mortal or immortal soul ?

[TomPJr]

Man you guys have me completely lost as where it is you are trying to go with this discussion...first your preaching that the soul will die...poof!...gone for all eternity, having no consciousness of either torment or glory...but now your jumping back into a belief in immortality of the soul?.... you guys have to be Jehovah's...the only other time I have witnessed this type of confusion in ones beliefs is when encoutering the JW's.

Peace

CJ

Hi CJ,

The problem is that the word 'soul' in the bible does not mean the essence of a person, nor the conscious mind.

It means:

Nephesh - Psyche - Soul

The important passage in Genesis 2:7 sets the scene for this 'window - word' into the nature of personhood. An individual becomes a 'nephesh' from the infusion of divine breath into moulded dust. In physical terms 'nephesh' means, 'neck', 'throat', 'gullet' and came to mean 'life', that 'vital motion' which distinguishes a living being from a corpse.

'Nephesh' has such a variety of senses that we must make a careful definition in each particular case. Meanings overlap and are used side by side. It is easy to end up with contradictory statements about 'nephesh'. Here are some of the central statements about 'nephesh':-

[TomPJr]

I haven't read the entire thread, so this may already be in it, but what about where it says that God ONLY has mortality, and that we mortals will PUT ON immortality? Sorry, I don't remember where the texts are.

In any case, God is the God of the Living not the Dead.

I'm just re-hashing this topic for those who were involved in the thread that EricH closed called The State of The Dead. There is no difference between this thread and the one EricH closed.

The Bible does not teach a doctrine of Anihilationism it teaches a doctrine of immortality.

Peace & Good Luck

CJ

The bible teaches that we seek for immortality. We don't have it yet. We do not put on immortality until Jesus returns and resurects the righteous. The dead who are asleep in the ground will wake with their immortal bodies, and the alive in Christ at that time will be transformed.

[Floatingaxe]

TomPJr:

All I know is that I will live forever with Jesus, by virtue of the fact that I belong to Him. So, by whatever definition you have concocted, I have immortality. It is a promise, and one I can grasp onto now! I mean--we can't die first and then get it! That would be moronic. We just do not die, spiritually.

[kat8585]

The thief on the cross who was crucified with Jesus asked Jesus to remember him when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus, as He hung on the cross replied:

Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise Luke's Gospel23:42,43

Edited December 28, 2006 by kat8585

[Openly Curious]

The thief on the cross who was crucified with Jesus asked Jesus to remember him when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus, as He hung on the cross replied:

Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise Luke's Gospel23:42,43

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

[TomPJr]

TomPJr:

Alll I know is that I will live forever with Jesus, by virtue of the fact that I belong to Him. so, by whatever definition you have concocted, I have immortality. It is a promise, and one I can grasp onto now! I mean--we can't die first and then get it! That would be moronic. We just do not die, spiritually.

FloatinAxe,

I respect your opinion, because it makes sense as far as the knowledge that you have. Like I've said before, I used to believe the way you do.

Did you read what Kat8585 wrote?

I need to add a little to that.... Do you realize that the original texts didn't use commas, periods, etc...

They were added later.

The placement of the comma makes all the difference.

Verily I say unto you, today you will be with me in paradise or,

Verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise

You can assume that the translators put it in the right spot, but after careful study with the rest of the bible, one will see the error.

like Kat said, Jesus was not in paradise that day. It was two days later.

[HAZARD]

How about the truth ?

Where is immortal soul mentioned in the Bible ?

I have listed several scriptures that man is mortal and the soul can and does die. Jesus himself said so Mat.10 v 28. Since it is an important issue relevant to our salvation how come people are so disinterested and blindly continue to believe a lie ?

______________________________________

Here are all the Scriptures relating to this doctrin.

The body of any being is the outward form or house in which his soul and spirit dwell (Gen. 2:7, 19; John 5:28-29; Matt. 27:52; 1 Cor. 15:34-58; Jas. 2:26; 1 Thess. 5:23; Heb. 10:5-10).

There are spiritual anad natural bodies, or heavenly and earthly bodies; and both kinds are real (1 Cor. 15:40-49).

The soul is the invisible part of all living beings, that feels, the seat of his affections, emotions, passions, and desires, and which gives him self-consciousness and makes him a sentient being (Lev. 23:43; 1 Sam. 22:2; 30:6; 2 Sam. 13:39; 2 Kings 4:27; 23:3; Ps. 107:5, 9, 18, 26; Mark 12:33; Matt. 26:38; John 12:27; Heb. 10:38; Heb. 4:12).

The spirit is that invisible thing part of all living beings that knows. The seat of his intellect, mind, and will, and that which gives him self-determination and makes him a free moral agent and a rational being (1 Cor. 2:11; Matt. 26:41; Exodus 35:21; Job 38:8, 18; Prov. 20:27; Phil. 1:27; Heb. 4:12; Jas. 2:26; 1 Thess. 5:23).

The Bible teaches that unsaved men do not have God's spirit in them (Romans 8:9-16; 1 Cor. 12:13; 2 Cor. 1:22; 6:16-18; Gal. 3:2-5; 4:6; Eph. 1:13; 2 Tim. 1:7; 1 John 4:4-6); that God's spirit is not recieved until the new birth (John 3:1-5; 14:17; Rom. 8:9-16); that there is a difference between the natural spirit of man and beasts (Eccl. 3:21); that there is a difference between breath and spirit (Job 34:15; Ps. 19:7; Luke 12:19; 1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 7:1); and that each creature has a separate spirit which is not a part of God (Numbers 16:22; 27:17; Eccl. 3:21; Ezek. 21:7; Dan. 2:1-3; Mal. 2:15-16; Prov. 16:2; 1 Cor. 2;10-12; 14:32; Heb. 12:9, 23; 1 Thess. 5:23).

Try and substitute breath for soul and spirit in all the above passages and see how ridiculous and impossible such meanings are.

Jesus actually descended into hell while His body was in the tomb. He died just before sunset on THAT DAY, on which He said "today' shalt thou be with me in paradise." In Matt. 12:40; Eph. 4:7-11 we read that Christ went "in the heart of the Earth" and "into the lower parts of the Earth" during the time His body was in the tomb. This is what David, by the Holy Spirit meant in Paslms 16:10; Acts 2;25-27, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in Hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption" in the grave. During His time in Hell Christ preached to the spirits in prison (1 Pet. 3;19). The thief went in to Paradise (Luke 16:19-31; 23:43), where Lazarus was and those who were held there against their will untill Christ's death and resurrection. We have pictured here comfort, water etc, where the rich man saw Lazarus. This was the abode of the righteous souls and spirits after leaving their bodies at physical death. All the righteous went to this place and were held captive by the devil against their wills (Heb. 2;14-15; Eph. 4:7-11). The devil had the power of death and of the underworld before Christ conquered him (Col. 2;14-17; Heb. 2;14-15; Rev. 1;18). It was into this place that the penitent thief and Christ went the day they died (Luke 23:43). Christ captured all these righteous sould that were in paradise and took them to Heaven when He ascended on high (Eph. 4:7-11). Christ now has the keys of Hell and death (Rev. 1:18).

The greatest proof of immortality is found in the resurrection of Jesus Christ and His life after death, a work accomplished by His own power. This demonstrated that Jesus was still alive after His body had died for he resurrected His own body (John 2:19-, 21; 10:17, 18). By coming back from the dead, He proved that death was not annihilation. His resurrection and immortality is a guarantee of the resurrection amd immortality of all men (1 Cor. 15:1-8; Phil. 1:21-23; John 11:23-27; 12 :24; 14:19). many saints were resurrected from the dead after the resurrection of Christ (Matt. 27:52-53).

Edited December 28, 2006 by HAZARD

[TomPJr]

The thief on the cross who was crucified with Jesus asked Jesus to remember him when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus, as He hung on the cross replied:

Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise Luke's Gospel23:42,43

But Jesus Himself wasn't in Paradise that day, so this text doesn't prove immortality. Jesus was saying that He was telling him that day, not that he would be there that day. If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

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yes, Jesus was in paradise with the thief on the cross that very day as paradise was Abraham's bossom as it despicts in the gospel of Luke chapter 16 in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

OC

[kat8585]

If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

[TomPJr]

If we already have mortality, why are our decrepit dead bodies raised? Why bother with that? What would be the point?

Well...?

I answered that in my previous post.