Did Jesus pray to himself?

[other one]

BTW, if you all ever want to come to a consensus of this subject, you need to come to an agreement on what the Hebrew word elohiym and the Greek word theos means in the original languages. In reading through this thread it is obvious that different people have different thoughts on the meanings of these words......

[4Pillars]

In John 8:53-55 we read the following exchanges between the pharisees and Jesus....

John 8

53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is MY FATHER that honoureth me; OF WHOM YE SAY THAT HE IS YOUR GOD:

55 YET YE HAVE NOT KNOWN HIM; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

How could that be possible when the fact is YHWH himself appeared unto their forefathers on several occasion in the Old Testament and introduced himself as their only God? Yet, Jesus rebuked them all and told otherwise, see!? Did Jesus lied to them? Of course not.

The answer is very simple -- for me at least - - Jesus is YHWH himself, the Son of the unknown Invisible God Father, of whom NO man knew of his NAME at this time.

Revelation 19

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.

Ephesians 3:14-15

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,.....

God Bless

Edited December 8, 2007 by 4Pillars

[HAZARD]

The Trinity consists of three divine beings each with their own separate body, soul, and Spirit as over 500 Scriptures prove. To deny this and believe that God is three persons in one body is to believe the theories of men which cannot be supported Scripturally

Hi HAZARD,

You give two options above, both of which sound bazaar. Certainly "three persons in one body" is a concept not supported by scripture. But three beings each with seperate body, souls, and spirits? I think you have just reached the other extreme. Surely the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Greg.

Hi Greg.

The word trinity is not one time mentioned in Scripture. The word Godhead is mentioned three times.

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device" (Acts 17:29).

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9).

What does the Godhead consist of? Is it three beings in one body, Christ now being flesh and bone, the Father being wholy spirit, and the Holy Spirit, also a spirit? Or three being in one body? Or somewhere in the middle as you feel may be the answer? I do not believe there are any Scriptures supporting the somewhere in the middle possibility?

Haz.

[4Pillars]

ONE IN UNITY is used in the case of Gen. 2:24, when the husband and wife were called ONE by God. How can the two in number, be One? This is possible only in the sense of UNITY. We can understand John 10:30 in this sense,

Edited December 8, 2007 by 4Pillars

[whatsitmean]

God who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in times past unto the fathers by the prophets,

hath in these last day spoken unto us by His son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things and by whom also He made the worlds

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb. 1:1-3

While the trinity is a doctrinal fact, they can not be isolated as in

[Mutzrein]

God who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in times past unto the fathers by the prophets,

hath in these last day spoken unto us by His son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things and by whom also He made the worlds

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb. 1:1-3

While the trinity is a doctrinal fact, they can not be isolated as in

[whatsitmean]

John 1:1 teaches us that the Word is eternal like God, He is in unity with God and He is God like God.

Certainly they are equal but the progression of revelation in the scripture shows that they are separate identities and assume functions within the God head. Think of Abraham, Sarah and Isaac. Among themselves, they have separate identities, but to the servants, the word of one was as the word of them all.

To mount Moriah, Abraham and Isaac walked together, Genesis 22:6 and it is repeated in verse 8 to show the importance of that event. Isaac did not know where they were going but he was in agreement that whatever had been told to his father is what they would do. There would be no rebellion. (See also Genesis 20:5) Isaac

[whatsitmean]

Before the incarnation He was God Himself. It was He that appeared to Abraham, Moses in the burning bush, the soldier that encountered Joshua, and so on. He was the Word of God as John 1:1 declares and He was the Son the God.

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made a high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ, the Same yesterday, today and forever.

He was and is the Creator. Hebrews 1:2 He is in every way, fully God. He is not just some manifest image or a figment, but is a fully self existent being

[Mutzrein]

God's gift of His Son is the greatest manifestaion of His love for the world, so what did He give?

Life!

[whatsitmean]

Life is a pretty good answer, if we are talking about mere creation because Adam had life. He also could have had eternal life, if he could have got past those angels with the flaming swords and got back to the tree of life.

It is also true that Christ came to restore that life as John 1:4 says. The quantity of life is not worth much without quality though. It is manifestation of God's love through the Gift of His Son that gives life quality.

So the question remains; what is the gift of God that manifests His love for the world?

Let me give you a hint: If you don't believe in the Trinity, you can't answer this question. In which case the whole Bible melts down to a puddle of goo and Abraham was the biggest fool on the planet because he was willing to give more than the God who directed him.