Mark of the Beast

[Joshua-777]

Rev 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

I believe the computer chip is close and leading to the mark, if everyones money was connected, how much easier would it be to take the mark if one had control over it? The vera chip comming out I do believe is close to the mark, but the mark it's self will be a symbol of worship.

[stevehut]

I think it is clear from these and other indications, that the city is the Vatican, and the beast is papal succession.

Only one problem with this theory:

The Bible speaks of the Beast as something (or someone) who already exists at the time of the writing.

In the first century, there was no such thing as a pope or a vatican. And the church was not yet corrupted by Roman influence, as you've described.

Steve

[stevehut]

1- does the teaching of the RCC, and other denominations for that matter, contain false teaching along with the true.

2- Nevertheless, many people in the RCC are genuine Christians, and serve Jesus Christ,

1- Ah, the Catholics are the only ones that teach false doctrines? Oh, I dunno, I think I can name a few others.

2- Then why would they want to be affiliated with such a church?

Steve

[sweetycakes]

I think it is clear from these and other indications, that the city is the Vatican, and the beast is papal succession.

Only one problem with this theory:

The Bible speaks of the Beast as something (or someone) who already exists at the time of the writing.

In the first century, there was no such thing as a pope or a vatican. And the church was not yet corrupted by Roman influence, as you've described.

Steve

Why do you say that?

Wasn't the revelation a prophecy foretelling the future?

[stevehut]

Wasn't the revelation a prophecy foretelling the future?

Of course it was.

Future events, but (in regard to the Beast, anyway) in conmnection with a Beast that already existed.

The first century had no popes, vaticans, or computers.

Steve

[AnExample]

I know there will be a few different ideas on what the "mark of the beast" actually is, and probably there have been discussions on this subject in this forum before.

However, I would like to see what others think, and put forward a few ideas of my own.

OK, so we can't all be right, but perhaps if we keep in mind the things that are said, we may more easily recognize exactly what the "mark" is when it comes to pass ... if it hasn't already!

One of my thoughts is that it will be very subtle ... it could deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Mat 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,

if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which

he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

The Bible begins with deception by a beast (Gen3:1), and it ends the same way. Beneath all the symbolism, it is the same beast:

Rev 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which

deceiveth the whole world

: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

****************************************

I put "of" in your title for you...

Just some ideas, and a few different takes on what all of you have said already. I wanted to comment on a few of the things you all said in different posts, so I will just start again:

Quote, Kenod: " think it is clear from these and other indications, that the city is the Vatican, and the beast is papal succession. Some Popes have been notably good (JP11), but there have also been those who were corrupt and debauched. In the future, I believe such a man will gain control of the papacy".

This is certainly possible, but what about the EU? It seems logical to me that "a continuation of the old Roman empire" is the EU, and the EU fits the bill for everything else. "The city" would be the Hague in the Netherlands. The "Beast", possibly, has yet to emerge and could be an (as yet) up and coming European politician or bureaucrat. The lust for power is already there, in the form of the EU's desire to "control the world" through the international criminal court and the UN. UN headquarters might be in NY, but that doesn't mean that is in any way an American organisation. I believe that "the Harlot" is a one-world-religion (formed using the "popular" - in Europe anyway - idea of being "inclusive" and "blending" several beliefs together, even if they have nothing to do with traditional Christianity, and of course, leaving out the resurrection of Jesus). I know this is assuming a lot, but I can see it happening quite easily and a lot of people being fooled into believing in it.

There has been a couple of comments on the RFID implantable chip and its location. So here's another reason for "the chip" to be in the right hand or the forehead. I will quote from an article by Dr Carl Sanders, one of the inventors of the original microchip: " This microchip is recharged by body temperature changes. Obviously you can't go in and have your battery changed every so often, so the microchip has a recharging circuit that charges based upon the body temperature changes. Over one and a half million dollars was spent finding out that the two places in the body that the temperature changes the most rapidly are in the forehead (primary position), right below the hairline, and the back of the hand (alternative position). "

And about the comment on the "grievous sore" for those who take the MOB. Her's an interesting comment from Carl Sanders again: "There are 250,000 components in the microchip, including a tiny lithium battery. I fought them over using lithium as a battery source but NASA was doing a lot with lithium at that time and it was the going thing. I had talked to a doctor at the Boston Medical Center about what that concentration of lithium in the body could do if the chip broke down. He said that you would get boils or a grievous sore."

Now having said all that, personally I believe that the MOB COULD be the subdermal RFID chip, but it COULD also be a system of "registration" for purposes of "identification", i.e. a passport, driving licence or id card with the using the RFID chip. Without a passport you are effectively confined to your own country (and I'm pretty sure that an "internal passport" will soon be needed to travel within your country or continent) and without a driving licence you would not be able to "attend your market" (i.e. make a living, get money) and several countries are introducing an "id card" with a RFID chip in, without which you would be unable to buy or sell.

As for "idol worship", that could mean the worship of "money" - money being the idol.

Just a few points to ponder anyway. I don't mind if you tear these theories to pieces, that is what discussion is all about.

I am inclined to agree with you regarding the EU. Did you know that they use the whore of babylon as their symbol. Do a Internet search on EU and the whore of Babylon and see what you get. I would give you the website...if I was at home. Very interesting indeed!

[Guest Daave]

Coming out of denominationalism does not necessarily mean we have to stop going to our church, although in some cases it might. It is a matter of coming into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and receiving the Holy Spirit. If you do not, I believe you will take the mark of the beast.

The past couple of years have been very difficult for me in church, the children are being switched to a social message and the preaching is church growth and money, and yes, I think it is the preparation for the mark that you discribe.

Daave

[Pilgrim7]

As Kenod has laid out previously, the 'mark' is a 'sign of allegiance'. It shows whether our allegiance is to the 'living God' or to a 'false God'. It is easier to Identify if we look at what it means to serve God and what He gives to His followers. This would be a 'mark' or 'sign of allegiance' to Him.

The true followers of God have Jesus dwelling in their heart through the indwelling Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is to lead them into all truth, the Word of God. He is to write that truth, word or law in their heart and seal it there. Thus we would know the true followers of Jesus.

Here God tells us what He will do for His people in the New Covenant:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Thus this would be a 'sign' or 'mark' of being a child of God. Now this does not mean just certain rules, but includes all of the Word and Will of God, especially the law of love.

Now as to the 'mark' or 'sign' of the beast, this would show allegiance to the 'Man of Sin' instead of God. This would mean that the law and word of God would be usurped by the law and word of man, particularly the 'Man of Sin'. The law and word of God would be twisted and changed to make accomodations for sin and transgression of God's law and word.

Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

6:16Don't you Know that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Mt 15:8 This people draww near to me with their mouth, and honours me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Here we have a 'sign' or 'identifying mark' of the Beast, a worship system, christian in name, which follows the commandments or laws of man, versus the Laws of God. This worship system is led by 'a man', who all the world wonders after. Yes this worship system does many 'good works', and 'uses' the gospel, but twists it and colors it with the teachings of man which are out of harmony with the Law and Word of God.

The 'Word' and 'Will' of God is the same as the 'Law' of God. God makes no suggestions. His 'Will' is given in His 'Word', and His 'Word' is His 'Law'. If it is His 'will', it is revealed in His 'Word', and then it is His 'Law' of which transgression is sin. Thus the 'Man of Sin' is a 'christian leader' who would seek to change, obscure or deceive as to the Will, Word or Law of God.

God Bless,

Dennis

[MeCajunboy]

One of my thoughts is that it will be very subtle ... it could deceive even the elect, if that were possible.

Mat 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that,

if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Rev 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which

he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.

My thought's on this is that when all of this starts to take place, people will actually believe they are worshipping Christ.

I've harped on this topic many times on these boards and never got much of a response, but I truly believe that image we all know of as Christ has something to do with those "great signs and wonders" mentioned in Matt. 24:24. Those signs are going to be so convincing that it's going to make people stop and think. Unless one is truly rooted in the Word, they are going to follow this thing that calls himself Christ.

2 Thess. 2:4 tells us the "man of sin" not only says he is God but shows that he is.

The stage is being set for this final showdown. Idol worship is running rampant through the church today and no one seems to notice. I don't understand that. And it's not just one or two denominations that are doing this, it's all of them.

Even non-believers can tell you what Christ looks like.

The "mark of the beast" is the number of a man. I haven't quite figured that one out yet, but it'll come.

Good topic.....just hope it doesn't get shut down.

quote:::

(The stage is being set for this final showdown. Idol worship is running rampant through the church today and no one seems to notice. I don't understand that. And it's not just one or two denominations that are doing this, it's all of them.)

Cajunboy:::

I'm with you all the way, and I know what you're referring to as we are led into this "dark" time in our lives by the secular world. I feel it is important that we continue to beat these topics until many others understand and are in agreement , as well. There are even churches being encouraged to house those who wish to continue living in sin, as the homosexual communities; as though we are making acceptions for those that want to go against God's word (which is quite clear to all of us) by allowing others to worship God and live in sin! It's one thing to being denying and fighting your crosses in life. It's quite another to encourage them. One would have to wonder how accountable will those that lead and teach these fallen people, will be and how they will be dealt with?

But don't we tend to make excuses for the youth that are in the colleges and are practicing "safe sex" by performing "oral" sex in lieu of fornication? Do they really realize they are living in sin as badly , if not more? We all try to "rationalize" when we want to find other ways of getting around our sins. Why is this?

[am bassador]

Greetings,

If you really and truly want to know what the mark of the beast is, then visit QNA2Z .com and look for the mark of the beast category. There's even samples of what it will look like. Trust me, it's not the bar code or chips n dip.

ambassador