why G-D made me belong to dragon

[Guest man]

Who were the Kings from the East?

How did they know to come to "the Star?"

How did they know "the Star" signified the birth of The King?

Any open minded person who can read the text of the New Testament would be forced to come to the conclusion that they were astrologers. They had been left instruction to look for a specific astrological alignment and when they saw it, they would know the King had come. Where would they have obtained this instruction if not From Daniel or one of the Other Hebrew prophets?

Probably from the same source that told them not to go back the way they came.

Matthew 2

12 Then, being divinely warned in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed for their own country another way.

[OneLight]

If you want scripture that says "Daniel was an astrologer," You will not find it. You will likewise find no scripture saying that you exist, but I assume you do.

Just as I thought, you can not provide scripture to back your claim, so it is man made.

If you are interested in studying the zodiac and researching the references I cited, I will give them to you again. D. James Kennedy, "the true Zodiac." Hal Lindsey, "The kings of the East." If you do not have initiative to research the subject for yourself, you are obviously not very interested in obtaining the truth.

I trust Hal Lindsey enough that if he says Persian tradition holds an astrological alignment will foretell the coming of the King, or Messiah; I will take his word that is indeed what Persian tradition holds.

I once thought Hal Lindsey was a prophet with his prophesy of the rapture coming in, if I remember correctly, 1984. He proved himself a false prophet, and if it were in the OT times, he would of been stoned to death. He is counting his blessings that we are now under grace. Still, it is my personal belief that he is a man full of knowledge that twisted his knowledge to fit his beliefs.

It is quite obvious from scripture that Daniel was taught the ways of the sooth sayers, magicians, and astrologers. Daniel merely understood the true meaning of what he saw in the stars.

Heresy! Daniel was a man of God, full of His Spirit. It was through His Spirit that we was able to explain dreams. Allow me to remind you of scripture. "Inasmuch as an excellent spirit, knowledge, understanding, interpreting dreams, solving riddles, and explaining enigmas were found in this Daniel" He was not any of what you claim him to be. You have alread admitted that you can not find scripture to back your claim.

I have a series of questions for you. I am sure you will not answer them, but I will pose them any way.

Surely, you can go to the scriptures and find an answer for them. You seem to think that no outside sources may be used to draw logical conclusion based on the framework put forth in the scriptures.

Who were the Kings from the East?

How did they know to come to "the Star?"

How did they know "the Star" signified the birth of The King?

Any open minded person who can read the text of the New Testament would be forced to come to the conclusion that they were astrologers. They had been left instruction to look for a specific astrological alignment and when they saw it, they would know the King had come. Where would they have obtained this instruction if not From Daniel or one of the Other Hebrew prophets?

If you want concrete proof Daniel left the command to look for the Messiah, you will not find it. However, there is more than enough evidence for the logical person to conclude that he, or one of his friends did. It is a much better explanation that you will be able to provide for the three questions I asked you.

What does Matthew say?

Matthew 2:1-12

Wise Men from the East

Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying,

[nebula]

If I may -

About the Constellations:

As someone pointed out, there are Scriptures stating the stars being set as signs:

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

- Genesis 1:14 in King James Version of The Bible

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

- Luke 21:25-27 in the King James Version of The Bible

I have seen this from another source (forget the author), showing how the Constellations that make up what is called the Zodiak actually tell the Gospel story.

There is nothing New Age about this, as these "signs in the stars" tell a story of the glory of God and have nothing to do with soothsaying or fortune-telling. The stars are God's story, not your story.

Besides, why would the Lord not set the stars in a certain pattern for a certain reason?

Seasons

The Constellations appear at certain times in certain seasons - this is true. But it is a matter of keeping time with the calendar - in the short term anyway. In the long-term, the positions will be changed as the Earth's tilt shifts and other factors. But that is another story. As far as the Almanac goes, the stars just help keep time - just like using the Constellations for navigation is a matter of using them as reference points.

Daniel

Chances are he was made to learn the ways of the other wise men - just as we are forced to learn about evolution and Freud and other things we find that go against our faith. It does not mean he practiced astrology the way the wise men of Babylon did, as I am sure he would have found severe contradictions to his faith.

However, astrology was the only astronomy that existed in ancient times, and we do know that the Pleiades and Orion at least are mentioned in the book of Job. So, there is reason to conclude that not all of it was forbidden (I mean, if God mentions the Pleiades and Orion...?)

Job 38:31 - Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion? 32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

The Wise Men who worshiped Jesus

No one knows what that star was they followed. Was it angels? Was it the glory of God? Was it Jupiter crossing Leo (or something like that)?

Really, we have no way of knowing. The Bible doesn't clarify. Perhaps the Lord gave them a sign in the sky they would understand. He does control the Heavens after all - why not use the stars to speak to the nations, for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear?

But again, this is not the astrology we know - setting your life by the stars. The stars are God's story, not your story.

[OneLight]

Knowing when certain systems will be placed in the heavens is not the same as astrology. The word Mazzaroth is found only once in Job, pertaining to the Constellations. Nobody is refuting that the stars have a purpose, only that they are not to be used to try and foretell the future, or dictate what a person is to be like. They guide the sailors at night and the hunters also. They allow the farmers to know that the planting season is upon them. Telling the future in any form is a sin against God.

The New age that I spoke of is exactly what is being brought into our churches today, astrology being part of it.

[nebula]

Not arguing you, OneLight - it just seems there's a lot of confusion going on with this thread.

[OneLight]

Not arguing you, OneLight - it just seems there's a lot of confusion going on with this thread.

Sorry if my words are harsh in manner tonight ... please forgive me if they do. I have been dealing with this in my personal life, for real, with family members and it is so easy to twist the truth, and make a lie seem like the truth, if one does not know the bible. Again, sorry Neb.

[ayin jade]

I have always questioned "how" we are supposed to see signs in the skies

Comet Shoemaker-Levy split apart and crashed into Jupiter in many pieces. This was significant enough that astronomers were watching around the world as well as many lay people who were interested in this big event. What is interesting is the date this coincided with. That was quite a prominent sign in our modern sky.

Comets were often regarded as signs in the heavens. Signs are astronomical events, not astrological mysticism. The wise men could easily have studied the stars and known that a nova, or comet, or whatever the star of bethlehem actually was, was nothing more than some new object in the sky. Since the Judean world was expecting the birth of the messiah around that time, many people were watching for a sign of His arrival. Something new in the sky would be just that. Nothing astrological in that.

Astrology is divination. Not of God.

[hr.jr.]

This is what Isaiah had to say about astrologers...

Isaiah 47

13 You are wearied in the multitude of your counsels; let now the astrologers, the stargazers,

and the monthly prognosticators stand up and save you from what shall come upon you.

14 Behold, they shall be as stubble, the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves

from the power of the flame; it shall not be a coal to be warmed by, nor a fire to sit before!

"prognosticator" This is warning about those who seek to tell the future from the stars. The Zodiac was created to tell one and only one story.

[hr.jr.]

Who were the Kings from the East?

How did they know to come to "the Star?"

How did they know "the Star" signified the birth of The King?

Any open minded person who can read the text of the New Testament would be forced to come to the conclusion that they were astrologers. They had been left instruction to look for a specific astrological alignment and when they saw it, they would know the King had come. Where would they have obtained this instruction if not From Daniel or one of the Other Hebrew prophets?

Probably from the same source that told them not to go back the way they came.

Matthew 2

12 Then, being divinely warned in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed for their own country another way.

Chapter 2, verse 2, says "we have seen his star." So much for the theory they were told. They were star gazers.

Note about this passage in Dake says "Greek" Magoi, wise men.....they uttered prophecies, explained omens, interpreted dreams, and practiced divination."

Daniel 2:2, 48; 4:9

It only makes sense that if the kings from the East came because they saw the star, they were looking for the star. The Magoi were astrologers among othe things. Look at the definition of Magoi and you will have your answer.

[hr.jr.]

If you want scripture that says "Daniel was an astrologer," You will not find it. You will likewise find no scripture saying that you exist, but I assume you do.

Just as I thought, you can not provide scripture to back your claim, so it is man made.

If you are interested in studying the zodiac and researching the references I cited, I will give them to you again. D. James Kennedy, "the true Zodiac." Hal Lindsey, "The kings of the East." If you do not have initiative to research the subject for yourself, you are obviously not very interested in obtaining the truth.

I trust Hal Lindsey enough that if he says Persian tradition holds an astrological alignment will foretell the coming of the King, or Messiah; I will take his word that is indeed what Persian tradition holds.

I once thought Hal Lindsey was a prophet with his prophesy of the rapture coming in, if I remember correctly, 1984. He proved himself a false prophet, and if it were in the OT times, he would of been stoned to death. He is counting his blessings that we are now under grace. Still, it is my personal belief that he is a man full of knowledge that twisted his knowledge to fit his beliefs.

It is quite obvious from scripture that Daniel was taught the ways of the sooth sayers, magicians, and astrologers. Daniel merely understood the true meaning of what he saw in the stars.

Heresy! Daniel was a man of God, full of His Spirit. It was through His Spirit that we was able to explain dreams. Allow me to remind you of scripture. "Inasmuch as an excellent spirit, knowledge, understanding, interpreting dreams, solving riddles, and explaining enigmas were found in this Daniel" He was not any of what you claim him to be. You have alread admitted that you can not find scripture to back your claim.

I have a series of questions for you. I am sure you will not answer them, but I will pose them any way.

Surely, you can go to the scriptures and find an answer for them. You seem to think that no outside sources may be used to draw logical conclusion based on the framework put forth in the scriptures.

Who were the Kings from the East?

How did they know to come to "the Star?"

How did they know "the Star" signified the birth of The King?

Any open minded person who can read the text of the New Testament would be forced to come to the conclusion that they were astrologers. They had been left instruction to look for a specific astrological alignment and when they saw it, they would know the King had come. Where would they have obtained this instruction if not From Daniel or one of the Other Hebrew prophets?

If you want concrete proof Daniel left the command to look for the Messiah, you will not find it. However, there is more than enough evidence for the logical person to conclude that he, or one of his friends did. It is a much better explanation that you will be able to provide for the three questions I asked you.

What does Matthew say?

Matthew 2:1-12

Wise Men from the East

Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying,