"Don't Tase Me, Bro" Student Speaks Out

[Axxman]

This has got to be the poorest excuse for not requiring officers to undergo tasing themselves in order to be given a weapon like this to be used on others.

I was not suggesting that officers be tased when the are in the middle of an arrest, or for them to see how it would be for them if someone took the weapon off them and used it against them. I believe that nobody should expect somebody to go through something that they are not prepared to go through themselves. This is a little bit different than shooting somebody in self defence: It goes without saying that I am not suggesting that officers be shot with so that they know what it is like for a bullet to enter their body, so that they can empathise with a person that they may shoot.

This would prevent police, campus police, security guards etc. from getting "taser happy" and going round tasing people because "I'll show you what I can do if you don't do what I say" and it would also prevent officers getting scared and tasering people without really thinking about "is it really necessary". Particularly in this day and age where the police like so many other organisations has "shifted the goalposts" or lowered the standards for recruitment and we now have policemen/women who are physically very small/short or grossly overweight and see the taser as an idea to "make up for that" when faced with a situation that they are scared of handling.

Like pepper spray the taser is often used as a "punishment". If those using the taser had an idea what if felt like to be electrocuted, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to do this to others.

"Taser Happy"...thats a good one.

I would NEVER suggest that Officers don't on occassion take things too far. When the adrenaline starts flowing and your in a dangerous situation it can be a challenge to "fight fairly" all the time...especially when the person you are fighting isn't bound by the same rules that you are. However, in those situations, if an Officer was going to lose control...I cannot think of a safer, or less lethal, thing that an Officer could do than use his taser. Every other force option an officer has at their disposal to use on a person can cause more serious injury than a taser. Whether it be the baton, physical force, or shooting...the taser is BY FAR the safest and least likely to cause injury.

I don't disagree that 'sometimes' things like pepper spray and tasers (even restraint chairs) are used as punitive punishment. Its unfortunate, but law enforcement officers are NOT 100% right all the time in the way they handle themselves. However, this discussion is about tasers and I think you seriously misunderstand the positive side of this "force option."

[faith pleases God]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/21558022/

Was this officer reprimanded or held accountable?

[buckthesystem]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/21558022/

Was this officer reprimanded or held accountable?

You got to be kidding! These people are considered "special" and live in a world of no accountability.

[faith pleases God]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/21558022/

Was this officer reprimanded or held accountable?

You got to be kidding! These people are considered "special" and live in a world of no accountability.

I understand. I was asking a rhetorical question to expose the abuse that is allowed.

[AnotherTraveler]

This has got to be the poorest excuse for not requiring officers to undergo tasing themselves in order to be given a weapon like this to be used on others.

I was not suggesting that officers be tased when the are in the middle of an arrest, or for them to see how it would be for them if someone took the weapon off them and used it against them. I believe that nobody should expect somebody to go through something that they are not prepared to go through themselves. This is a little bit different than shooting somebody in self defence: It goes without saying that I am not suggesting that officers be shot with so that they know what it is like for a bullet to enter their body, so that they can empathise with a person that they may shoot.

This would prevent police, campus police, security guards etc. from getting "taser happy" and going round tasing people because "I'll show you what I can do if you don't do what I say" and it would also prevent officers getting scared and tasering people without really thinking about "is it really necessary". Particularly in this day and age where the police like so many other organisations has "shifted the goalposts" or lowered the standards for recruitment and we now have policemen/women who are physically very small/short or grossly overweight and see the taser as an idea to "make up for that" when faced with a situation that they are scared of handling.

Like pepper spray the taser is often used as a "punishment". If those using the taser had an idea what if felt like to be electrocuted, maybe they wouldn't be so quick to do this to others.

"Taser Happy"...thats a good one.

I would NEVER suggest that Officers don't on occassion take things too far. When the adrenaline starts flowing and your in a dangerous situation it can be a challenge to "fight fairly" all the time...especially when the person you are fighting isn't bound by the same rules that you are. However, in those situations, if an Officer was going to lose control...I cannot think of a safer, or less lethal, thing that an Officer could do than use his taser. Every other force option an officer has at their disposal to use on a person can cause more serious injury than a taser. Whether it be the baton, physical force, or shooting...the taser is BY FAR the safest and least likely to cause injury.

I don't disagree that 'sometimes' things like pepper spray and tasers (even restraint chairs) are used as punitive punishment. Its unfortunate, but law enforcement officers are NOT 100% right all the time in the way they handle themselves. However, this discussion is about tasers and I think you seriously misunderstand the positive side of this "force option."

It's not just the tool, it's the person wielding the power and are backed by the tools.

An example...

A few days ago my daughter was driving and ran out of gas 4 blocks from her house. She has two babies that she carried to her home, leaving a note on the windshield that she would be back quickly to gas up the vehicle and bring it home. She left her name and phone number, and arriving home, she called me, and I came with a gas can to find a tow truck loading up her vehicle. We went to the HQ of the Highway Patrol (only 6 blocks away) and asked why this was handled this way, and every officer was apologetic, including the shift watch commander, but when the officer that did this came in, he behaved threatenly and unbelievably rude, and all the "fellow officers" hung their heads in embarrasment. This guy is a powder keg waiting to explode, and he is armed and dangerous, and if he would treat a young, unthreatening mother this way, imagine what the future holds for someone that disagrees with him.

Officers that abuse their positions should face assualt charges, just like you would if you tasered someone that was just speaking something you did not want to hear.

[buckthesystem]

It's not just the tool, it's the person wielding the power and are backed by the tools.

An example...

A few days ago my daughter was driving and ran out of gas 4 blocks from her house. She has two babies that she carried to her home, leaving a note on the windshield that she would be back quickly to gas up the vehicle and bring it home. She left her name and phone number, and arriving home, she called me, and I came with a gas can to find a tow truck loading up her vehicle. We went to the HQ of the Highway Patrol (only 6 blocks away) and asked why this was handled this way, and every officer was apologetic, including the shift watch commander, but when the officer that did this came in, he behaved threatenly and unbelievably rude, and all the "fellow officers" hung their heads in embarrasment. This guy is a powder keg waiting to explode, and he is armed and dangerous, and if he would treat a young, unthreatening mother this way, imagine what the future holds for someone that disagrees with him.

Officers that abuse their positions should face assualt charges, just like you would if you tasered someone that was just speaking something you did not want to hear.

Did you get the your daughter's car back without having to pay anything?

If you paid anything at all I hope you will be engaging a lawyer to make a case to get the money back and an apology from the policeman involved, as well as the tow truck company of course. Worth even going to court about it, on principle, in my opinion.

People like this cannot be allowed to get away with something like this. Think of the next victim of this guy's control-freakish attitude: They may be a disabled, homeless person who has spent their last cent on the car payment so that they don't have to sleep in a shop doorway.

Also what about the inconvenience to you and your daughter. I'm sure that with two babies she doesn't have time to go around chasing up on her towed away car.

[Axxman]

It's not just the tool, it's the person wielding the power and are backed by the tools.

An example...

A few days ago my daughter was driving and ran out of gas 4 blocks from her house. She has two babies that she carried to her home, leaving a note on the windshield that she would be back quickly to gas up the vehicle and bring it home. She left her name and phone number, and arriving home, she called me, and I came with a gas can to find a tow truck loading up her vehicle. We went to the HQ of the Highway Patrol (only 6 blocks away) and asked why this was handled this way, and every officer was apologetic, including the shift watch commander, but when the officer that did this came in, he behaved threatenly and unbelievably rude, and all the "fellow officers" hung their heads in embarrasment. This guy is a powder keg waiting to explode, and he is armed and dangerous, and if he would treat a young, unthreatening mother this way, imagine what the future holds for someone that disagrees with him.

Officers that abuse their positions should face assualt charges, just like you would if you tasered someone that was just speaking something you did not want to hear.

How ungrateful! I wish somebody had stolen the car. Then you guys woulda been this first to complain to the police. Maybe that cop shoulda sat there and babysat the car since your daughter was too lazy and absent-minded to actually put gas in her car.

As far as the "fellow officers" hanging theie heads in embarrasment...what you experienced was good cop/bad cop. It happens all the time, not just in interrogation rooms. When a member of the public becomes upset it is quite useful for cops to "act" as though they are sympathetic with whatever the issue is, while the initial officer HAD TO maintain his authority and appear unshakeable. Police are trained to do this. Its called different things, we call it IPC skills, Verbal Judo, etc... Its almost funny to hear your side of it...because I would be willing to bet they all had a good chuckle at your daughters expense when she left. She should have put gas in the car.

[buckthesystem]

It's not just the tool, it's the person wielding the power and are backed by the tools.

An example...

A few days ago my daughter was driving and ran out of gas 4 blocks from her house. She has two babies that she carried to her home, leaving a note on the windshield that she would be back quickly to gas up the vehicle and bring it home. She left her name and phone number, and arriving home, she called me, and I came with a gas can to find a tow truck loading up her vehicle. We went to the HQ of the Highway Patrol (only 6 blocks away) and asked why this was handled this way, and every officer was apologetic, including the shift watch commander, but when the officer that did this came in, he behaved threatenly and unbelievably rude, and all the "fellow officers" hung their heads in embarrasment. This guy is a powder keg waiting to explode, and he is armed and dangerous, and if he would treat a young, unthreatening mother this way, imagine what the future holds for someone that disagrees with him.

Officers that abuse their positions should face assualt charges, just like you would if you tasered someone that was just speaking something you did not want to hear.

How ungrateful! I wish somebody had stolen the car. Then you guys woulda been this first to complain to the police. Maybe that cop shoulda sat there and babysat the car since your daughter was too lazy and absent-minded to actually put gas in her car.

As far as the "fellow officers" hanging theie heads in embarrasment...what you experienced was good cop/bad cop. It happens all the time, not just in interrogation rooms. When a member of the public becomes upset it is quite useful for cops to "act" as though they are sympathetic with whatever the issue is, while the initial officer HAD TO maintain his authority and appear unshakeable. Police are trained to do this. Its called different things, we call it IPC skills, Verbal Judo, etc... Its almost funny to hear your side of it...because I would be willing to bet they all had a good chuckle at your daughters expense when she left. She should have put gas in the car.

Well this is interesting. You saying that you think it is part of a policeman's job to be as nasty and annoying to the public as possible (forgetting of course that the public pays the taxes that pay their wages and fund all this nastiness) and then ridicule them and laugh at them as soon as their back is turned. Talk about "biting the hand that feeds them"!!!!!

And just what is the point of this so called "good cop, bad cop routine (sketch, pretence, what ever you like)?

What purpose is it supposed to serve?

You know the way you put it, it sounds like in this particular instance the policeman in question came along, saw Anothertraveller's daughter's car, read the note on it, and thought "I'll show this woman for not putting enough gas in her car, and even if she gets here before the tow truck has taken away the car, all the other policemen will support me by playing silly verbal games, and then we'll all have a good old laugh".

And to think that this is all tax payer funded too.

Is that how you see it?

[Axxman]

Well this is interesting. You saying that you think it is part of a policeman's job to be as nasty and annoying to the public as possible (forgetting of course that the public pays the taxes that pay their wages and fund all this nastiness) and then ridicule them and laugh at them as soon as their back is turned. Talk about "biting the hand that feeds them"!!!!!

And just what is the point of this so called "good cop, bad cop routine (sketch, pretence, what ever you like)?

What purpose is it supposed to serve?

You know the way you put it, it sounds like in this particular instance the policeman in question came along, saw Anothertraveller's daughter's car, read the note on it, and thought "I'll show this woman for not putting enough gas in her car, and even if she gets here before the tow truck has taken away the car, all the other policemen will support me by playing silly verbal games, and then we'll all have a good old laugh".

And to think that this is all tax payer funded too.

Is that how you see it?

Don't forget that law enforcement officers pay taxes too. So by your logic, they pay a portion of their own salaries.

As far as what you call "nastiness"...I never said they ridicule them. Once again this is an inflammatory word that you toss out in an effort to sway the discussion. The fact is, people like you will NEVER understand the mentality and fortitude it requires to be a law enforcement officer. I find it ironic that you are fine when officers 'appear' to ridicule their own...but you take offense if they ridicule you. The truth is, they are not making fun of you, they simply understand and know things that you simply don't. They are paid to think about things that the generally public doesn't want to think about. SO when irresponsible mother with two babies goes out (and doesn't fill up her tank so that she has to walk home with them) gets all cranky, they have a good chuckle about it. Why do they have a chuckle? Because they know what she doesn't and its the best way to deal with irresponsible/irrational people who like to blame their mistakes on other people.

Lastly...these are not "silly verbal games." It takes years to perfect the art of de-escalating speech. The bottom line is that this lady went into the police station upset and angry...she left feeling that she was right and that the majority of the Dept. sided with her. I work in a Correctional Facility now. I work in the intake unit and my task is to deal with people RIGHT AFTER they are arrested. I was assigned this task because of my superior IPC (Inter-personnal communication) skills. It is specifically my job to talk to people after they are arrested, as soon as they arrive. Usually they are very angry and upset at the officers who arrested them, and the circumstances surrounding their arrest. It is nearly 100% effective to show empathy with the suspect, and I often agree with them that the arresting officer was harsh, abusive, or just flat out wrong. I will say "nearly" anything to gain the confidence and control of the suspect. A good police officer KNOWS how to de-escalate a situation, even at the expense of other officers. However, and this is tricky...the officer who is being complained against MUST remain steadfast in defending his decision making skills or he will lose credibility.

Thats not just how I see it...that how it is.

[buckthesystem]

Well this is interesting. You saying that you think it is part of a policeman's job to be as nasty and annoying to the public as possible (forgetting of course that the public pays the taxes that pay their wages and fund all this nastiness) and then ridicule them and laugh at them as soon as their back is turned. Talk about "biting the hand that feeds them"!!!!!

And just what is the point of this so called "good cop, bad cop routine (sketch, pretence, what ever you like)?

What purpose is it supposed to serve?

You know the way you put it, it sounds like in this particular instance the policeman in question came along, saw Anothertraveller's daughter's car, read the note on it, and thought "I'll show this woman for not putting enough gas in her car, and even if she gets here before the tow truck has taken away the car, all the other policemen will support me by playing silly verbal games, and then we'll all have a good old laugh".

And to think that this is all tax payer funded too.

Is that how you see it?

Don't forget that law enforcement officers pay taxes too. So by your logic, they pay a portion of their own salaries.

As far as what you call "nastiness"...I never said they ridicule them. Once again this is an inflammatory word that you toss out in an effort to sway the discussion. The fact is, people like you will NEVER understand the mentality and fortitude it requires to be a law enforcement officer. I find it ironic that you are fine when officers 'appear' to ridicule their own...but you take offense if they ridicule you. The truth is, they are not making fun of you, they simply understand and know things that you simply don't. they are not making fun of you, they simply understand and know things that you simply don't. SO when irresponsible mother with two babies goes out (and doesn't fill up her tank so that she has to walk home with them) gets all cranky, they have a good chuckle about it. Why do they have a chuckle? Because they know what she doesn't and its the best way to deal with irresponsible/irrational people who like to blame their mistakes on other people.

Lastly...these are not "silly verbal games." It takes years to perfect the art of de-escalating speech. The bottom line is that this lady went into the police station upset and angry...she left feeling that she was right and that the majority of the Dept. sided with her. I work in a Correctional Facility now. I work in the intake unit and my task is to deal with people RIGHT AFTER they are arrested. I was assigned this task because of my superior IPC (Inter-personnal communication) skills. It is specifically my job to talk to people after they are arrested, as soon as they arrive. Usually they are very angry and upset at the officers who arrested them, and the circumstances surrounding their arrest. It is nearly 100% effective to show empathy with the suspect, and I often agree with them that the arresting officer was harsh, abusive, or just flat out wrong. I will say "nearly" anything to gain the confidence and control of the suspect. A good police officer KNOWS how to de-escalate a situation, even at the expense of other officers. However, and this is tricky...the officer who is being complained against MUST remain steadfast in defending his decision making skills or he will lose credibility.

Thats not just how I see it...that how it is.

Don't you see the irony of government employees "paying taxes"? It just means that they are getting less pay. My point was that they "work" for the people, and all the equipment that they have (including tasers - which Amnesty International has defined as "instruments of torture" and their very livelihoods are provided by the people. If the people were to withdraw their taxes, civil servants would not be able to exist, and the civil servants would have nothing to pay their taxes with or withdraw. So therefore, they are totally reliant on the goodwill of the people, and to abuse them if to "bite the hand that feeds them".

However, this is getting away from the issue. To quote you: "As far as what you call "nastiness"...I never said they ridicule them" I would think that by your description, the word "ridicule" is pretty appropriate.

And: "I find it ironic that you are fine when officers 'appear' to ridicule their own...but you take offense if they ridicule you." Now I never said it was fine when officers appear to ridicule their own. I think it is totally inappropriate to ridicule anybody, certainly not one of their own either.

Quote: "they are not making fun of you, they simply understand and know things that you simply don't." That sounds a bit patronising, don't you reckon? In this particular case what did the officer know that the woman who owned the car didn't?

And: "SO when irresponsible mother with two babies goes out (and doesn't fill up her tank so that she has to walk home with them) gets all cranky, they have a good chuckle about it. Why do they have a chuckle? Because they know what she doesn't and its the best way to deal with irresponsible/irrational people who like to blame their mistakes on other people". Anothertraveller didn't say that her daughter was irresponsible or irrational! What made you think that? And she didn't say that her daughter blamed "other people" for her car being towed away. However, she most certainly should have blamed the officer who was responsible for the car being towed away, because she had left a note explaining the circumstances. The question is: Was the officer able to read and understand it? Did he not believe that it was true that the driver had run out of petrol and thought that she had maliciously left the car where it was to cause trouble and just written the note to confuse whoever was puzzled by it? Can "law enforcement" officers use common sense? Are they allowed to use common sense and think for themselves, or do they have to blindly follow the "law" to the letter? Or do you think it was a case of "this person is obviously in a dilemma, so I will just use the power vested in me by the state to make things worse for her"?

You were the one who mentioned the "good cop, bad cop routine" and I asked you what it is supposed to achieve? I guess you did answer it in a way, and I take the answer to be "to make the members of the public think that some of us are 'on their side' when we're really not! So we always win."

Lastly, quote: "the officer who is being complained against MUST remain steadfast in defending his decision making skills or he will lose credibility". In other words: "Even if you are at fault don't ever admit it, maintain your righteousness to the bitter end!"

Is that about it?