don't believe that either. Children are innocent and unaware of sin, as are retarded people. They are not capable of sin.

[Work in Progress]

Children are innocent and unaware of sin

No offense, but that made me laugh out loud. I take it you've never raised a child??

I love 'em to death, but buddy, children sin. And I assure you they can be quite good at it.

Doesn't much matter, though. The Scripture is clear that every human being is born with the sin nature, apart from God and in need of a Savior. It's not the sin that condemns us, it's the nature we are born with.

[Fiosh]

Children are innocent and unaware of sin

No offense, but that made me laugh out loud. I take it you've never raised a child??

I love 'em to death, but buddy, children sin. And I assure you they can be quite good at it.

Doesn't much matter, though. The Scripture is clear that every human being is born with the sin nature, apart from God and in need of a Savior. It's not the sin that condemns us, it's the nature we are born with.

What is your belief concerning babies and young children? Do they go to hell?

[Work in Progress]

I don't know, as the Bible does not address it. I believe that Scripture is true when it says over and over that there is none good, not one, that all are born dead. That Christ is the only way to Salvation. I believe Christ when He said "You did not choose me, I chose you". I believe Scripture when it says God chose His people to Him before he ever created the world. Maybe every young child who dies was one of His - like I said, I don't know because the Bible doesn't say. The only thing I am sure of is that God is 100% perfect and Sovereign and Just (not "fair") and is not accountable to His creation.

You're Catholic, right? Doesn't a Priest have to give last rites for someone to go to Heaven? I was under the impression that if someone did not receive last rites, they would not go to Heaven. So, don't you believe that a child who did not receive last rites will not go to Heaven? I'm truly sorry if that is an ignorant question, and please correct me if what I believe about your faith is wrong.

[apothanein kerdos]

Why does everyone assume that baptism automatically means "into water?" All it means is to be immersed to the point of change. Thus when used saying "Baptized into Christ" it means to be "fully emerged in Christ." The water baptism did, and still does, hold major significance in middle eastern culture. Then and now it signified the seriousness of a person's belief. Even today, a converted Muslim, if publically baptized, is only then recognized as a true convert (from the Muslim perspective).

Also, Horizon, you weasled out of that one quite well

I can say with certaintly that if a person has not accepted Christ prior to death he will go to hell. You, on the other hand, when faced with the question if a person was baptized or not, cannot answer it. The Bible gives us clear direction on what sends us to hell and what doesn't. Thus if Baptism is necessary for salvation, then we have to be baptized to be saved. It is that simple. If there is always an "exception", then why accept Christ in the first place? Why not just be a good person?

Which means that you believe severely retarded and mentally ill people; infants, very young children and even unborn babies go to hell.

I don't.

Who are you to assume they haven't accepted Christ?

[Fiosh]

Why does everyone assume that baptism automatically means "into water?" All it means is to be immersed to the point of change. Thus when used saying "Baptized into Christ" it means to be "fully emerged in Christ." The water baptism did, and still does, hold major significance in middle eastern culture. Then and now it signified the seriousness of a person's belief. Even today, a converted Muslim, if publically baptized, is only then recognized as a true convert (from the Muslim perspective).

Also, Horizon, you weasled out of that one quite well

I can say with certaintly that if a person has not accepted Christ prior to death he will go to hell. You, on the other hand, when faced with the question if a person was baptized or not, cannot answer it. The Bible gives us clear direction on what sends us to hell and what doesn't. Thus if Baptism is necessary for salvation, then we have to be baptized to be saved. It is that simple. If there is always an "exception", then why accept Christ in the first place? Why not just be a good person?

Which means that you believe severely retarded and mentally ill people; infants, very young children and even unborn babies go to hell.

I don't.

Who are you to assume they haven't accepted Christ?

You are of course right, ak, I cannot assume that. That does, however, get us into some very interesting territory.

[apothanein kerdos]

Why does everyone assume that baptism automatically means "into water?" All it means is to be immersed to the point of change. Thus when used saying "Baptized into Christ" it means to be "fully emerged in Christ." The water baptism did, and still does, hold major significance in middle eastern culture. Then and now it signified the seriousness of a person's belief. Even today, a converted Muslim, if publically baptized, is only then recognized as a true convert (from the Muslim perspective).

Also, Horizon, you weasled out of that one quite well

I can say with certaintly that if a person has not accepted Christ prior to death he will go to hell. You, on the other hand, when faced with the question if a person was baptized or not, cannot answer it. The Bible gives us clear direction on what sends us to hell and what doesn't. Thus if Baptism is necessary for salvation, then we have to be baptized to be saved. It is that simple. If there is always an "exception", then why accept Christ in the first place? Why not just be a good person?

Which means that you believe severely retarded and mentally ill people; infants, very young children and even unborn babies go to hell.

I don't.

Who are you to assume they haven't accepted Christ?

You are of course right, ak, I cannot assume that. That does, however, get us into some very interesting territory.

It certainly does. I do, however, see the two as seperate issues. A person's percieved inability (though that is something I have been studying) to accept Christ could be forgivable. At the same time, to assert that a person who accepts Christ but is not baptized goes to hell opens an entirely different can of worms.

[Fiosh]

I don't know, as the Bible does not address it. I believe that Scripture is true when it says over and over that there is none good, not one, that all are born dead. That Christ is the only way to Salvation. I believe Christ when He said "You did not choose me, I chose you". I believe Scripture when it says God chose His people to Him before he ever created the world. Maybe every young child who dies was one of His - like I said, I don't know because the Bible doesn't say. The only thing I am sure of is that God is 100% perfect and Sovereign and Just (not "fair") and is not accountable to His creation.

You're Catholic, right? Doesn't a Priest have to give last rites for someone to go to Heaven? I was under the impression that if someone did not receive last rites, they would not go to Heaven. So, don't you believe that a child who did not receive last rites will not go to Heaven? I'm truly sorry if that is an ignorant question, and please correct me if what I believe about your faith is wrong.

Hi W in P:

Yes, I am Catholic. And, no, the RCC does not teach that a person must receive last rites (technically called "Anointing of the Sick" ) to go to heaven. The Sacrament is based on James 5:14-15. It's benefits are to impart the grace of the Holy Spirit of strength, courage and peace; to unite the sufferer more closely with Christ's Passion; to ask for healing if it is God's will; and if the sickness ends in death, to prepare the soul for it's final journey thru the forgiveness of sins.

Peace,

Fiosh

PS. Thank you for your question.

Edited December 12, 2005 by Fiosh

[RGR]

I don't know, as the Bible does not address it. I believe that Scripture is true when it says over and over that there is none good, not one, that all are born dead. That Christ is the only way to Salvation. I believe Christ when He said "You did not choose me, I chose you". I believe Scripture when it says God chose His people to Him before he ever created the world. Maybe every young child who dies was one of His - like I said, I don't know because the Bible doesn't say. The only thing I am sure of is that God is 100% perfect and Sovereign and Just (not "fair") and is not accountable to His creation.

You're Catholic, right? Doesn't a Priest have to give last rites for someone to go to Heaven? I was under the impression that if someone did not receive last rites, they would not go to Heaven. So, don't you believe that a child who did not receive last rites will not go to Heaven? I'm truly sorry if that is an ignorant question, and please correct me if what I believe about your faith is wrong.

Actually the Bible does address it:

II Samuel 12:23

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

This, of course, is after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba and the child produced from that union had died. David rejoiced in the fact that he would see the child again; I don't think there is any other way to translate this.

What of Samson, John, and others who were chosen by God before birth?