Is all disobedience an act of will?

[billie]

Your idea of salvation and what my idea of salvation is isn't the same. I don't believe in Once Saved Always Saved. If OSAS was correct than what is there to deter a "Saved" Christian from turning away from sin? Remember they are going to heaven anyway. John makes it clear that there is deadly sin. John also makes it clear that one must do more than just pray to get out of deadly sin.

Pax, not to be rude, because I'm very grateful for you answering my questions , but how do you know what my idea of salvation is?

[Floatingaxe]

1 John 5: 16-17 "If you see your brother commit a sin that does not lead to DEATH, you should pray to God, who will give him life.

16-17For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I'm not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is "fatal," leading to eternal death), we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I'm not urging you to pray about that. Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal.

we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal.

This tells me that all sin is life-preventing.

[Pax]

1 John 5: 16-17 "If you see your brother commit a sin that does not lead to DEATH, you should pray to God, who will give him life.

16-17For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I'm not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is "fatal," leading to eternal death), we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I'm not urging you to pray about that. Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal.

we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal.

This tells me that all sin is life-preventing.

Correct all sin is bad and can be life-preventing, but this clearly shows that there is two types of sin. However, the sin not leadly to death will eventually lead to a deadly sin if one does get away from that sin.

[Pax]

Your idea of salvation and what my idea of salvation is isn't the same. I don't believe in Once Saved Always Saved. If OSAS was correct than what is there to deter a "Saved" Christian from turning away from sin? Remember they are going to heaven anyway. John makes it clear that there is deadly sin. John also makes it clear that one must do more than just pray to get out of deadly sin.

Pax, not to be rude, because I'm very grateful for you answering my questions , but how do you know what my idea of salvation is?

Sorry, I didn't mean to label you. I'm getting ahead of the game.

[billie]

Sorry, I didn't mean to label you. I'm getting ahead of the game.

It's OK, Pax. You're trying to talk to 3 different people at once. That must be pretty confusing.

[antz]

1 John 5: 16-17 "If you see your brother commit a sin that does not lead to DEATH, you should pray to God, who will give him life.

16-17For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I'm not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is "fatal," leading to eternal death), we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I'm not urging you to pray about that. Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal.

we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal.

This tells me that all sin is life-preventing.

Correct all sin is bad and can be life-preventing, but this clearly shows that there is two types of sin. However, the sin not leadly to death will eventually lead to a deadly sin if one does get away from that sin.

Let us put our conversation in verses...

I agree with pax that there are two type of sin and that make the OSAS belief not valid for me... as stated in the verse, always first remember who is speaking and to whom the words are addressed... as you can see...

I John 5:16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray that God would give him life. This applies to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not telling you to pray about that.

John is writing to his fellow Christians... that if they see their brother committing non deadly sin, he should pray... but not the the deadly sin...

now, sometimes the very reason we are being misguided is because you put your interpretation on the passages that you are reading... why not let the Bible decide... which is deadly and which is not deadly... ask the Bible...

Now let us ask the Bible... what is deadly sin???

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

You see, if we sin willfully AFTER...

this is the very reason why i don't agree that all disobedience are an act of will because disobedience is sin and doing it willfully will fall into a deadly sin...

Now... looking back to the verse... who is capable of committing deadly sins??? ]after that we have received the knowledge of the truth...

those who have received the knowledge of truth...

[ayin jade]

So you have never wilfully sinned since you received the "truth"? You are sinless?

[LadyGunivere]

I agree Jade very excellent explanation

[ayin jade]

Sorry Lady, Im not following.

[Pax]

1 John 5: 16-17 "If you see your brother commit a sin that does not lead to DEATH, you should pray to God, who will give him life.

16-17For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I'm not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is "fatal," leading to eternal death), we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I'm not urging you to pray about that. Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal.

we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal.

This tells me that all sin is life-preventing.

Correct all sin is bad and can be life-preventing, but this clearly shows that there is two types of sin. However, the sin not leadly to death will eventually lead to a deadly sin if one does get away from that sin.

Let us put our conversation in verses...

I agree with pax that there are two type of sin and that make the OSAS belief not valid for me... as stated in the verse, always first remember who is speaking and to whom the words are addressed... as you can see...

I John 5:16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray that God would give him life. This applies to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not telling you to pray about that.

John is writing to his fellow Christians... that if they see their brother committing non deadly sin, he should pray... but not the the deadly sin...

now, sometimes the very reason we are being misguided is because you put your interpretation on the passages that you are reading... why not let the Bible decide... which is deadly and which is not deadly... ask the Bible...

Now let us ask the Bible... what is deadly sin???

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

You see, if we sin willfully AFTER...

this is the very reason why i don't agree that all disobedience are an act of will because disobedience is sin and doing it willfully will fall into a deadly sin...

Now... looking back to the verse... who is capable of committing deadly sins??? ]after that we have received the knowledge of the truth...

those who have received the knowledge of truth...

There are more references in the Bible that disprove OSAS besides 1 John 5: 16-17. Salvation is a lifeolng process, not a once in time process. And, yes we can lose our salvation. If you believe in OSAS, good luck trying to convience your teenage daughter or son not to have pre-marital sex. If they can't lose their salvation, why not have sex. OSAS is a very dangerous concept with no deterance to sin.