Question about current events

[Guest shiloh357]

Hey Candi!! I am not putting you off. I just saw this today. I will answer your question tonight after work, when I can really give you well thought out answer.

Glad you are liking the Israel thread!

[Guest shiloh357]

I am back Candi. Concerning Israel's relationship with the US. The US has been dancing on thin ice where Israel is concerned. I personally believe if it were not for strong support for Israel coming from Christian sectors, the US would be worse off in many ways.

The United States is not in good place at all, and has not been for while, where Israel is concerned. I posted the following facts before I still hold to them I believe they more than address your question.

I am going to preface my response by saying that I love America!! I love my country, and would die to protect my freedoms. I believe in the Constitution of the United States and am true blue patriot!! So, what I am about to say is not America bashing, but is simply the honest truth. We are a great people, but we have erred where little Israel is concerned.

Many people are under the impression that "America supports Israel." This is true on paper, but not so much where the facts on the ground are concerned.

Going back even before Israel was reborn, did you know that the U.S. and Great Britain both prevented Jewish immigration to what was at the time, "Palestine" from Europe during the "Hitler years?" Many Jews tried to escape the Nazis by immigrating to Palestine, but the Arab world put up a fuss and threatened to cut off oil. Millions of Jews were stuck in Nazi occupied countries and were sacrificed for the sake of oil.

Even today, many of our dealings with Israel and our demands being placed upon the Jews living there are the product of our government having to protect its oil interests in that part of the world. Why is Israel prevented from doing what EVERY other nation would do if they were faced with the magnitude of danger that Israel faces??? Because the Arab world knows that it is not powerful enough to match Israel militarily. They use their influence in the area of oil, to get what they want. America, in order to placate the Arab world, and thus protect US oil interests, calls upon Israel to make insane concessions and compromises. Israel is strong-armed by the US to make compromises that the US would never make under similar conditions. Even today, many Jews have died needlessly because Israel has been told that they are to "show restraint." They are told not to respond to terrorist attacks. For years Arab terrorists strike with impunity, because Jews are being sacrificed on the altar of US oil interests.

Another way the US has been instrumental in wrecking Israel is with the "Road Map" for peace. It is the "Road Map" to Hell, if we were honest. This road map is chiefly of US design, but credit is also given the "quartet" of nations. This quartet interestingly includes United Nations, Russian Federation, the United States and the European Union. How is that a quartet??? That is the entire world!!! However, there was ONE nation that was not given any say-so as to how the road map should look. One nation in the entire world was not permitted to have ANY input whatsoever. I will give you three guesses who that nation is. If you guessed "Israel," you would be right. So far, everyone (US included) have been preaching to Israel about their obligations under the road map, and yet the first step in the road map belonged to the Palestinians, and no one has EVER held the Palestinian Authority to its obligations.

Under the Road Map, the Palestinian Authority was to dismantle all terrorist organizations operating in its jurisdiction.That was the first item on the Road Map. Not only did the terrorism escalate, but because the PA refused to keep its obligations, one of the very groups it was supposed to dismantle is now heading the Palestinian government!!! The election of Hamas is a violation of the Oslo Accords of 1993, and the US sponsored "Road Map."

One of the most horrific land give-aways, was the Sinai give-away engineered by Jimmy Carter. During the Yom Kippur war, Israel not only defeated the Egyptians but pushed the Egyptian Army back across the Sinai and all the way back into Egypt to within 40 miles of Cairo. Had the UN not called for a cease fire, Israel could have captured Cairo, the Capital of Egypt. Israel grew in size by 74% with their recapture of the Sinai Peninsula. In order to promote peace with Egypt, President Carter convinced Menachem Begin to relinquish the Sinai back to Egypt.

Israel lost an incredible amount of benefits by leaving the Sinai. First of all, Israel lost "Yamit," a Jewish town in the Sinai. 7,000 Israelis were forcibly removed from their homes by Israeli soldiers and the town of Yamit was razed to the ground by the Israeli army. Sound familiar?? Israel lost $17 billion in infrastructure. They lost several air bases, and early warning stations that Israel needed to prevent any further attacks from the East. Israel also lost oil fields that they had developed. Because of the loss of these oil fields, Israel lost the opportunity to become energy independent. Currently, Israel spends more on importing oil than they receive in foreign aid from the United States.

Don't even get me started on US support and encouragement of the recent, insane withdraw from Gaza. Israel is spending many times more $$ to guard around Gaza, than it spent guarding the Jewish towns like Gush Katif.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. The US "supports" Israel because Israel is a strategic bargain. We send $3 billion a year on average to Israel, but we get more in return. Not only does Israel return almost half of that aid to us in the form of weapons sales, but Israel's military operation in conjunction with the US has saved the United States between $50 billion to $80 billion in intelligence, research and development, the capture of Soviet weapons systems during the cold war.

Aid to Israel will never be cut off. This is not because of any moral compass in our government, but because Israel is such a bargain. Besides, the weapons manufacturers will make sure their representatives in congress will oppose any cuts in weapons sales. Frankly, I wish Israel would voluntarily cut itself off of American foreign aid. They don't need our money anyway. Israel's current Gross Domestic Product sits $150 billion. The $3 billion they get from us amounts to 2% of their GDP. American aid cannot be deemed indispensable to Israel's survival. The idea that Israel needs America to survive is a myth.

As for Katrina... I don't believe in coincidences. I am also wondering about the fact that according to the News, 60% of the US in drought conditions. I have to wonder what our government is telling Israel behind the scenes.

"Those who bless you, I will bless, and those who curse you, I will curse.

[Christ's Free Servant]

The idea that Israel needs America to survive is a myth.

I believe this passage of scripture addresses this issue and that it also describes what is happening today and will happen in the days to come. I will add my interpretation in parenthesis:

Isaiah 31

Woe to those who go down to Egypt (The USA) for help,

who rely on horses,

who trust in the multitude of their chariots

and in the great strength of their horsemen,

but do not look to the Holy One of Israel,

or seek help from the LORD.

Yet he too is wise and can bring disaster;

he does not take back his words.

He will rise up against the house of the wicked,

against those who help evildoers.

But the Egyptians (The Americans) are men and not God;

their horses are flesh and not spirit.

When the LORD stretches out his hand,

he who helps will stumble,

he who is helped will fall;

both will perish together.

This is what the LORD says to me:

[Candi770]

Shiloh357,

thank you so much for your response.

I didn't know that much about the history of our involvement-Yuck!!

Other than prayer, How can Christians support Jews apart from our past and present history?

blessings & Thanks again

candi

[angels4u]

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. The US "supports" Israel because Israel is a strategic bargain. We send $3 billion a year on average to Israel, but we get more in return. Not only does Israel return almost half of that aid to us in the form of weapons sales, but Israel's military operation in conjunction with the US has saved the United States between $50 billion to $80 billion in intelligence, research and development, the capture of Soviet weapons systems during the cold war.

Wow, here we go I was always wondering why the U.S is always so supported of Israel, its in their own interest to support them.

And also the U.S. likes to fight the terrosrists, now they don't do it but Israel takes the first step, Israel should have started this a long time ago...they have been very patient.

I hope they keep going and don't get pressured to stop.

But Shiloh, the Bible foretold that the States will also turn AGAINST Israel and so will Canada I'm just wondering what could turn them against Israel.

We might be so close to the tribulation which starts the day Israel will sign a paper with the Antichrist for the sake of peace and prosperity.

(And what would you say most Jewish people think of Aug3 th , I was reading a lot of things happened to Israel on that day?

thanks, Angels

[nebula]

But Shiloh, the Bible foretold that the States will also turn AGAINST Israel and so will Canada

It does?

Where?

[angels4u]

Zech 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped.

In the end the Bible predicts, all nations will be gathered against Israel.

[billie]

Are you also floating the idea that natural disasters in the US are directly related to our relationship with Israel?

Do you think they were just coincidences?

[Guest shiloh357]

Are you suggesting the secular nation of the United States should put the interests of the secular nation of Israel above our own national interests?

No, but that is not really the issue. The issue is that the United States forces Israel to make insane concessions that jeopardize Israel's interests. We can look out for the best interests of Israel without jeopdarizing our own. We do not have to force Israel to make concessions with Hamas, that we would never make with Al Qaeda. It is possible to be an ally without being a hypocrite.

Does Israel put our national interests above hers?

When the US tells them to, yes.

Does the relationship between the two countries have anything to do with Biblical prophecy (no speculation please)?

The United States is conspicuously missing from Bible prophecy or it is called by a different name in the Bible that we are unaware of.

Are you also floating the idea that natural disasters in the US are directly related to our relationship with Israel?

Many of the natural disasters we have faced have come at times when we were strong arming Israel to sacrifice itself on the altar of "peace." The Lord said to Abraham and his descendents three times, "Those who bless you I will bless and those who curse you I will curse."

I agree with Cal Thomas who said, "I think we should stop calling it a 'peace process.' We should start calling it 'processed peace,' which, like processed cheese, does little to contribute to the health of those who swallow it."

It is in America's best interest to support and stand with Israel during this time of crisis. Israel needs all the friends it can get. It is unfairly maligned in the media, held to impossible standards by nations who do hold themselves to such standards, and is generally treated with contempt by a hypocritical, propaganda-fed, international community.

[Guest shiloh357]

The United States always has the right to put her interests above those of any other sovereign nation including Israel.

Yes, but that does not justify the United States strong arming Israel into sacrificing its interests in order to appease the Arabs who seek Israel's destruction.

Are you saying Israel has never betrayed the security interests of the U.S.?

No, because that was not your question. You asked if Israel puts our national ahead of theirs. The answer is that they sometimes do. The road map that that the US shoved down Israel's throat is one example. The disengagement from Gaza last year is another example. Israel has often restrained from retaliating against terrorist attacks at the behest of the US. Our nation has often expected Israel to make conceessions for peace that seriously jeopardize its security. Oslo is a good example of that.

The Jews have returned to Israel in unbelief - was this secular return ever predicted in Scripture?

Yes, Ezekiel 36, 37, and Zechariah 12.

You didn