When you are born again

[RCruise]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

The New Covenant is between God and Jesus (both son of man and Son of God). It is a Covenant that can no longer be broken as the Old Covenant could be which was between God and Abraham's seed through Isaac. What we "acquire" as you term it is Jesus and He acquires or "secures" us by His Holy Promise in His Sacrifice through our willing Faith. Man fell from that "Perfect Image of God" with Adam and had NO way back to that Image. The Law could not do it but showed the difference between our fallen state/image and God's Righteous Image. By being (key word "being") conformed to Jesus' Image (an ongoing process and quickening) we are returned to the "Perfected Image where we belong" but not in the flesh but in The Spirit which conquers the Flesh by Christ's Abiding Power alone in our Abiding Faith in Him to do so being Born Again and Cleansed by His Word. And no one is "saved by grace" but by "Grace through Faith" both given freely and authored by Christ Jesus. We "retain" only what we willfully retain in the "old/fallen nature" yet, God will move and chastise to remove that which prevents us from being conformed. That is why many at some point leave altogether or run after other doctrines searing their ears and hearts from the Truth. Sadly.

Hope that clarifies my position.

[tsth]

Ephesians 4:17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. 20 You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. 29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest Greg Davies]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

Provocative question "Phil"!

It all depends on what you mean by "sin nature". Are we talking about the spirit or soul of man? We are triune like God. We are body, soul, and spirit according to I Thes 5:23.

I believe that when we receives Jesus as our saviour, He baptizes us in the Holy Ghost and fire and the old dead sin spirit we inherit from Adam is destroyed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit (John 3:6, Titus 3:5, Ez. 36:26, Rom 8:9b). This new spirit is perfect in every way. It is the incorruptible seed ( I Pet 1:23), the very spirit of Christ (an individual spirit, not the Holy Spirit).

The born again process is not yet complete according to Jesus' description in John 3 to Nicodemas. In addition to being born of the Spirit, we must be born of the water. According to Rom 6:3-13, Col. 2:9-15 and Ez 36:26, we find that the heart or soul of man is circumcised. The old man or the body of the sins of the flesh, the old you is buried in the waters of baptism and we receive a new heart, a new you and we rise to walk in the newness of life. Glory to God!

We are truly born again! A brand new you. But we still have a responsiblity to walk in the newness of life (Rom 6) and to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12). Like any baby, we must learn to walk in the ways of our new Father and learn how to bear His name (Matt. 28:19) in a manner that glorifies Him.

As we take up our cross daily and put to death the flesh (Rom 8:13, Luke 9:23), eventually Christ will be manifest in the flesh, our bodies. And when He returns, we'll be changed. Perfection will have worked its way from the spirit, through the soul, into the body in the same way that death began in the spirit on the day Adam ate and eventually worked its way through the soul into the body and Adam died physically after almost a thousand years, a day to the Lord.

Jesus reverses the process of death beginning with eternal life in the spirit of man just as death began in the spirit of man.

Hallelujah, Greg.

[Openly Curious]

The word says, in 2 Corinthians 5:17--"Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature old things are passed away behold all things are become new."

2 Peter 1:4--"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and preciious promises that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

Galatians 5

When we get born again we gain a new nature which is the divine nature of God and we still have to contend with the nature of sin we were born with through Adam. As these two natures fight against one another each trying to get us to yeild unto it's desire.

Now the word tells us that as Christians now that we are a "new creature" and our old way of life has passed away as we have had a change take place in Christ and because of that all things are now new.

It's important for a Christian to understand that we are totally a whole new "creature" in Christ now we are no longer the creature we were when we were still sinner. The difference between us and sinners is that sinners only have one nature still yet the sinful nature and they are not partaker of God's divine nature as they are still in bondage to sin.

But we as Christian are a whole new breed of creature now than what we used to be no longer the same.

OC

[damo1]

These posts are informative, but they are begging the question. I did not ask if man has a sinful nature, for (in Scripture) that is a given. What I'm looking for is the exchange of spiritual natures that is sometimes taught happens at the moment of conversion when one actually accepts Jesus as their Savior. After conversion, does one possess the sinless nature of God as Adam did (before the fall) or is the old sin nature still there making one "just a sinner saved by grace". You cannot be a "sinner" without the presence of the sin nature but you can sin when possessing the sinless nature of God (as Adam did). So, again, which nature do we have after accepting Jesus, the sin nature we got from Adam or the sinless nature of God.

Please do not look at this thread as a rehash of the "sin nature" arguement. It is asking a completely different question.

damo1

high let me shed some light since i am a felon or inmate who had served time twice in jail

to what you are asking hear once we repent of our sins and nail them to the cross jesus takes that sin and we are given his spirit and we are to walk in that new freedom

yet as humans we wil fall we wil reapeat past mistakes as the enemy loves to remind us of our past even though we have been baptized and have gods holy spirit living with in salvation can not be earnd by good deeds it is by faith and faith alone

new christians today can not understand that jesus gives us a free will we do it his way or we do this our way and when we do it our way we are stepping out of gods will even though we are coverd in his blood and he has forgiven us it is up to us to stay on the path he has us on that means we do not look to the left or to the right or seek or think about the glory days the good old days and dwell on the past

life threw the spirit

Romans 8

1 Therfore there is now no condemnation for those who are in christ jesus

2 becuase threw christ jesus the law of the spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death

3 for what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakend by the sin ful nature god did by sending his son in the likness of sin ful man to be a sin offering and so he condemned sin in a sin ful man

4 in order that righteousness requirements of the law might be fully met in us who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the spirit

5 those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires but those who live in accordance with the spirit have their minds set on what the spirit desiers

that is putting it in one nut shell and so simple to understand when you see it from gods holy spirit who is given to us on the day we repent and get baptized he is hear to help us but as i said we also have a free will we die to that past life and walk in the new life or we hold on to the old life and keep living in the good old glory days going over the same old rubbish which is what god does not want for us

we wear created in his image our father in heaven

god wants a relationship with us yet we seem to mock him by putting up walls so i would say we are set free soon as we cal on christ and repent but to walk in that new freedom one must constantly carry his own cross and stay on the path he has us on

their wear so many times i slipped when i was a babe in christ i held on to the past looked back at the glory days and not once did care what i was doing to the holy spirit i would only say what i wanted people to hear i would do as every one else did i would even take comunion but when i walked out side to the real world and was in my own home i did as i use to when i was living in sin i would smoke pot i would drink beer i would even go to night clubs i would wath pornagraphic videos and i would watch violent videos as well all the while the holy spirit was wanting me to deal with this yet i ignored the holy spirits convictions to the point of even sleeping around with the women i met and then come to church and not say a thing i cal this putting on a mask and saying preach it pastor just to show i was in tune with every one else

are you seeing what i am trying to say hear ? we need to constantly work on the things the spirit brings up to the surface to be dealt with we just can not think once we have been baptized and said the sinners prayer we are free from our sin ful past its a battle as the enemy wil do what ever he can to pull you back as he knows once our eyes to the truth of gods living word have been open he has lost us so no use looking at this from one point and saying i need not do a thing as i am a new person coverd in his blood and forgiven of my past

and daily i ask christ to help me over come what ever the enemy throws at me as we are human jesus knows what we are going threw as he once walked this earth but we need to look at what you said openly and ask some heavy questions as wel and then grab hold of his hands and stay on the path he has us on

no matter how hungry the flesh is or what we are reminded of from what we use to be like we need to nail this and move on other wise you are only fooling your self and playing church instead of being real and honset and dealing with what the holy spirit brings to the surface to be dealt with

i hope i have shed some light on this

peace from damo

[Mutzrein]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

Jesus said "You must be born again." If a person is not born again, then the 'christian' tag is meaningless.

When a person is born again, (and this is not a human decision) they receive the Spirit of Life. Until this time they are dead in trespasses and sin. But now, as far as the consequence of Adam's sin is concerned, they have passed from death to life. They are a 'new' creation.

However, although they they are born of God's Spirit their flesh doesn't just cease to exist. Scripture reinforces many times the distinction between the Spirit and the flesh and the war between them. So how do we overcome the flesh? By walking in the Spirit - in order that the deeds of the flesh may be put to death.

[tsth]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

Jesus said "You must be born again." If a person is not born again, then the 'christian' tag is meaningless.

When a person is born again, (and this is not a human decision) they receive the Spirit of Life. Until this time they are dead in trespasses and sin. But now, as far as the consequence of Adam's sin is concerned, they have passed from death to life. They are a 'new' creation.

However, although they they are born of God's Spirit their flesh doesn't just cease to exist. Scripture reinforces many times the distinction between the Spirit and the flesh and the war between them. So how do we overcome the flesh? By walking in the Spirit - in order that the deeds of the flesh may be put to death.

I agree with you Mutzrein,

I would only add that there is a newness in Christ Jesus, and that we do not walk in the sin "lifestyle" any longer when we are born again. However we will understand the difference between willful and unintentional sins as a babe in Christ. I am also reminded of Jesus' words to the disciples and the symbolism that comes to mind in regard to it and a born-again believer:

John 13:6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, "Lord, are you going to wash my feet?" 7 Jesus replied, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand." 8 "No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me." 9 "Then, Lord," Simon Peter replied, "not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!" 10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you."

Christians should NOT be needing WHOLE BATHS as born-agains!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[dad2seven]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

born again - do you mean justified.

It is the change from the condition in which we are born, that is from original sin to the state of grace through Jesus or saviour. Sin is really removed and our inner being sanctified and renewed.

Thanks

Steve

[Guest Rapturebound]

You can not be a sinner and saved by grace. We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Jesus took our sins. We still have a battle with sin, but that is where renewing your mind comes into play. When you are born again, your spirit becomes alive to God again, but your soul (intellect, mind, will, emotions are still dependant on what it knows from years of worldly experience.

(Romans 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God knows we are going to sin and gave is 1 John 1:9 to repent and get back on track. We really fall into trouble when we practice sin. Make a continuous effort at it. That is when our heart can become hardened or we open the door to satan through disobedience. Don't let the devil lie to you about who you are. I see so many user names on here with words in them like; (lose, dark, darkness, sinner, etc.) As Christians these words should not even be in our vocabulary, let alone be used to describe us.

(Romans 13:4) For it is a servant of God to you for good. For if you practice evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword in vain; for it is a servant of God, a revenger for wrath on him who does evil.

(Ephesians 4:29) Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

(1Corinthians 15:34) Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

(1John 3:7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Peace

Edited October 26, 2007 by Rapturebound

[MeCajunboy]

Does a born-again believer in Jesus (many Christians are not born-again) retain his original sin nature (just a sinner saved by grace) or does he acquire the sinless nature of God, such as Adam had when he was created. What is your position and why do you believe in it.

I'm not sure I'm reading your statement correctly? You first speak of a "born-again believer in Jesus retaining his original sin nature in your question, but you note that (many Christians are not born again.) Can you support that quote with scripture verse? I would think that the two suppor each other. When you're "born-again" you begin to strive to be "Christ-like.) To be "Christ-like) is to stive to be Like Christ. From this point you accept Christ in your heart and begin to follow the path to God and avoid sin in your life you are considered "born again." If you have a different take on this, please respond. I think this is important to clarify.

Blessings

Cajunboy