Fundamentalist

[Guest shiloh357]

I do not believe in the trinity,and could easily say that if you believe that Jesus was not the Father then you as a trinitarian are denying his deity because Jesus himself said in John 17:1-3 that the Father is the only true God,therefore by denying Jesus is the Father and saying he is ''God the Son'' you actually deny his deity and you,yourself are not a christian.

Jesus was saying that the Father is the only true God in opposition to false gods, not in opposition to Jesus Himself who the apostle John also calls the only true God.

And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true One. We are in the true One--that is, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20)

But I simply can not find scripture to support the opinion that if some one believe him to be the son of God,believes in his death and resurrection accept him as their saviour,but does not believe him to be God that they are not saved.

Because it impugns His Character and integrity to deny His Deity. It would be interesting to see someone demonstrate how one can cast a shadow on God's integrity and at the same time claim to be a true follower of Christ.

The Bible does not offer salvation from Jesus, the man. There simply some essential, primary doctrines that we cannot sacrifice to salve someone else's conscience. If a person denies the very basic doctrine of the Deity of Jesus, what other doctrines are the prone to deny as well?

[Mutzrein]

Shiloh

I wasn't asking for the cut and paste expository . . . which of course is very familiar. I was asking for the scripture that you used from which the word 'liar' is taken.

[kari21]

The question I would ask anyone who wants to accept Christ while not believing He is God is:

Why bother?

Seriously, if one is aware that only God can forgive and wash you clean from your sins, you would have to accept that Jesus is God. How could you expect Jesus to forgive you and save you if you don't believe Jesus has the power to do that by denying his deity?

[sweetycakes]

The question I would ask anyone who wants to accept Christ while not believing He is God is:

Why bother?

Seriously, if one is aware that only God can forgive and wash you clean from your sins, you would have to accept that Jesus is God. How could you expect Jesus to forgive you and save you if you don't believe Jesus has the power to do that by denying his deity?

Good point.

It is also interesting to note (regarding the Deity of Jesus), that He did claim Divinity for Himself.

Therefore, He is either lying, or He is God.

.........So, if He was either lying, or wrong, there would be no point 'accepting' Christ anyway.

We either take Him for Who He claimed to be, or otherwise there would be no point.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh

I wasn't asking for the cut and paste expository . . . which of course is very familiar. I was asking for the scripture that you used from which the word 'liar' is taken.

That expository is from my study on "A Biblical Understanding of Jesus' Deitiy" in the study forum. I wrote it some time ago. The reason I posted it is that I can prove and you cannot disprove or refute one point I raised supporting the fact that Jesus is God.

Therefore, since you have no choice but to accept the truth that the Bible teaches the Deity of Jesus. For you to deny that the Bible teaches the Deity of Jesus and for you to deny the testimony that Jesus and the Father both attest to his Deity, means that you are calling God a liar.

I don't have to have a specific verse. It is called logical, deductive reasoning. You demonstrate now, as you have in the past that you are so bent on holding on to this nonsensicla idea of yours, that you are willing to disregard and discard the very words of Scripture. You would rather be wrong, than believe the Bible. It not an issue of right or wrong with you. The issue is your pride, which hold more precious than the testimony of the Bible or testimonies of Jesus and the Father.

[stan4257]

I don't have to have a specific verse. It is called logical, deductive reasoning. You demonstrate now, as you have in the past that you are so bent on holding on to this nonsensicla idea of yours, that you are willing to disregard and discard the very words of Scripture.

I have no intention of getting between two antagonists who obviously know each other's point of view very well, but I do wonder if the above statement is not self contradictory.

How is it possible to disregard and discard the very words of Scripture when those words are not there in the first place?

And why should I not wish to get between these two antagonists? Because I do not see much evidence of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control in this conversation.

[Guest shiloh357]

I have no intention of getting between two antagonists who obviously know each other's point of view very well, but I do wonder if the above statement is not self contradictory.

How is it possible to disregard and discard the very words of Scripture when those words are not there in the first place?

He denies that the Bible teaches the Deity of Jesus. Are you saying that the Bible does not teach the Deity of Jesus. When a person in the face of overwhelming testimony of Christ's Deity continues to deny it, He is calling both Jesus and the Father, liars.

And why should I not wish to get between these two antagonists? Because I do not see much evidence of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control in this conversation.

What you see is a level of honesty that Mutzrein is not willing to face up to.

[OneLight]

What is there not to agree on?

Trinity

1 John 5:6-8

This is He who came by water and blood

[Kansasdad]

So Roman Catholics are 'Fundamentalists."

I'll bet most 'Fundamentalists would be surprised to learn THAT!

He HE

Actually fundamentalism has been defines for a very very long time. We have the Apostles Creed. It's very purpose is to define the very fundamentals of Christianity. Those fundamentals have never changed.

God bless,

K.D.

[MeCajunboy]

What is there not to agree on?

Trinity

1 John 5:6-8

This is He who came by water and blood