Nagging Question..........

March 3, 2007

Being clean is only something that God can do. He has made us clean by washing us through the word.

John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies (cleanses) us from all sin.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ephesians 5:25-27 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Someday we will be clothed in clean white linen.

Revelation 19:7-8

7Let us rejoice and be glad

and give him glory!

For the wedding of the Lamb has come,

and his bride has made herself ready.

8Fine linen, bright and clean,

was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)

If there is someone in your church like that, how would you approach the subject with them? What on earth could you possibly say that would not offend? "Sorry I don't mean to offend you but your body odor is offensive." Maybe praying for them, or offering a Christmas gift of sweet smelling soaps etc would be a good idea.

March 3, 2007

Being clean is only something that God can do. He has made us clean by washing us through the word.

Biblicist,

Though you make an excellent point, I don't believe Glory2000 is talking about the kind of clean that only God can give.

She asked about keeping your house and property clean, bathing, wearing clean clothes.

No offense, but washing through the Word pertains to the heart or character of man; not the outward appearance.

shepherdsgrace · March 3, 2007

I dont mean we dont have to clean up but we should keep it clean to give God glory for that. to be honest my house is sort of messy but i keep clean up everyday to give God glory no matter what. if people come to our home unexpect them, I could not say sorry you cant come and tell them i am busy. dont want them to see my house being messy which important house being messy and not let them come or house messy, let them come and ministry them with God's words which is important for that? that is my question about that.

DC

Thanks everyone for the replies. I see a thread running through the answers; it's more important what is in one's heart than what's outside.

Deafcanada, I see your point about a messy house; my own can get that way too. And we don't usually want anyone to visit unless we straighten up. But the situation I'm talking about is not 'messy' but filthy. A toilet that a construction worker wouldn't use, a bathtub that's used for storing nasty, smelly mops instead of for bathing, wads of toilet paper stuck to the ceiling, dried spit in the sink, and used feminine products on the floor. She has no qualms about visitors seeing this or the trash and cigarette butts that litter the yard. Personal hygiene is nonexistent and, when eating in a restaurant ,all one can see is the dirty fingernails, greasy hair, dirty clothes, and then of course there's the ever present aura of old sweat. This Christian has no allergies to soaps or the like either because I've seen her wash her hands after pulling weeds and things like that. Maybe she is more concerned with living a good Christian life, and she does, but is it possible to do that if you are living in filth and garbage? Is sloth a sin? I wouldn't toss this person aside because of this but, frankly, I'm embarrassed to be seen with her or visiting her. Maybe the problem is mine, not hers.

This type of situation is more than your normal "dirty because you have been working in the garden" type thing. ........wads of toilet paper stuck to the ceiling?? Let me assure you that there is something wrong here. Very wrong. Used feminine products on the floor??? This is more than filth. It is lack of caring and lack of modesty. It is also lack of love and caring for other people. I do not blame you for being embarassed to be seen with her. I can assure you that the feet of Jesus may have been dirty. But he never lived this type of filth. His words would have meant nothing coming from this type of filth. I have always assumed that what we are on the outside is coming from the heart..............The heart is speaking a dozen different ways all the day long.

We are clean for many reasons. One of them is love. It is a way of loving people to be presentable and easy to be with. It is social politeness which is covered in I Corinthians 13.

Cleanliness is important for many reasons and one is because we are a society and not an island unto ourselves.

March 3, 2007

Being clean is only something that God can do. He has made us clean by washing us through the word.

Biblicist,

Though you make an excellent point, I don't believe Glory2000 is talking about the kind of clean that only God can give.

She asked about keeping your house and property clean, bathing, wearing clean clothes.

No offense, but washing through the Word pertains to the heart or character of man; not the outward appearance.

I can read perfectly well. My point is that washing with the Blood is more important and that's what we need to concern ourselves with.

If you read the end of my post you'd see that I pointed out there really is no "good" way to approach someone with a problem like that. If we worry about the soul, the outward takes care of itself. That's my take on it. And I believe that the Bible would back me up.

1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Glory2000, likely this person does not see the mess. I've had a cleaning business for many years and I can tell you I've cleaned homes, usually first and only time customers, that lived in complete filth. One family told us NOT to open the refrigerator! I regret to inform you that curosity got the better of me. I hope they got some money from the drug companies for the science experiments they were growing in there.

They really don't see it.

I would suggest offering some help. Pray that the Lord would give you the right words and then talk to her. Maybe she has let it go so long she is overwhelmed with the mess and has no idea where to start.

What you have described is just plain unhealthy. This woman needs help. You may just be the instrument that God wants to use for that purpose. God will always give you strength to do the task which he has called you for.

God bless you for being friends with this person and I pray that you will be a blessing to her as well.

Bib

hupo · March 3, 2007

This has been really bugging me lately......I'm not even sure why but I need to put it to rest.

As a Christian, how important is it to be clean? I mean literally clean; i.e. keeping your house and property clean, bathing, wearing clean clothes. Is it wrong for people to come to church unwashed? I'm not talking about in Bangladesh or somewhere; I mean right here, someone who doesn't HAVE to reek of B.O. or wear stained clothes but apparently either doesn't know better or doesn't care. Is it okay to not care because pride is a sin? Is it offensive to God to be physically offensive to your fellow man? Don't laugh; I am serious! And no, I'm not considering confronting anyone with their lack of hygiene and sqalid living conditions; that's not my place.

I'm going to defer to those of you that are much better versed in scripture than I because I seriously can't figure this one out.

I think you have the answer in your very question: Is it offensive to God to be physically offensive to your fellow man?

I would say that being offensive to your fellow man IS offensive to God. It's not the physical cleanlyness but the attitude or where one's heart is.

Edited March 3, 2007 by hupo

MorningGlory · March 3, 2007

Being clean is only something that God can do. He has made us clean by washing us through the word.

Biblicist,

Though you make an excellent point, I don't believe Glory2000 is talking about the kind of clean that only God can give.

She asked about keeping your house and property clean, bathing, wearing clean clothes.

No offense, but washing through the Word pertains to the heart or character of man; not the outward appearance.

I can read perfectly well. My point is that washing with the Blood is more important and that's what we need to concern ourselves with.

If you read the end of my post you'd see that I pointed out there really is no "good" way to approach someone with a problem like that. If we worry about the soul, the outward takes care of itself. That's my take on it. And I believe that the Bible would back me up.

1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Glory2000, likely this person does not see the mess. I've had a cleaning business for many years and I can tell you I've cleaned homes, usually first and only time customers, that lived in complete filth. One family told us NOT to open the refrigerator! I regret to inform you that curosity got the better of me. I hope they got some money from the drug companies for the science experiments they were growing in there.

They really don't see it.

I would suggest offering some help. Pray that the Lord would give you the right words and then talk to her. Maybe she has let it go so long she is overwhelmed with the mess and has no idea where to start.

What you have described is just plain unhealthy. This woman needs help. You may just be the instrument that God wants to use for that purpose. God will always give you strength to do the task which he has called you for.

God bless you for being friends with this person and I pray that you will be a blessing to her as well.

Bib

I just can't imagine any way that I could take it upon myself to tell this person she needs to clean up without crushing her completely. I admit, in this instance, I am a TOTAL coward. I thought maybe if I could approach the situation as maybe it's not Christian to live that way (and she has a small child living that way too) but then I thought, even if I approached it that way, she is going to be offended and probably devastated. I have considered asking someone else to talk to her (there's that coward thing again!) but I would have to discuss her situation with others and that just seems wrong. Her personal habits and living conditions have prevented friendships, held her down at work, and caused a great deal of mean spirited comments. Even though I was told by a mutual friend that her HR dept. sat her down and explained to her that coworkers had complained about her BO (we live in Texas, you can imagine!) she still seems oblivious. I wish I could put this behind me and move on....but I can't. I feel the need to do something........whatever 'something' is.

MorningGlory · March 3, 2007

I think you have the answer in your very question: Is it offensive to God to be physically offensive to your fellow man?
I would say that being offensive to your fellow man IS offensive to God. It's not the physical cleanlyness but the attitude or where one's heart is.

But her attitude is not what's offensive, Hupo. Do you mean that I should overlook the outer appearance and concentrate instead on this woman's heart?

March 3, 2007

I just can't imagine any way that I could take it upon myself to tell this person she needs to clean up without crushing her completely. I admit, in this instance, I am a TOTAL coward. I thought maybe if I could approach the situation as maybe it's not Christian to live that way (and she has a small child living that way too) but then I thought, even if I approached it that way, she is going to be offended and probably devastated. I have considered asking someone else to talk to her (there's that coward thing again!) but I would have to discuss her situation with others and that just seems wrong. Her personal habits and living conditions have prevented friendships, held her down at work, and caused a great deal of mean spirited comments. Even though I was told by a mutual friend that her HR dept. sat her down and explained to her that coworkers had complained about her BO (we live in Texas, you can imagine!) she still seems oblivious. I wish I could put this behind me and move on....but I can't. I feel the need to do something........whatever 'something' is.

Sweetheart,

God's gonna give you the strength to speak to her and help her in whatever way you can. If He has impressed this upon your heart that you need to do "something" then He will help you do whatever that something is and He will give you the courage to do it!

2 Timothy 1:7 For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.

Sounds like she really needs a friend. Maybe you could start with the mean spirited comments. Maybe ask her if you could pray for her that she is able to endure the unkind things people are saying about her. No one likes to be made fun of, teased or judged for the way they look, act or feel. People can be just so cruel. Tell her that you will stand with her against the comments and help her in any way you can to give them reasons to not say anything at all. Remind her of Romans 12:14-21 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;

if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.

In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Emily~Anne · March 3, 2007

I think this falls in with being good stewards of what God gives us, and also being hospitable. Yet we dont have to go as far as Marnie does with it. ( Marnie! )

Anyone else find unexpected company tends to show up when the house is at it's messiest? *sigh!*

When you have kids your house is not going to look like a model home 24/7. But I still do my best, yet still making sure my family comes first. Which means you will often find little bits of play doh stuck to the rug under our table, the toaster is left out 24/7 so 9 yr old son can make peanut butter toast anytime he wants, and the pillows on our sofa do not stay in pefect order. If one shows up unexpectedly at our house during school hours, (we homeschool) they can expect to see school work and science projects sprawled out all over the table in our family room. I do stay on top of the laundry, vacuum once a day (we have 2 dogs and 1 cat), I make our bed every single day so cat does not lay on the sheets because my husband is allergic, oldest son makes his bed every morning and tidies up his room at bed time, the cat litter box I scoop every morning to prevent her from being naughty and going elsewhere , and my kitchen stays fairly neat and clean as I clean after myself while cooking cause I cant stand to cook in a dirty kitchen. I do love my dishwasher.

We have taught the kids to only have one thing going on at a time, and to clean up after what they were last doing before moving on. Otherwise it would always look like a toy bomb went off in our house. Our oldest does good with this, we struggle a bit with the younger one though and toys end up going on top of the fridge for the rest of the day if he refuses to clean up. Somedays we run out of room on top of the fridge and have to put some of the consficated toys on the dryer. So if you ever happen to come over and wonder why there are toys on top of the fridge, that would be why!

edited to add: I recently discovered the joy of spraying pillowcases with rose linen spray and ironing them. They are nice and crisp and smell so good!

March 3, 2007

I cleaned for one family and the mother told me, "We have a floor you can eat off of. . . there's hotdogs over there, mac-n-cheese over there, some chicken in the corner. . ."