Christian Theocracy

[secondeve]

I've come across a few people on Worthy who wish that their country was a Christian theocracy, and would in some cases be prepared to fight to make it one. I would argue that it is impossible to have any kind of theocracy which is not also despotic in some sense, because those who don't believe would be forced to live under a Biblical moral law to which, if they objected, they would have no recourse to alter or protest, unlike in a democracy.

When discussions crop up here about the Middle East and Islam, a common argument used against those who are percieved to have any kind of sympathy whatsoever for the Palestinians is, 'How would you like to live under shar'ia law? How would that affect your family, your values, your daughters in particular; how would that affect your rights?' But at the same time, the proponents of this defence would seemingly have no problem with enforcing the Biblically equivalent laws pertaining to marriage, sexuality, lifestyle and freedom of speech on those who believe differently. So the objection to the idea of an Islamic or non-Christian theocracy cannot be founded on the idea that such a system is undemocratic or unjust, because that would be hypocriticl: it must be exclusively because Islam is not Christianity, and is therefore wrong (any other reasonable objections to Islamic practises aside).

In the Middle East at the moment, a kind of experiment with a democratic theocracy is being conducted - but personally, I don't believe that such a thing can work in the long term, because a key tenent of democracy is freedom of religion and freedom from religion; and if this is not the case at the level of the constitution, then the system is fundamentally flawed from the get-go. To me, it would seem that the only way a theocracy in any sense of the world could ever be implemented was by a kind of despotism against any non-believing citizens, be it in the form of forced conformity/assimilation, deportation, imprisonment or military/police force.

From what I've learned of Christianity, the question of free will - why God allows his creation to effectively reject salvation and choose hell - is because he wants human beings to be able to think and choose for themselves. In principle, this idea seems incopatable with the idea of a theocracy, because such an institution could not help but forcibly and effectively deny that choice to certain individuals. If we are forced to choose, then there is no choice. And in fact, the Bible seems to recognise that a theocracy might not be the ideal situtation - why else are Christians commanded to obey the laws of man at all, rather than endeavouring to move away, live in or create a purely Christian society?

So, the purpose of this thread is to ask whether or not you, as Christians, would prefer to live in a Christian theocracy or not and why; and any problems you might percieve with such a system, assuming for a moment that implementation in your lifetimes through whatever means - be they violent or non-violent - was possible.

[mike2]

What you are saying at the start of your post, oh so describes the hypocracy in any religion. I often wonder if the people talking as you have related are really Christians or are they just having a weak moment.

The world is changing, changing in ways it has never been subjected to before, Islamic extremist and Islamic intolerances are a very clear, present day indication, of how ALL religions are going to become in the near future. It is getting worse and worse with some Christians as you have pointed out.

Obviously a theocracy, one that is mandated, is really a false religion, ...you cant "force" a belief on anyone.

How many times have you heard "why doesnt God show Himself and then we'll know who He is" ... well some will see it happen in Jesus' second coming.

There will actually be a time when Christ will rule for 1,000 years.

Everyone will know who He is.

No one will be able to deny Him.

Then Satan will be freed into the world again, to push his influence on man once again.

This influence will be pushed on people that undeniably know Christ, and even so, some will fall away.

When the people are forced into a religion, that religion will become subject to hate and resentment, we dont have to be physcologists to figure that one out.

I think it is Gods intention to show that,...... after Christs reign (on this earth) ---

I believe He is going to give us every opportunity possible, so man cannot make excuses for denying Him.

And I dare say, watch France and England as they move towards removing religious differences, and see what happens.

The only way a theocratic(?) religion will work is if everyone believes, ...not chooses...

guess who spends eternity with God.

One other point, I dont know how you view this, but, a true Christian, lives to a standard much higher than any law man has to live by. The reality is, laws are there as a bottom line for man to live by, and todays laws are becoming so convoluted and grey, that a Christian should consider their behaviour questionable if they are living their lives within those areas.

I am not looking for a discusion on it, but some good examples would be pornography, having an affair on your spouse, smoking pot, all becoming the accepted norm in society today.

You have come up with a lot of things to talk about.

I think this is going to be an interesting thread

I thank God you have brought up this topic.

[MorningGlory]

So, the purpose of this thread is to ask whether or not you, as Christians, would prefer to live in a Christian theocracy or not and why; and any problems you might percieve with such a system, assuming for a moment that implementation in your lifetimes through whatever means - be they violent or non-violent - was possible.

No theocracy has ever succeeded and none ever will. Faith and morality are individual decisions and cannot be legislated. Even though I, personally, want to live in a Christian country I don't want anyone to be forced to comply. Can you imagine the United States being a society like Saudi Arabia? You either have to be Muslim or else. It's a stifling environment. I suppose this is why Muslim countries are ALL backward and have stagnated since the inception of Islam in the seventh century.

[sweetycakes]

I partly agree and partly disagree.

I would like to see my country, England, become solely a Christian nation. Now, I don't believe you can force Christian belief on anyone....it is a work of the Holy Spirit.

But I would like to see ALL mosques, hindu temples, TM centres and the like BANNED and demolished, as they were in ancient Israel.......that way, people wouldn't be so tempted to go into these religions.

It was when Israel compromised and allowed pagan worship in their land, that they went downhill.

Having only the Christian gospel taught is the best way to give them the best possible chance, in my opinion.

[Akabu]

Teh only government God has ever specificly approved is a theocracy. People, including christians, can get mad at me for saying this, but actually in ancient Israel they were supposed to do just what second eve asked about: Deport or even execute unbelievers, particularly homosexuals, idolators, occultists(of all forms), and even harlots. Fact is, that is going to be the eternal punishement on judgment day too: eternal death, i.e. "exile" from the presense of God and from his new heaven and new earth. If people had actually obeyed and enforced the law of God in the physical, temporal world, it might be that a lot less people would be spending eternity in the lake of fire.

But the Lord is not done. He will also set up a totalitarian theocracy, in which God himself will be king on earth, during the millenium as well, and every vessel will say "holiness unto the Lord", and the name of Jesus will be on everyone's lips in praise, and the scripture says that he will "rule the nations with a rod of iron", and it also says that he will curse nations that do not go up to worship him.

yes, I am a promoter of a Christian Theocracy, praise Jesus. Here and now if possible, but I will praise him when he comes back personally too. Throw away the Bill of Rights and lets have the ten commandments and the Beattitudes instead. Throw away the pledge of allegiance to the flag of america, and lets all pledge allegiance to the Lamb!

AMEN BROTHER!!

During the milenium you will bow your knee to Him. Each person born during the milenium will have 100 years to decide to follow Him or not. Those who dont, plain and simply, will be called accursed and die. It will be a government about and for God. Totally and without exception!

Sounds like a theocracy to me. However, the benifits of this are more glorious than can be imagined!

The problem with theocracies today is that they are run by man. Though they may pay lip service to God, or whatever animal they choose to worship ( i say this tongue in cheek) it is still run by man, hence subject to sin from within. Show me ANY government run by man and I will show you a government riddled with sin, falsehoods, lies and deciet.

[Copper Scroll]

Teh only government God has ever specificly approved is a theocracy. People, including christians, can get mad at me for saying this, but actually in ancient Israel they were supposed to do just what second eve asked about: Deport or even execute unbelievers, particularly homosexuals, idolators, occultists(of all forms), and even harlots. Fact is, that is going to be the eternal punishement on judgment day too: eternal death, i.e. "exile" from the presense of God and from his new heaven and new earth. If people had actually obeyed and enforced the law of God in the physical, temporal world, it might be that a lot less people would be spending eternity in the lake of fire.

Wait a minute. Obedience to a law won't save anyone. Belief in Jesus will... and as another poster here noted, you can't force people to believe in Jesus. It is a personal choice a person has to make for him/herself. Trying to force one to believe may have the effect of actually pushing one away.

In the Bible, theocracy ultimately failed.

[Leonard]

Jesus told the Apostles that the Holy Ghost would 'lead you (plural in the Greek text) into all truth....'

So it seems to me that the best possible form of human government (if you believe Jesus, anyway!) would be to have a 'super-legislature' composed of ALL Bishops in Apostolic Succession, the Eastern and Western both. These worthies are promised by God that when they are together in Ecumenical Council, they will get everything right.

At least I don't see how we could do any WORSE than we are right now. Bill Buckley has famously said that he would prefer to be governed by the first 535 names in any major city's phone book, than by the guys we've elected to the Senate and House...............

[Smalcald]

Well as Christians we have had our go at a theocracy, the Holy Roman Empire. Mass was mandated by law, heretical believers were persecuted, jailed and sometimes killed. It did not work then and it won't work now.

There will be in the End, one ruler, and that is Christ and His very Being and essence will rule all existence in a very direct way. In reality He rules now, but is waiting for all of us to come to our senses one by one, individually choosing to come under His authority. A government cannot make that happen; our God is a God of individual souls, not governments. One human soul is worth more than the entire US government. A soul is eternal, all human governments end, are in the end just noise.

1 Why do the nations conspire [a]

and the peoples plot in vain?

2 The kings of the earth take their stand

and the rulers gather together

against the LORD

and against his Anointed One.

3 "Let us break their chains," they say,

"and throw off their fetters."

4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;

the Lord scoffs at them.

5 Then he rebukes them in his anger

and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,

6 "I have installed my King [c]

on Zion, my holy hill."

7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :

He said to me, "You are my Son [d] ;

today I have become your Father. [e]

8 Ask of me,

and I will make the nations your inheritance,

the ends of the earth your possession.

9 You will rule them with an iron scepter [f] ;

you will dash them to pieces like pottery."

10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;

be warned, you rulers of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD with fear

and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry

and you be destroyed in your way,

for his wrath can flare up in a moment.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

[Gerioke]

I would like to live in a country were the government is incorruptible.

Fat chance of that til Jesus' return. The holy war is within ourselves.

[Joshua-777]

Jesus isn't back yet. There is a difference between forming a theocracy led by Jesus personally and forming a theocracy in his name

there is a big difference, When he comes back, and a new kingdom and created it will be amazing, but we wouldn't have sin, it wouldnt even be a temptation. Christian theocracy actualy has happened before, catholism, with king james, He wanted to rule a people who where christian, but alot of turned into couruption, and based on mans opinion in that time, Christians where getting murdered, and it turned out contrary to what God wanted. I feel that ya More christian theocracy would be a little better, yet I also see how it could become a bad thing, I dont believe that would ever work, until Jesus comes back.