Is faith enough to save us from Hell?

[antz]

Leviticus 26:14

[ Punishment for Disobedience ] " 'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands,

Deuteronomy 28:15

[ Curses for Disobedience ] However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

Jeremiah 43:7

So they entered Egypt in disobedience to the LORD and went as far as Tahpanhes.

Hebrews 4:6

It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in , because of their disobedience.

Hebrews 4:11

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

It is a direct implication that every act of disobedience is an act of the will.

You know this is out of topic so what i will do is create another topic for this in order to make things in order...

i am sorry but i should have told this from my previous post...

Edited August 19, 2006 by antz

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE(shiloh357 @ Aug 19 2006, 09:18 PM)

No you are the one who has a hard time with the Scriptures. There two things at work here: The blood and the cross. The blood deals with our works, and the cross deals with our nature. The blood cleanses me from "sins" daily. The cross delivered me from "sin" (the power of sin). I was justified and saved the minute I accepted Christ. His righteousness was imputed to me, and as such I passed from death to life. I have been legally declared "right" before God by virtue of the finished work of Christ on the cross.

You know.. from the above post.. you are on the right track... because those that you have said is written in the scriptures... but can't you read it??? after that you have been saved from sins, after that you have been cleansed by the blood, but the next one is not entirely correct because it shouldn't be past tense, it should be present progressive because from the day you receive the salvation from sin you have to walk daily with that cross... read...

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

be careful not to conclude thing very early... you have to consider the whole wisdom of the scriptures... ones you are justified, cleansed, legally declared right by the virtue of the finished work of Christ on the cross... you have to take up your cross DAILY, and follow Him

The problem here lies with your assertion that we are claiming that once a person is saved, they do not have to live in obedience. That is not the position of anyone on this thread. We simply reject your assertion that works are necessary for salvation when the Bible makes it perfectly clear that works play no part in how a person gets saved, or how salvation is kept. We are not holding on to Jesus. It is Jesus who is holding on to us. We are not "keeping ourselves saved." We do not have the ability to bring our own salvation, so it only follows that we do not have the power to sustain it. Jesus is both the Author and Finisher of our faith. Salvation begins and ends with Jesus and Jesus alone. He is the Savior. We are not "co-saviors" with Jesus.

Of course, we believe in "taking up the Cross." But taking up the Cross daily and following Jesus is the duty of Christians, not a pre-requisite for those still trying to get saved. You have to violate hermeneutics (laws of literary analysis) to arrive at positions you do, from the passages you cite.

QUOTE

It is not "sins" that send a person to hell. It is the "sin" he is born into, that determines that.

Where did you get that belief???

From the 1st eight chapters of Romans. Romans 1:1-5:11 deal with "sins." Those are things we do. Romans 5:12 - 8:39 deals with "sin" or the power of sin. Paul calls it the law of sin and death in chapter 8. We are all born under the power of sin. It is not the things we do that determine if we go to heaven or hell. Good works will not save us and evil works do not send us to hell. We are sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners. It is the condition of our heart that determines whether we go to heaven or hell. It is only by trusting in the finished work of Christ on the cross that we are justified and forgiven.

You see you are trying to work your way into righteousness. You are trying create righteousness by good deeds, and that is impossible. Your good deeds are worthless because they are tainted with sin. Your most noble work is but filthy rags before the Lord.

Justification before God requires that you take Christ's righteousness. Let me illustrate it this way: Let's say I am a teacher in a class and you are my student. There is only one test for the term, and there are 100 questions. The Test is Pass/Fail. If you miss ONE question, you fail the test. However, I have an offer. I have already taken the test, and since I already knew the answers, I passed the test 100%. Now, you have a choice... You can either take the test yourself and take your chances, OR I will give you my score of 100% and you pass the test and pass the course.

It is the same with salvation. The only person who ever lived up to the Father's standard, was Jesus. No one before or since, has ever lived a sinless life. Jesus lived sinlessly before the Father and man. He passed the "test" and now He offers you His "score." Jesus' righteousness is offered to you, and if you will accept it, you will be declared as righteous as if Adam never sinned, as if it had been YOU that lived sinlessly before the Father. Your past is wiped clean, and God remembers it, no more. You are set free from the Law of sin and death, and are now free to walk in the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. All of that just for placing your faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.

Once saved you are now free to live righteously and pleasing before the Father. Obedience is not an attempt to win God' favor; rather, it is simply a natural product of who you are in Christ. You are a new creation with a new heart and a new set of desires to please and Glorify God.

As long as you are still working to get saved, your focus is not Jesus but on yourself. Your motives are ungodly and selfish because they rob God of the glory of salvation. Instead of God receiving the credit, you are trying share the credit, and that will not work. He will be Lord of all, or not Lord at all. He is not going to share His Glory with you. Your works are trash in His sight. The only works that save, are the works that Jesus did on the cross. If you are trusting in your good deeds to ensure your salvation, you are sliding down a greased pole straight into hell. You need to let go and stop playing yourself for a fool. You need to believe the Gospel, and not these false teachings you are spreading.

[st. Worm]

If faith is truly a gift then it is given prior to our "surrender and acceptance". Perhaps I am wrong but your comment seems to imply that the gift of faith is a gift only given after we make a decision to accept it. That is not really grace but earned faith.

sw

If you refused according to God...

Proverbs 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;...

Proverbs 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: 29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Another ingredient of SALVATION from hell... Fear of God

I don't see the relevence of those passages pursuant to my post.

sw

OK... here is how it is relevant to your post...

You said...

Perhaps I am wrong but your comment seems to imply that the gift of faith is a gift only given after we make a decision to accept it.

My answer is Yes. That is not an implication but a definite YES, after you make the decission to accept the gift then it will be given... what is my basis of this answer??? the verses that i just posted.. IF you refused according to God... (see previous post) Proverbs 1:24, 27-29

Another ingredient of SALVATION from hell... Fear of God (not just Faith)

That's not much of a gift if I have to earn it by making the decision before I receive it. You aren't really grasping what grace really means and why faith is truly a gift and not a decision. Decision theology is not biblical.

sw

[LadyRaven]

Let's twist that scripture and hear that heresy bubba....

Let me post also an article that I received just a while ago... It pointed out strong points as a proof that Faith is not enough to save us from Hell.

====================

Can Faith Alone Save Us From Hell?

One dangerous belief being preached by some Born Again groups in our times is that you do not need to do good works to be saved. They say that all you need is faith alone to be saved from Hell. This is a very dangerous misinterpretation of the Holy Scriptures. Preaching that good works are not needed to be saved may cause others to do ungodly things! Let us prove this Biblically.

What is their basis for their claim that good works are not needed for salvation?

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

By these verses, they concluded that the salavation referred to above is already the salvation from hell. Was there any "hell" mentioned in the verse? It is only their own conclusion! Please notice, "ye are saved". It was already a past salvation experienced by the Ephesians and not a future salvation! Yes, there is a future salvation that you also needed to be saved from! The question is, from where the Ephesians were saved from? Is it alreadt from hell as they claim? Let us go up to verse 1 and read the answer:

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Did you see that? The salvation experienced by the Ephesians is salvation from sins. It is not yet the salvation from hell. Let us further prove this in verse 5:

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we are dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

It is very clear that the salvation experienced by Ephesians is salvation from sins and not yet from Hell. The entire salvation is a process. In order for you to do good works to be saved from hell, God needs to save you first from sins! For how can you do good works when you are under the control of sin!

Let us prove that by just completing the verses that they misinterpreted!

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Many people cannot do good works because they can't stop themselves from sinning! That is why, we need God's grace through faith to save us from sins! After being saved from sins, we can now do the good works that God really intended for us to do. By doing good works, we can be sure for the upcoming salvation, the salvation from hell.

Is there any proof that we need to work out for our salvation after being saved from sins?

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence oly, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

The Philippians already attained salvation from sins when they accepted the gospel. But still, St. Paul is reminding them to continually obey God even in his absence, to work out their own salvation! After being saved from sins, there is another salvation they need to overcome and they can only attain it by working out for it with trembling and fear! We need good works to attain eternal life! Let us prove that in Romans 2:7-8

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life (Romans 2:8) But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath.

We need patient continuance in doing what is well or good to attain eternal life. Those who are opposed to this and will abide in unrighteousness, indignation and wrath according to the bible. That is why, true Christians need to continually do good works until the end to be saved, not from sins anymore but from eternal punishment in hell. Let us listen to what Christ had said:

Matthew 24:12-13 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

"Shall be saved" ... It is a future salvation that is being mentioned by Christ. Only after enduring iniquities by continually doing good works, by then ye shall be saved from the wrath that is to come.

If we truly believe in Christ, we must accept and obey all his words. We need to do all the good things he has preached. That is the very proof that we believe in Him by continually following his commandments until the end. By so doing, we shall be truly saved ..

[antz]

That's not much of a gift if I have to earn it by making the decision before I receive it. You aren't really grasping what grace really means and why faith is truly a gift and not a decision. Decision theology is not biblical.

sw

that is just your own conclusion... the Bible clearly state that if you will refuse God then He will... (let's just read it)

Proverbs 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;...

did you read that... he called... ye refused...

now what will happen after you refused....

Proverbs 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: 29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

read it... don't incorporate your own interpretation because Bible interpret itself... ONLY GOD CAN INTERPRET HIS WORDS... all you have to do is read... WHY??? BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY WRITTEN!!!

[LadyGunivere]

wow this thread is felt very passionately about to say the least....Many interpretations...

[Guest shiloh357]

What is their basis for their claim that good works are not needed for salvation?

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

By these verses, they concluded that the salavation referred to above is already the salvation from hell. Was there any "hell" mentioned in the verse? It is only their own conclusion! Please notice, "ye are saved". It was already a past salvation experienced by the Ephesians and not a future salvation! Yes, there is a future salvation that you also needed to be saved from! The question is, from where the Ephesians were saved from? Is it alreadt from hell as they claim? Let us go up to verse 1 and read the answer:

This shows a very real problem with the author's understanding of salvation, especially the word sozo from the Greek. Sozo is a word that means two things at once. It is salvation from sin AND salvation into the Kingdom of God. When we are saved two things happen we are taken out of one kingdom and then placed into another. We immediately separated (sanctified) from sin and unto the Lord, the moment we are saved. Peter puts it another way:

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

(1 Peter 2:9)

According to Paul, and this is important:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

(Romans 6:14)

In this passage, we are told that as believers sin no longer has dominion over us, because we are no longer "under the law, but under grace." "Under the law" is a positional term that denotes our standing with God, as does "under grace." Either a person is "under the law," or they are "under grace." Paul uses contrasting terms like this earlier in this chapter. We are either "in Adam" or "in Christ." We are either "servants of sin," or "servants of righteousness."

So these terms, "in Adam," "servant of sin," and "under the law," are three ways of saying the same thing. These three descriptive terms denote that a person is unsaved, and thus "under the law." It is the same with "in Christ," "servant of righteousness," and "under grace." These three descriptive terms denote that a person has been saved.

When we are saved, we are no longer considered members of Adam's race. We taken out of Adam and placed into Christ. We are taken out of darkness and made light in Christ, Jesus ( Eph. 5:8)

Now as we look down further into the sixth chapter of Romans Paul remarks that:

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(Romans 6:22-23)

We we see here is that we are now free form sin and we have fruit unto holiness (sanctification) and eternal life. Notice that is what we HAVE, not what we are striving to attain. It is a present tense, in the now, possession. We are not waiting for it, working for it, hoping for it, etc. It is what has been given to by faith. Paul goes on to say, that the wages of sin is death (eternal separation from God, i.e. "hell") The wages of "SIN" (the law of sin and death). He is not talking about "sins" or things that we do. He is talking about the spiritual law of sin that each of us is born under. The wages [of the sinful condition of man without Christ] is death (hell). BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. When we are saved, we are given eternal life (John 5:24, John 5:11-13) as a present "today" possession. I have eternal life, and as such I have passed from death to life. I will never be separated from the Lord. I am in His Kingdom.

Hell is a consequence of being in prison under the power of sin. Being saved from sin is not a separate experience from being saved from hell. Hell comes about because of sin. Since we are delivered from sin, we are delivered from hell by default because salvation means we are also placed into the Kingdom of God, and more importantly we are placed in Christ. There is a positional aspect here. We are taken out of Adam and placed in Christ. In theological circles, this is known as "positional justification." We are now positionally IN Christ, seated IN heavenly places. There is no way anyone IN Christ can go to hell. Being saved from sin and into the Kingdom removes the consequence of hell from the equation.

The rest of the article presented by antz is just more of the same attempt to promote a teaching that is simply irreconcilable with the Word of God, and should not be taken seriously.

[ayin jade]

Nice post Shiloh.

[Guest shiloh357]

Here is the true meaning of Sozo...

σώζω

sōzō

sode'-zo

From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos,

[nebula]

I have to admit, it is very discouraging to see people regarding salvation as "salvation from Hell." That is akin to regarding Jesus as nothing more than "fire insurance."

What a way to cheapen the gospel and Jesus' sacrifice!

Is escaping Hell all you care about?

Salvation is about being reconciled to God.

Once you accept this, all this debate over technicalities becomes pointless.