Who are you ok with spanking your children?

[zaidenmom]

Just a thought, but the scriptures, while timeless and divine, were written before we knew of the severe psychological damage that aggressive physical contact from authority figures could have.

Hmmmmm ... The Bible is the Word of God ..... Psychology is the study by man. Which to believe?

good point!! I told my husband that if our son needs it then he will get a spanking. we as humans are quick to get frustrated so I want to make sure that I am not angry when I spank him. my husband has rage issues so we made the decision not to spank so that our son would not deal with the same types of issues, however, I do believe that if you spare the rod you spoil the child, and I do not want my son spoiled like that. the BIBLE does not say abuse your child it talks about discipline (not the same thing).

zaidenmom

[Axxman]

Since some people have taken to using the scriptures to justify hitting their kids as a form of punishment, it is only reasonable that I give an alternate (and more loving) view of these oft distorted scriptures.

Proverbs 13:24

He who spares his rod hates his son,

But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Ah--- the infamous "rod." As most of you know, the 'rod" was a sheperds rod. A good sheperd uses the rod to guide his sheep...not hitting the sheep. You will find ZERO biblical evidence that the 'rod' is used to hit sheep. King David called the rod a "comfort and a shelter"...BUT the rod was to be used to drive away predators. It was intended for guidance and protection...not hitting the sheep.

Proverbs 22:15

Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him.

Here we see that the 'rod' can and should be used for correction. Again, there is no indication here that the rod is used for beating sheep offenders. The rod simply corrects the path.

Proverbs 23:13

Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

People who hit their kids get all excited about this verse because it says you can "beat" your kids...and they won't die! Woo Hoo! Well, either the bible is a liar, or most of you misread this verse, because I can tell you without any hesitation that if you "beat" your child (as the verse allegedly says) they can, and sometimes do, surely die. The Hebrew word "nakah" is horribly misrepresented in this passage. While the word can, and often does, mean to strike, kill, smite, beat...it can also mean to clap, applaud, thrust, guide, push! I realize that it goes totally against the christian mindset to actually consider the idea that applauding your children can have postive benefits (and it won't kill 'em to get praise either)...I think it is not beyond a stretch of the imagination to suggest (based on what we know of a sheperd's rod) that this verse could just as easily support the notion that we guide, or push, our children along as a sheperd would with his rod...AGAIN...without beating the sheep!

Proverbs 23:14

You shall beat him with a rod, And deliver his soul from hell.

We've already covered the FACT that "beating" or "nakah" doesn't have to mean physically strike in regards to its context with a shepherd's rod.

Lastly...most of what you guys talk about in regards to spanking is completely made up. There is NO scriptural reference that tells us what beating/spanking with the rod might be. It doesn't tell us where to hit, how many times to hit, how to lovingly hit, when its appropriate to hit, how much it should hurt, what ages are appropriate...nothing. Even the BIG RULE amongst spankers that you "should never spank in anger" is a made up rule! Its a good rule, but it is flatly extra-biblical. The mere fact that you must add human and extra-biblical conditions to the act of spanking your children points to the logical conclusion that the bible doesn't tell us to hit our children.

Most Christian advocates of spanking have a ritual and protocol they believe to

[Axxman]

ok axxman, you're logic is lost on me. first you say that spanking is banned in the US, and that it can get you arrested. then you acknowledge it is not illegal, but insist it is still banned.

you can't go to jail for something that is not illegal.

it is not illegal (or banned) to spank a child. it's just rumoured to be prohibited. rumours don't make facts. no cop will arrest someone for spanking. they will arrest someone if evidence of physical ABUSE is found.

and spanking is not abuse. if the parent has left bruises on their child, that is not a spanking, and they can be arrested for abuse.

Hey LadyC...I openly acknowledge that my use of the word "banned" was probably a bad choice.

I'm not really sure how to put it. The idea that I was attempting to get across was that spanking is generally regarded as an imperfect tool and that it is subject to scrutiny. While spanking in itself is NOT illegal, the rules concerning where to draw the line is HIGHLY subjective. I can tell you for a fact that if an officer thinks you went too far...he can arrest you. It is the officers call, and the officers responsibility to protect the child. Many Officers will simply decide to err on the side of caution. I wouldn't be comfortable with that if I was a spanking parent.

Even the website that someone posted with state laws (I agree with you about them using the word "banned" as inflammatory)...most of those state laws are pretty non-committal on where that line is drawn. I called CPS in our area and they said 1-2 open-handed swats was about the max. Admittedly, that doesn't seem too abusive...in fact it doesn't seem like discipline at all to me.

[OneLight]

Axxman,

You took a long time to admit that you don't know what it really means. Spanking is a form of punishment meant for the most sever offenses. If we read something in the Word that we do not want to accept, we try to prove it false. I'll stick with the Word, thank you.

OneLight

[Guest LadyC]

i thought the wording was pretty committal in all the states... they almost all referenced excessive punishment with intent to harm, or that causes physical injury.

yes, a cop can arrest if he feels there is ABUSE. but he can't arrest without some sort of evidence of said abuse.... such as at least bruising.

here's how comfortable i am with spanking, regardless of what police might do. when my oldest was 13, she got her last spanking. we split it up over 2 days. her offenses were many. she'd been sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night to go roaming around town, she'd become sexually active, was lying left and right, and was being disrespectful to the point of calling me such filthy names i can't repeat them here. once we figured out what was going on we sat her down for a discussion, at which point she denied everything. finally my husband grabbed a pen and paper and started marking down each answer she gave that we knew to be a lie, and said you'll get one lick with a belt for every lie you tell". she was a stubborn child, it took her to the twelfth mark before she decided to come clean.

we gave her the option of having her licks witnessed by a family friend or by a police officer. she chose the family friend.

we allowed time for all our emotions to cool off before administering the belt to her bottom. six one night, six the next. and on the day in between, i personally took her to the police station to have a sit down chat with a police officer about her behaviour.

we never had to discipline her in that manner again.

and by the way, i'm sure that (as always) someone will start slinging around accusations of child abuse because we used a belt, because she got a total of twelve licks, and in fact, in the past someone has even accused me of sexual abuse on this board for spanking her at that age. so i just want to say right up front, save your criticism. i am unapologetic about the disciplinary measure i used.

[Emily~Anne]

In all of my husband's 33 years as an supervising emergency dispatcher, a parent has never been arrested for spanking their child in this county while my husband was on the job.

As a matter of fact, the police officer will usually have a stern word with the child about his/her behavior.

You gotta remember, police officers have to deal with alot of juvenile delinquents so they appreciate parents disciplining their children.

[sweetycakes]

I don't think children should be spanked.

I think they should be chained up under the stairs!!

Only kidding

To be honest, I think it is a good thing that children should be spanked..........in measure.......and from a responsible adult.

I was spanked by my dad when I was a nipper, and it never did me any harm. In fact, I respect him for it, since I was something of an unruly child, and looking back, I see now the sense of discipline that he tried to instill in me, and I also see how a lack of discipline (yes, physical in some cases), has led to a breakdown of respect displayed by the younger generation to the older.

But there is a big difference between a sound spanking.........and abuse.

I would be in favour of someone spanking my child, with one or two conditions..... Either:

That the person is a family member.

That the person has temporary authority over the child.....such as a babysitter (adults only)

That the term 'spanking', in my view, means maybe one or two 'smacks' across the back of the legs or bottom. Not a repetitive, 'across the knee' thrashing.

I would even be in favour of a teacher 'spanking' a child, if the child is very young.......say, up to the age of 7.

But, then, .......I'm old fashioned.

I very rarely actually slapped my daughter when she was young. Maybe once or twice, on the legs, and not hard. Same with our Connor.......the slaps I give him are only 'token' slaps, to grab his attention.

Of course, after that, I am sorry.

But I DO think it's necessary sometimes, especially when trying to alert them to dangers that they otherwise would ignore by verbal warnings.......such as running away when on the roadside, etc.

Sometimes you've got to be cruel to be kind.

Sometimes it's the 'lesser of two evils.'

[artsylady]

Proverbs 13:24

He who spares his rod hates his son,

But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Ah--- the infamous "rod." As most of you know, the 'rod" was a sheperds rod. A good sheperd uses the rod to guide his sheep...not hitting the sheep. You will find ZERO biblical evidence that the 'rod' is used to hit sheep. King David called the rod a "comfort and a shelter"...BUT the rod was to be used to drive away predators. It was intended for guidance and protection...not hitting the sheep.

Proverbs 22:15

Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him.

Here we see that the 'rod' can and should be used for correction. Again, there is no indication here that the rod is used for beating sheep offenders. The rod simply corrects the path.

Proverbs 23:13

Do not withhold correction from a child, For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

People who hit their kids get all excited about this verse because it says you can "beat" your kids...and they won't die! Woo Hoo! Well, either the bible is a liar, or most of you misread this verse, because I can tell you without any hesitation that if you "beat" your child (as the verse allegedly says) they can, and sometimes do, surely die. The Hebrew word "nakah" is horribly misrepresented in this passage. While the word can, and often does, mean to strike, kill, smite, beat...it can also mean to clap, applaud, thrust, guide, push! I realize that it goes totally against the christian mindset to actually consider the idea that applauding your children can have postive benefits (and it won't kill 'em to get praise either)...I think it is not beyond a stretch of the imagination to suggest (based on what we know of a sheperd's rod) that this verse could just as easily support the notion that we guide, or push, our children along as a sheperd would with his rod...AGAIN...without beating the sheep!

Proverbs 23:14

You shall beat him with a rod, And deliver his soul from hell.

We've already covered the FACT that "beating" or "nakah" doesn't have to mean physically strike in regards to its context with a shepherd's rod.

Lastly...most of what you guys talk about in regards to spanking is completely made up. There is NO scriptural reference that tells us what beating/spanking with the rod might be. It doesn't tell us where to hit, how many times to hit, how to lovingly hit, when its appropriate to hit, how much it should hurt, what ages are appropriate...nothing. Even the BIG RULE amongst spankers that you "should never spank in anger" is a made up rule! Its a good rule, but it is flatly extra-biblical. The mere fact that you must add human and extra-biblical conditions to the act of spanking your children points to the logical conclusion that the bible doesn't tell us to hit our children.

Something to think about for sure. I have questioned the practise of spanking and always knew there are a lot of parents that seem to do this mindlessly. My nephew seemed to get spanked daily until he was about 13 and I always thought 'do you folks not realize this is just not working for this kid??""

Hey Axxman, I think we might agree on something! woohoo!

[Giaour]

Spanking stopped working for my son when he was about 8 years old.

But then taking away the video games and tv worked well.

[artsylady]

here's how comfortable i am with spanking, regardless of what police might do. when my oldest was 13, she got her last spanking. we split it up over 2 days. her offenses were many. she'd been sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night to go roaming around town, she'd become sexually active, was lying left and right, and was being disrespectful to the point of calling me such filthy names i can't repeat them here. once we figured out what was going on we sat her down for a discussion, at which point she denied everything. finally my husband grabbed a pen and paper and started marking down each answer she gave that we knew to be a lie, and said you'll get one lick with a belt for every lie you tell". she was a stubborn child, it took her to the twelfth mark before she decided to come clean.

we gave her the option of having her licks witnessed by a family friend or by a police officer. she chose the family friend.

we allowed time for all our emotions to cool off before administering the belt to her bottom. six one night, six the next. and on the day in between, i personally took her to the police station to have a sit down chat with a police officer about her behaviour.

we never had to discipline her in that manner again.

and by the way, i'm sure that (as always) someone will start slinging around accusations of child abuse because we used a belt, because she got a total of twelve licks, and in fact, in the past someone has even accused me of sexual abuse on this board for spanking her at that age. so i just want to say right up front, save your criticism. i am unapologetic about the disciplinary measure i used.

Not saying what you did was wrong, but I'm thinking if it was my daughter, I would have first sit down and talk with her about how dangerous the behaviour was - physically and how emotionally, a woman simply can't go around being sexually active without emotional repercusions. She would have had to then undergo an internal exam, have an std test and a pregnancy test - and then she'd obviously have to WAIT to see what the results were. In the meantime, I'd have her look at statistics on stds and have her start thinking about what she'd do if she was pregnant. I'd also get my husband to talk with her and tell her exactly what boys thought of girls who were sexually acting out in the neighbourhood and what they're surely saying behind her back and what they'll say to get her to comply. At age 13 they're on the brink of adulthood and need to learn how to make good decisions on their own and we need to equip them to do that. IMO spanking isn't very good equipment. There's just no new good information or insight they can take with them for the next time they're faced with that kind of decision or temptation. A lot of times, I think all they learn or think about are more creative ways on how not to get caught next time.

On the other hand, I heard one of the worst arguments against spanking on Oprah when she said that spanking hurts a child's self esteem. Well, when a child has misbehaved, that's NOT the time to build self esteem. A child SHOULD feel badly about what they've done. The trick is to get them feeling good about themselves when they are being good. Positive reinforcement is more powerful than spanking I believe.