Tolerating Gays

[Axxman]

I would shop at a gay person's store, talk to the gay person, treat them as any other person, basically. Why? Because to me, the gay person is quite simply a PERSON before they are a gay person, and, as such, we need to show them love.

Also, if you're going to boycott a gay person's business, you would be a hypocrite if you did not also boycott the businesses of everyone who has ever lied, or cheated, or taken the Lord's name in vain, or had lustful thoughts, or was prideful, etc. etc. etc. To do that, I think you'd have to just start your own self-sustaining colony. Which one of us (let alone those who are still of the world) has not committed at least one of the sins on that list?? ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, not some, not a few, not "homosexuals have sinned and fall short..." but ALL. We need grace as much as they need grace, and they're never going to want to approach God for that grace if we Christians give them the impression that God doesn't want them to join the fold.

"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people

[Iryssa]

I would shop at a gay person's store, talk to the gay person, treat them as any other person, basically. Why? Because to me, the gay person is quite simply a PERSON before they are a gay person, and, as such, we need to show them love.

Also, if you're going to boycott a gay person's business, you would be a hypocrite if you did not also boycott the businesses of everyone who has ever lied, or cheated, or taken the Lord's name in vain, or had lustful thoughts, or was prideful, etc. etc. etc. To do that, I think you'd have to just start your own self-sustaining colony. Which one of us (let alone those who are still of the world) has not committed at least one of the sins on that list?? ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, not some, not a few, not "homosexuals have sinned and fall short..." but ALL. We need grace as much as they need grace, and they're never going to want to approach God for that grace if we Christians give them the impression that God doesn't want them to join the fold.

"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people

[ParanoidAndroid]

Hello Paranoid Android. You make several interesting points and I will attempt to give you insight into my way of thinking by addressing those points.

First, I am far more tolerant of gays than God is (its a human fault, I know.) I know gays, I work closely with some...but I don't financially support their lifestyle. If I have a choice between financially supporting a store operated by homosexuals, and not supporting that store...I'm going to shop elsewhere. Otherwise, yes...I am completely intolerant of the homosexual lifestyle...but its not like I'm gonna send them to hell for all eternity or anything.

You also accuse me of slandering them. If a store is owned by gays, and I tell people the store is owned by gays...how is that slander? Really, I am telling the truth about them in order to 'run them out of business.' The truth of the matter is, I don't really have the power to run them off, and judging by the responses on this thread, the Christian community doesn't really have the desire to stand up against ungodly perversions.

Why not stand outside a porn shop? What self-respecting Christian hasn't picketed against a porn-shop...lol? My church has always prayed against such sinful establishments in our community. I thought all churches did that. Anyway, you have moved into the catagory of active protests outside a business (which I'm all for) when all I implied was a word of mouth campaign effort to harm the profitability of a business. Honestly though, If I thought an active protest outside of a gay shop would close it down...I'd do it without question.

Lastly...this is a biggie...you said, "Why would you even dare consider shooting off at homosexuals, when you are just as sinful as they are."

Thats a fairly bold statement. Do I sin? Sure. It would be a lie to say otherwise. Do I live an actively sinful lifestyle, that is an abomination to God? uh..no! Do I allow my sin to become my lifestyle? No again. There is a remarkable difference between being a sinner (which I am) and being a person who revels in a sinful lifestyle against God. I don't believe God would want His people actively, and knowingly, supporting that type of lifestyle.

Lastly, I understand you meant your post to me in a kind way...and thats how I took it. I hope you accept my reply as a Brother, and not as your enemy. Peace.

Indeed it is accepted as such - Peace, Brother

Thanks for clarifying. I cannot say that I agree with everything you wrote. I do not believe homosexuality is "an abomination" more than any other form of sexual sin. I know Leviticus 18 and 20 uses that phrase, but if you start using Leviticus to back up your position on homosexuality, shortly people are going to ask you why you shave your beard or wear poly-cotton shirts (both of which are forbidden in that same passage, among others). The term "abomination" in the Old Testament was generally used to denote idol worship (worshipping other gods is an abomination unto the Lord, in other words). As such, many scholars consider the homosexuality passages in Leviticus to refer only to homosexual relationships within the context of idol worship - of which there are many fertility cults that would have had just such rituals. I think there are much less problematic passages in the Bible that can be used to speak out against homosexuality.

I also disagree that there is a difference between a sinner and a sinner who revels in their sin. I think we are all sinners regardless, and when we start setting ourselves apart as different to other sinners then we can become prideful and boastful in our own actions, which we have no cause to do, because we are no different to other sinners. However, I do agree that God does not want us to support sinful lifestyles. But we are also to Love our neighbours, and so I go back to my original position and find no problem with shopping at a shop run by gays.

~ Regards, PA

[ParanoidAndroid]

Forrestkc asks,

What if was a gay Christian couple running the store though?

No such thing, mate. that is an oxymoron.......gay christian?? Ya can't be both.

Just a quick question, eric, if you don't mind. If a heterosexual says they are Christian, but find themselves tempted into having sex before marriage on multiple occassions, does this make them not Christian????? Just curious.....

[sweetycakes]

Forrestkc asks,

What if was a gay Christian couple running the store though?

No such thing, mate. that is an oxymoron.......gay christian?? Ya can't be both.

Just a quick question, eric, if you don't mind. If a heterosexual says they are Christian, but find themselves tempted into having sex before marriage on multiple occassions, does this make them not Christian????? Just curious.....

The difference, as I see it, between a lot of homosexuals, and others who fall into sin, is that a great number of homosexuals maintain that they should be able to retain their homosexual lifestyle, and still be Christian. Whereas, say, a heterosexual person who commits adultery (if he is honest) would recognize it as sin, and be sorrowful for their actions.

They don't pretend that they can carry on in such a lifestyle, or that it is right, or equally valid as a Christian path. They may admit that it is a sin, and that they are struggling against it, and that it is not God's will for their lives.

Whereas 'Homosexual Christians' seem adamant that their lifestyle is valid, and they often reduce the clear teachings of the bible to second place, after their chosen lifestyle. But what biblical evidence can they point to to support such a view?

[Wingwalker]

Can the homosexual see God's light in you?

[artsylady]

"The question is should we as Christians support businesses run by people who have made ungodliness a lifestyle? Should we as Christians offer tacit approval of homosexuality by financially supporting their livelihoods and turning a blind eye to their perversions? I don't think so. "

You have every right to support who you want to support. I personally would probably not spend a lot of money in the shop owned by the homosexual but would go there to buy a few things the odd time to make my prescence as a Christian be known to be a witness.

But to go around and tell everyone you know about them and to try to destroy them is also another thing entirely.

[None]

True, that's not how Jesus works, that's how our accuser, satan, works.

[Scarletprayers]

Paul didn't say anything about it to the people buying meat from those selling it that had offered it to idols??? He was only worried about what those thought who were eating it.

[Smalcald]

I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid shopping there, but if there was a Christian runned shop nearby I would shop their instead. That has nothing to do with the homosexual ownership though, I would shop at a Christian runned store over any other store if I could, homosexual-run or otherwise.

What if was a gay Christian couple running the store though?

A gay Christian couple is an oxymoron. If they were Christian and struggling with being gay, then I would support them. If they were claiming to be Christian but openly and unrepentently gay, then I would not support them. There is a passage in the epistles that talks about casting out an unrepentent brother. Its clear that unrepentence isnt something to tolerate. I would not be hateful to them, but neither would I wish to condone their sin by giving them business.

I don't think a gay Christian necessarily is an oxymoron. I do think that a gay Christian who is having sex with another man or women outside of marriage is in rebellion and ignoring God's Word on this matter. Does that mean they do not have salvation? Maybe as faith would lead one to repentance and contrition, and without faith you do not have salvation.

But there is the other matter of a person who believes in Christ yet wrestles with very strong homosexual urges and may fall now and then. It is not as easy as it seems for us to simply say a person with these temptations is not a Christian.

Is a person who has had sex outside of marriage and maybe is having sex outside of marriage a Christian or is that an oxymoron? How about a Christian right in the middle of an adulterous affair? Is that person a Christian at that point in time?

Sometimes it seems as we have such stong standards for gay people that we do not want to apply to ourselves.