Slain in the Spirit!

[stan4257]

Great point Ovedya! What I wanted to ask is how can one be absolutly sure its the Holy Spirit speaking and not their own heart? I think the only way to confirm something would be to say well I think this is what God is saying but let me confirm it through Scripture. God bless and Merry Christmas to all. Your brother in Christ, matthew

Brother, by drawing near to God. the sheep know the Shepherds voice, do then not? You already know your own voice. Now you need to know Gods voice as well, so you can tell the difference. What else would Jesus be talking about?

OneLight

I think several of us are talking about the same thing but approaching it from different angles.

The Holy Spirit, the Word of God, the voice of Jesus Christ will never be in conflict one with the other. That would be impossible.

And the fruits of the spirit in our lives are tangible physical evidence from which we know that we are not deceived. There is no need to prove anything or argue about anything. Just do an honest, personal audit. No need to tell anybody else the results.

Does the way I speak and behave and think and what I do show clear evidence of love, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control? Great if it does. Do something about it if it does not.

Because if the Holy Spirit, the Word of God and the voice of Jesus Christ is not changing our lives then we are probably being misled by something else.

[Phil.2:12]

Well I believe with God, all things are possible, but when someone can provide scripture from the bible where people are slain in the spirit as in some denominational churches, then I will believe it. If some of the churches didn't have catchers standing behind people when they fell over backwards, there would be a few neck head and back injuries., I would imagine.............Sorry but I am a strong doubter.

And, Eric, I was also a strong doubter. Not only in the matter of being "slain in the Spirit" but also being "filled with the Spirit". As a Southern Baptist, I was taught that both of these views were not "Scriptural" and therefore constituted false doctrine. I was quick to respond to any mention of either view, showing the person expressing such views that they couldn't possibility be part of Scripture and I even used many verses from Scripture to prove my point.

Then, one day in my study, when I was holding a pity party because of my bleak circumstances and blaming my Heavenly Father for my current situation, something quite strange happened. I said that He had promised me an abundant life if I would accept His Son as my Savior and the life I was now leading was far from an abundant life, no matter how you viewed it. If this was the best He could do, I wasn't sure that I wanted this bleak life that I was currently leading, I had been better off, materially and physically, when I was a sinner without Jesus and if this was the best He could do, I wasn't sure I cared for this life any more.

Well, He politely told me that I did not have all that He could give me, that my life should be much better than I was then living. So I told Him that I wanted whatever He had to give me that I had not received. My Heavenly Father proceeded to baptize me in the Holy Spirit and then He graced me with His language. So there I am, a Southern Baptist pastor, leaning back in my chair in my study, newly filled with the Holy Spirit and praising God in a language I had never studied, let alone become fluent in. What an odd scene!

My life did pick up almost immediately. Within 3 months my Father had given me a job with a good income and my life went from the pits to the pinnacle. I've never been sorry over the gift my Father gave me that September day in 1983, nor for the precious gift of my prayer language. But, I was still very skeptical over the whole "slain in the Spirit" phenomena that I had seen ocurring, now that I was moving in Pentecostal circles (my Southern Baptist circles didn't take kindly to either my Baptism in the Holy Spirit or my prayer language). It would be years after my Holy Spirit baptism before I actually experienced what it was like to be slain in the Spirit. A lady preacher, Elaine Holmer, was holding a conference in Chatanooga, TN that my wife wanted to attend and I tagged along. I went forward for prayer and while Elaine prayed, I felt my knees beginning to buckle and the next thing I knew, I was horizonal on the floor. Elaine did not try to push me down, a favorate trick of many a preacher, but simply gently laid her hands on my head and when she was done praying, I was on the floor.

This skeptic knows first hand that being "slain in the Spirit" when done by God, not by man, is a true, genuine spiritual experience that is indeed a glorious experience. However, I fully recognize that most of the "slain in the Spirit'' experiences we see today are the results of manipulations by man and are not from God. We dare not throw out the baby with the bath water, for God truly is in some of the "slain in the Spirit" experiences that are happening today.

You may very well challenge my personal experiences by asking for Scripture to back up my personal experiences and, of course I won't be able to show any since the Bible is not about my personal journey, but are instructions from God that are applied generally to mankind. The Scriptures that have been quoted (and have been rejected out of hand) testify that God does engage in the affairs of men, even to the point that they may very well find themselves horizonal before Almighty God. Because of my Southern Baprist background, my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit and what He can (and does) do in the lives of ordinary folk are that more meaningful. They are indelibly embedded in my mind and are proof to me that the Word of God, as it relates to the ministry of the Holy Spirit, is dead on. There is no false doctrine within the experiences the Holy Spirit has shown me, but rather an enlightening as to the true ministry of the Third Person of the Trinity, thr Holy Spirit.

[Candi770]

Well I believe with God, all things are possible, but when someone can provide scripture from the bible where people are slain in the spirit as in some denominational churches, then I will believe it. If some of the churches didn't have catchers standing behind people when they fell over backwards, there would be a few neck head and back injuries., I would imagine.............Sorry but I am a strong doubter.

And, Eric, I was also a strong doubter. Not only in the matter of being "slain in the Spirit" but also being "filled with the Spirit". As a Southern Baptist, I was taught that both of these views were not "Scriptural" and therefore constituted false doctrine. I was quick to respond to any mention of either view, showing the person expressing such views that they couldn't possibility be part of Scripture and I even used many verses from Scripture to prove my point.

Then, one day in my study, when I was holding a pity party because of my bleak circumstances and blaming my Heavenly Father for my current situation, something quite strange happened. I said that He had promised me an abundant life if I would accept His Son as my Savior and the life I was now leading was far from an abundant life, no matter how you viewed it. If this was the best He could do, I wasn't sure that I wanted this bleak life that I was currently leading, I had been better off, materially and physically, when I was a sinner without Jesus and if this was the best He could do, I wasn't sure I cared for this life any more.

Well, He politely told me that I did not have all that He could give me, that my life should be much better than I was then living. So I told Him that I wanted whatever He had to give me that I had not received. My Heavenly Father proceeded to baptize me in the Holy Spirit and then He graced me with His language. So there I am, a Southern Baptist pastor, leaning back in my chair in my study, newly filled with the Holy Spirit and praising God in a language I had never studied, let alone become fluent in. What an odd scene!

My life did pick up almost immediately. Within 3 months my Father had given me a job with a good income and my life went from the pits to the pinnacle. I've never been sorry over the gift my Father gave me that September day in 1983, nor for the precious gift of my prayer language. But, I was still very skeptical over the whole "slain in the Spirit" phenomena that I had seen ocurring, now that I was moving in Pentecostal circles (my Southern Baptist circles didn't take kindly to either my Baptism in the Holy Spirit or my prayer language). It would be years after my Holy Spirit baptism before I actually experienced what it was like to be slain in the Spirit. A lady preacher, Elaine Holmer, was holding a conference in Chatanooga, TN that my wife wanted to attend and I tagged along. I went forward for prayer and while Elaine prayed, I felt my knees beginning to buckle and the next thing I knew, I was horizonal on the floor. Elaine did not try to push me down, a favorate trick of many a preacher, but simply gently laid her hands on my head and when she was done praying, I was on the floor.

This skeptic knows first hand that being "slain in the Spirit" when done by God, not by man, is a true, genuine spiritual experience that is indeed a glorious experience. However, I fully recognize that most of the "slain in the Spirit'' experiences we see today are the results of manipulations by man and are not from God. We dare not throw out the baby with the bath water, for God truly is in some of the "slain in the Spirit" experiences that are happening today.

You may very well challenge my personal experiences by asking for Scripture to back up my personal experiences and, of course I won't be able to show any since the Bible is not about my personal journey, but are instructions from God that are applied generally to mankind. The Scriptures that have been quoted (and have been rejected out of hand) testify that God does engage in the affairs of men, even to the point that they may very well find themselves horizonal before Almighty God. Because of my Southern Baprist background, my personal experiences with the Holy Spirit and what He can (and does) do in the lives of ordinary folk are that more meaningful. They are indelibly embedded in my mind and are proof to me that the Word of God, as it relates to the ministry of the Holy Spirit, is dead on. There is no false doctrine within the experiences the Holy Spirit has shown me, but rather an enlightening as to the true ministry of the Third Person of the Trinity, thr Holy Spirit.

Thank you.

Candi770

[damo1]

damo1

to matthew 4.4

god bless you my friend for your honesty and i hope i can hear of your personal thoughts i have already been reading the last sevral posts on page 7

i am going to be moving to canberra so i will not be near a computer for 3 days but when i get back i will be able to log on and check my in comming emails and what is being said in this topic as my friend has two computers that are on line as its going to take until the 10th of jan for me to get internet service from my granny flat also i will be over seas for two weeks in the phillippines as my partner is a pastor in the phillippines as we will be filling out some paper work for me to live in the phillippines and making preperations for our wedding but i will be able to use the inter net caffes computers were my partner goes so i will be able to respond to you and also see what has been said in your topic

if i may recommend a book if you have a christian book store in your country this book really talks on what god did in this small church in mexico and how this pastor was ready to walk away from his calling and his ministry he lived in the church with his wife and 1 child and he only had 8 old ladys as his members during the night the church was their home and threw the day it was a place were people can come and be prayed for and hear the word preached

the book is called holy spirit i hunger for you when revival hit this church the pastor had people from sevral diffrent churches comming to see if it was fake he also had sevral proffessors who were christians and had experiance in this and he also invited others who were skeptical to come see for them selves if what god is doing in his church is fake

my pastor read this book twice and also preached on what he thought about the book and the revival that happend in mexico the pastor is a spanish pastor from a poor family his church grew from only 8 old ladys to over 4thousand as he also was told to stand in one of the harshest neighbourhoods and preach to the drug dealers and the prostitues and the criminals and who ever was led to him by the holy spirit as i said this man was ready to walk away as he was with the aog church and every time he went to the pastors meetings in his village he would almost be ashamed he never said much but listend what god was doing in the other churches then one day he made an apoint ment with out telling his wife and the head guy of the aog church sat him down and talked with him

i would recomend this book you can also write to this man and he will respond to you and he too will be happy to ask all your questions

my church is also not perfect matthew when my pastor took over this church it was very dead it had a lot of problems no one was being discipled no one was being encouraged to use their gifts when a new christian gave their heart to god he or she had no home fellowship group to go to as this is were a new brother or sister in the lord grows and this is were you are encouraged and taught how to walk in the gifts god has given you

i also senced this when i looked at this church as the old pastor had full control the old pastor was even protttective of his leaders he would not let them speak up for them selves or move in their gifts the pastor had the last say

i have seen familys leave i have seen gifted men and women walk right out the door were god would send or direct people to this church by next sunday the ones who came to look at this church found another church this church also had no love it belived in religon more than alowing people move freely and experiance christ the way a person should experiance him

i also left the church and i said to my friend greg who is the pastor know of christian out reach center when the church gets its act together and you get a new pastor let me know and i will come back and support the new pastor but while this pastor is hear i will not alow my self to be wounded like this or be involved with a church that is dead

greg also was looking at leaving as he only came to church when he wanted to as he worked in mental health

well the old pastor left last year and Greg and his wife were prayed for and the role was passed on to greg as he was ordained and greg is being supported

Greg new if this church was to be were it should be a lot of repenting needed to be done that means every one praying not just the pastrol ship and the leadership team and those involved in the prayer meetings on monday nights

my pastor came looking for me as i was settled with the aog church in the farming community i live in and asked if i wanted to come back and he openly said sorry i said you should not be saying sorry the old pastor should have followed people up he should have also called for a meeting and openly said sorry to those that were wounded instead he did nothing but i said ok i accept your open appology as he said when you told me i will come back when this church gets a new pastor hear i am i am the new pastor and i would like you to be involved in what god is going to do know in this church

we honestly cried out to god matthew we allowed the holy spirit to have his way in us matthew their was a lot of the world in this church god had no say or no control god was put in a box and so was the holy spirit we even fasted and we did this as a group and took turns praying over the church and praying for our selves

when we get people from out of town fellowshipping with us for the day we get a letter and pastor Greg reads this to the whole church and they are all very encouraging one lady said she never felt what she felt in our church as we welcome the holy spirit before we even have worship or communion or the word is preached and we alow the holy spirit to have his way my pastor even says this is gods church not mine or mans doctrine

so when i read what you left in your post for me brother let me tell you i hear what you are saying but no one is perfect for us to have healthy churches it has to be up to the pastor and up to the people committed in what ever church you are settled in yet what god has done in my church christian out reach center he can do this in your church and in anyones church though the pastor has to be willing to do some honest soul searching like my pastor did

and you have to be willing to alow god to have full control and not put a stop to what god wants to do among his people or put the holy spirit in a box jesus is the head of the church not me or my pastor or the leaders in my church

Acts 19 miracles glorify christ

11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of paul

12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick and the diseases left them

and the evil spirits went out of them

Acts 11

17 if therefore god gave them the same gift as he gave us when we believed on the lord jesus christ

who was i that i could with stand god

i hear what you are saying and let me tell you brother my pastor is one of these men who does not alow false teachings to sneek into this church or do we ignore what is said in gods living word brother we also fast now as a church every 2 months and its amazing to see my brothers and sisters doing this in unity

this took time to happen in our church one thing i have learnt as i said to you i do not point the finger or sit in judgment on what is happening in another church

i thought i would share this to you once were this church of mine was dead its know alive brother

and we let new members seek god at their own pace as we belive in being mentors when it comes to a new brother or a new sister in the lord

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[matthew4:4]

Thank you for your testimony Phil 2:12. I hope that God continues to work abundantly through your life!

I guess you would agree with me then on the fact that it isn't biblical, meaning there are no signs of it in the Bible. Thats the thing that really bothers me. I realize the Holy Spirit reveals to us all truth. Thats absolutely true but some of you seem to believe that He has revealed this to be true within your lives. I believe that He has revealed to me that it is a false practice and I have been to groups where many times afterwards they perform this practice. It has always made me feel uneasy. Who can say who is really following the Spirit's guidance?

Remember what Paul and Peter talked about. The fall of the Church, the fact that many people even the elect will be deceived. Think about the fact that there may be many things that we think are true yet are false. We are the elect. I don't consider myself to know the absolute true doctrine of Christ. This is why there is separation in the Church. The apostacy is making that gap larger and larger. Some false doctrines seem obvious but some may not be so easy to detect. I know I must take this into consideration as well. It does seem that we are close to the tribulation brothers. May God bless you all. Your brother in Christ,

matthew

Edited December 25, 2007 by matthew4:4

[Phil.2:12]

Thank you for your testimony Phil 2:12. I hope that God continues to work abundantly through your life!

I guess you would agree with me then on the fact that it isn't biblical, meaning there are no signs of it in the Bible. Thats the thing that really bothers me. I realize the Holy Spirit reveals to us all truth. Thats absolutely true but some of you seem to believe that He has revealed this to be true within your lives. I believe that He has revealed to me that it is a false practice and I have been to groups where many times afterwards they perform this practice. It has always made me feel uneasy. Who can say who is really following the Spirit's guidance?

Remember what Paul and Peter talked about. The fall of the Church, the fact that many people even the elect will be deceived. Think about the fact that there may be many things that we think are true yet are false. We are the elect. I don't consider myself to know the absolute true doctrine of Christ. This is why there is separation in the Church. The apostacy is making that gap larger and larger. Some false doctrines seem obvious but some may not be so easy to detect. I know I must take this into consideration as well. It does seem that we are close to the tribulation brothers. May God bless you all. Your brother in Christ,

matthew

Hi Matthew 4:4.

I know that the lack of chapter and verse proof of something that happens within a believer's life can be frustrating, especially to the doubters that never believed such far-fetched things can happen because it destroys their view of Scripture. I am reminded of John 21:24-25

This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books rthat should be written. Amen (KJJV).

I suppose that the truth the Holy Spirit will lead us into would have been found in those things Jesus said and did that never made it into print. It is best to remember the admonition of the apostle John in his closing words, lest we hastily throw out the teachings of the Holy Spirit because we cannot find just exactly what He is doing in the Word of God that we have in written form. Personally, I tend to give the Holy Spirit the room He needs to teach me what He wants me to see. Invariably, in studying some passage of Scripture, the Holy Spirit will reveal to me that this passage is the proof I needed to believe in what He showed me earlier when I was searching for a support passage on a truth He revealed to me, only to find none by book, chapter, and verse.

[stan4257]

This skeptic knows first hand that being "slain in the Spirit" when done by God, not by man, is a true, genuine spiritual experience that is indeed a glorious experience. However, I fully recognize that most of the "slain in the Spirit'' experiences we see today are the results of manipulations by man and are not from God. We dare not throw out the baby with the bath water, for God truly is in some of the "slain in the Spirit" experiences that are happening today.

Great testimony Phil.2:12., and I have no doubt, none at all, that the events you describe actually happened. Where we might interpret things differently is in how you add explanations to these facts. That does not mean that your interpretations are wrong, but it does mean that when you give explanations for what happened in your life not everybody will agree.

Referring to the so called 'slain in the spirit' there is not doubt at all that people's minds can be influenced by others, even to the extent that they go into a trance like state. That happens frequently in medical procedures that have nothing to do with the church, and on many other occasions, again which have nothing to do with the church.

Nor is there the slightest doubt that a person who has been 'slain in the spirit' feels good afterwards. that, too, is a common experience outside of the church.

'

And finally, there is no doubt that healing can occur by suggestion that is accepted by a mind that is temporally under control, by the suggestions of another person. That experience, too, is not confined to within a church.

Which all adds up to the fact that you had a great experience and God bless you.

The challenge, and in your post you refer to this, is that the very same procedures can be used by those with intentions that are not guided by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it is blatantly obvious but often it is not, that these procedures called 'slain in the spirit' are not initiated by the Spirit of God but to further the ambitions of an individual.

What we have here are two things, a method and a motive, the first about which I think there could be no argument that it works. The second is a matter for very careful consideration by loving Christians.

Which adds up, I think, that we agree.

The thing is not to believe that a God given consequence in one circumstance means that it will always be so, or to confuse 'feelings' with facts.

It was really supportive to read a post so carefully balanced as yours.

[OneLight]

Satan has a slick way of trying to duplicate what God does. Whatever God has, Satan wants. If Satan can cause confusion within the Body, he will do so. All Satan has to do is to implant doubt into the minds of someone to hinder the working if the Holy Spirit. This is why I keep insisting that we become so close to God that we recognize the Holy Spirit moving in our lives and to be able to point out the influence that is not of God.

I have said before that I have been in services where you can see those being prayed for being pushed. I don't remember if I mentioned it or not, but this also happened to me. These are the makings of man, not God. That which I know was from God was when I had hands gently laid on me for prayer and I became very week to the point of having to grab someone so I would not fall. No pushing at all.

Pray and ask God for the truth in this matter. As mentioned before, there is no written word to back up what God has done in my life. Either I am a lier or I speak the truth. Ask God to show you which it is.

Your Brother In Christ,

OneLight

[matthew4:4]

Satan has a slick way of trying to duplicate what God does. Whatever God has, Satan wants. If Satan can cause confusion within the Body, he will do so. All Satan has to do is to implant doubt into the minds of someone to hinder the working if the Holy Spirit. This is why I keep insisting that we become so close to God that we recognize the Holy Spirit moving in our lives and to be able to point out the influence that is not of God.

I have said before that I have been in services where you can see those being prayed for being pushed. I don't remember if I mentioned it or not, but this also happened to me. These are the makings of man, not God. That which I know was from God was when I had hands gently laid on me for prayer and I became very week to the point of having to grab someone so I would not fall. No pushing at all.

Pray and ask God for the truth in this matter. As mentioned before, there is no written word to back up what God has done in my life. Either I am a lier or I speak the truth. Ask God to show you which it is.

Your Brother In Christ,

OneLight

I believe your testimony OneLight but even if that same exact thing happened to me(which something like it did) I still wouldn't say it was from God. I had a woman preacher/prophet/tongue speaker/whatever put her hand on my head and pray. And as she did this I felt a warmth come over my body but the human mind is very powerful. I had already been thinking about it so much to the point that I was the one initiating it. It's like when someone who hates needles goes to get a shot and before the doc even touches them they say oww! lol. I psyched myself out.

Also, I do realize that jesus did many other things that we don't know about. Obviously we don't have scripture covering everyday of His three year ministry but I believe He did many other similar things. Great things but probably the same because if there were something different don't you think that would be included in the scriptures? Don't you think something as important as people falling out of nowhere from the power of Jesus would be included? I think that would be a pretty important detail. Another thing I don't like is that when I've watched a pastor do it, he seemed to be in total control. He made who he wanted fall or made the whole group fall at one point. It doesn't seem spirit-controlled or atleast from what I have seen personally. Hmmm. Well, I'm gonna do some more thinking now. Tell me what you think. Your brother in Christ, matthew

[OneLight]

I believe your testimony OneLight but even if that same exact thing happened to me(which something like it did) I still wouldn't say it was from God. I had a woman preacher/prophet/tongue speaker/whatever put her hand on my head and pray. And as she did this I felt a warmth come over my body but the human mind is very powerful. I had already been thinking about it so much to the point that I was the one initiating it. It's like when someone who hates needles goes to get a shot and before the doc even touches them they say oww! lol. I psyched myself out.

Also, I do realize that jesus did many other things that we don't know about. Obviously we don't have scripture covering everyday of His three year ministry but I believe He did many other similar things. Great things but probably the same because if there were something different don't you think that would be included in the scriptures? Don't you think something as important as people falling out of nowhere from the power of Jesus would be included? I think that would be a pretty important detail. Another thing I don't like is that when I've watched a pastor do it, he seemed to be in total control. He made who he wanted fall or made the whole group fall at one point. It doesn't seem spirit-controlled or atleast from what I have seen personally. Hmmm. Well, I'm gonna do some more thinking now. Tell me what you think. Your brother in Christ, matthew

Brother Matthew,

I'll try to do this in the same order you posted.

First, you may be giving yourself too much credit and not enough to the Holy Spirit when you mention "And as she did this I felt a warmth come over my body but the human mind is very powerful. I had already been thinking about it so much to the point that I was the one initiating it. " First, the Holy Spirit is far more powerful then our mind will ever be. Secondly, God will not do anything to you that you do not want to happen. Just because you wanted a blessing from God does not mean that you willed what happened into existence.

About your second paragraph. Jesus teachings and the working of the Holy Spirit did not happen at the same time. Remember that Jesus had to go to the Father before He could even send us the Holy Spirit. I understand your concern, but I must ask ... how can someone write of something happening before it happens? There is prophesy, but the Holy Spirit, and His ministry, is not prophesy.

As I suggested. Do not take my word for what the Holy Spirit is doing. Go directly to God and ask Him. The Holy Spirit will teach you the truth of the matter. Remember, there are many out there that teach a lie from Satan, making it look like it is from God. This is why I emphasise that we become so close to God that we can recognize a stranger and not follow them.

OneLight