satan and Yeshua referred to as morning star

[WillingToDie]

It states that Lucifer is the "son" of the morning whereas other translations have "star."

I don't know about the other translations, but according to the first post (I'm too lazy to check for myself), the NIV states "son of the dawn", which is more or less the same thing as "son of the morning"

The only difference I see between the two translations (aside from the verbs, of course) is that KJV leaves it as "Lucifer", and NIV translates "Lucifer" to "the morning star".

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding you, in which case, ignore this post.

[aaronjm]

That's cool, thank you, I need to learn Greek, and Hebrew to get a better understanding of scripture. Thanks again

Aaron

[Leonard]

"EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME!" (steps up to the microphone in the crowded room..... "Is this thing on? TESTING, TESTING" THUMP!!! THUMP!!!!

"Excuse me, but before we get in too big a rush here; where does the Bible ever tell us that 'Lucifer' and 'Satan' are the same being?"

[larryt]

yes it is a mistake with the niv.

ummm, no. If it's a mistake in the NIV, then it is a mistake in the KJV, and we all know the KJV is an absolutely, infallible translation.

From the KJV:

Isiah 14:12-How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Revelation 22:16-I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

While yes, the KJV says "Lucifer", a quick check at dictionary.com gives you:

Lu

[apothanein kerdos]

yes it is a mistake with the niv.

ummm, no. If it's a mistake in the NIV, then it is a mistake in the KJV, and we all know the KJV is an absolutely, infallible translation.

From the KJV:

Isiah 14:12-How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Revelation 22:16-I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

While yes, the KJV says "Lucifer", a quick check at dictionary.com gives you:

Lu

[other one]

"EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME!" (steps up to the microphone in the crowded room..... "Is this thing on? TESTING, TESTING" THUMP!!! THUMP!!!!

"Excuse me, but before we get in too big a rush here; where does the Bible ever tell us that 'Lucifer' and 'Satan' are the same being?"

That is a good question Leonard. I'd like to know where that idea came from myself.

Sam

[larryt]

You're grasping at straws Larry. The "new" versions are simply interpreting it in a proper manner. I offered my belief on the proper interpretation, but other scholars who know more than I would stick with the NASB interpretation.

Let's also not foget that the KJ has MANY inadequacies.

Hi Joel,

Do you know who Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon is? Maybe you might like to read his testimony.

LT

[apothanein kerdos]

You're grasping at straws Larry. The "new" versions are simply interpreting it in a proper manner. I offered my belief on the proper interpretation, but other scholars who know more than I would stick with the NASB interpretation.

Let's also not foget that the KJ has MANY inadequacies.

Hi Joel,

Do you know who Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon is? Maybe you might like to read his testimony.

LT

The Board of Directors of The Lockman Foundation launched the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE translation work in the late 1950's following the completion of the AMPLIFIED NEW TESTAMENT. Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon was acquainted with Dewey Lockman, president of The Lockman Foundation, prior to Mr. Lockman's death in 1974. Mr. Logsdon was never a member of the Board of Directors, nor was he an employee of The Lockman Foundation. Mr. Logsdon had no authority to hire employees or translators for the Foundation, to set policy, to vote, to hold office, to incur expenses, etc. He cannot be considered "co-founder" of the NASB, nor part of The Lockman Foundation, nor part of the NASB translation team, nor did he write the forward of the NASB. According to our records, he was present at board meetings on two occasions -- once to hear a travel report; and once to deliver an "inspirational thought."

Mr. Logsdon last wrote to Mr. Lockman in fall of 1973 that he was moving to Florida. Mr. Lockman replied that he was surprised and saddened by his decision to leave the area. Mr. Lockman passed away in January of 1974, and no further correspondence was exchanged between Frank Logsdon and The Lockman Foundation. He resided in Florida until his passing some years ago.

found here

Also, his history is off. Part of the Codex Sinaiticus pre-dates Constantine.

[WillingToDie]

I've read it, and honestly, I'm not convinced.

He employs some very poor arguments, and he fails to cite any sources for his historical information. As far as I know, he just made that stuff up (it's not unheard of), or he's severely distorting something.

[nebula]

"EXCUSE ME, "Excuse me, but before we get in too big a rush here; where does the Bible ever tell us that 'Lucifer' and 'Satan' are the same being?"

That is a good question Leonard. I'd like to know where that idea came from myself.

Never heard that one being challenged before . . . what are you thinking, Leonard?