Miraculous Gifts

[OneLight]

That is my point! The Holy Spirit moves in us when He wants us to use our gifts. He does not wait for prayer! Even the word tells us that there are times when we know not what to pray for. If He waited for our prayers, things would never get done in time ...

If we have the gift of discernment, do He wait for us to pray and ask for the gift to be used or does He move within us to show us which spirit is behind a matter? Does He wait for prayer to prophesy or does He move within us whit His word? The Holy Spirit gives gifts to those who He knows will use them according to His will.

God does not wait for us to ask Him to do something. He does it when He wants it done. The scripture I provided shows just that. It is by His will that all things from God comes about, not ours. Your theology puts us ahead of God, and we are never that!

In His Love,

OneLight

my theology? i don't believe i tried to interpret anything.

i just asked you some questions.

Maybe my choice of words are not correct, but you mentioned that the only way to request anything to happen is by prayer, and I was trying to show you that He works without prayer. Using the gifts He gives us is not done through prayer, but by His moving in our spirit. Only the Holy Spirit can give us the manifestation of the gift. Just because we have a gift does not mean that we can use it whenever we want. It is by His will that these gifts are used.

[mead]

100 % still in effect as they were given through the Holy Ghost, spoken by Christ.

we just need to remember how they are in operation.... BY WAY OF THE HOLY GHOST, AS THE SPIRIT OF GOD SEES FIT....

we can not be a one day a week Christian, and expect the Holy Spirit to work through us, we can not expect to put our trust in the almighty dollar and have the Holy Spirit do all the rest of the work.....

Christ told us how... He told the Apostles how.... and told them the results....

the question is, not so much as to whether or not the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are in effect today, but rather, ARE WE WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE?????

what price are you willing to pay?????? I do not mean that the Gifts are up for sale, i mean what price are we willing to pay to follow Christ????

there was a very rich man, that asked what it would take, and he was told that he had to keep all the commandments, and he said, that he had done so even as far back as his youth, even before he had become a man..... and then he was told to go sell everything and give it all to the poor..... this saddened him, for he was one of great wealth..... the story did not finish, he may have been saddened, but it does not actually say whether or not he did or did not sell his belongings and give them away..... or if he was even willing to....

Abraham, was told to give up his son, to kill him, he had no idea at the beginning as to whether or not God was going to provide him with an out, or whether God was going to grant him with another son.... Abraham trusted God in what He told him to do, for Abraham knew God would be faithful in His promise....

Christ promised us certain things, the promises that were given have never been revoked, however, there are conditions to those promises, the conditions rest on us..... are we willing to pay the price of those conditions?

I watched a video yesterday, one i have watched several times before, one that helps me remember that we in the free world, westerners, freemen, tend to take for granted things that other brothers and sisters in Christ fight and die for day in and day out.......

every year, there is approximately 160,000 Christians martyred for Christ... yea, thats right, 160 thousand...... how is it we do not hear about this on the local news? well, probably to help keep us so weak in the Spirit that we do not feel/think we need to spend more then a couple hours a week in a "worship" service, and most of the time there we are just warming a pew...... if we would stop warming pews and start building callouses on our knees we might just see more results in the workings of the Gifts of the Spirit manifesting.

look at the bellies of Americans... (mine included) how many 50 year old men are able to run a mile with out much trouble? How many 6' tall men are 150 - 160 pounds or less? how many have a waist that is under 34? this country has become so lazy that we can not even stand to think about letting some of the younger people go to war, we have taken what we have as being blessed.... well, yes, we have been blessed, but since we no longer are truly serving the Lord, the blessings are going by the way side, and we are wondering what is going on. we do not understand why the prices of food has gone so high that some people that were living pretty well 10 years ago, are scraping just to make ends meet..... why? we got lazy and allowed our jobs to go out of country to people that will work for lots less.... people willing to work....

anyways, back to the regularly schedualed program......YES, THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT ARE IN OPERATION TODAY AS THEY WERE YESTERYEAR....

mike

ps, sorry, just got in from work, working the mid shift now.... and loving it....

Agrees, very nice, thank you for sharing.

[Axxman]

Well, I am not a cessationist, and neither am I a dispesationalist. I don't believe that god made different rules to suit people of different periods of time. However , because of globalisation, there is not the need for speaking in tongues, because the bible is avaiable in hundres of different languages, that's not to say the gift has'nt been given where God deems fit.

Hey eric...

Question...to use your phrase.. "I don't believe that god made different rules to suit people of different periods of time"...how does that square with the notion that people before the pouring out of the Spirit in Acts did NOT have these miraculous gifts? Clearly God has laid out different rules throughout mankinds history. The way God dealt with Adam and Eve was different than the way he dealt with the Israelites, from the way he dealt with the Early Church, to the way he deals with modern Christianity...and of course the radical difference between those and the end times. God's dealings with His people have radically changed from the days of walking in the Garden of Eden, to physically speaking and visiting people...to a pouring out of His Spirit at Pentecost...to a personal relationship through His word. I'd say the different periods of time have shown a natural and growing progression that has changed through different periods of time.

[eric]

Hi axxman,

I am not denying progression, that would be foolish of me, or we would still be burning witches at the stake. I am talking about God and his redemptive plan, which hasn't changes sive Adam blew it in the garden. God's plan to pour out his Sprit at pentesost wasn't a spur of the moment thing. The early prphets spoke of such things. In chapter 3 of the book of genesis, God told A&E what the world could expect as a result of their disobedience. God's redemptive plan is the same today as it was then, The way to salvation has never changed.

If you are obedient to God,s way of life, you live, if you are not you die. As it was in the beginning etc, etc. The rules to receive eternal life, have never been different, despite the dispensationalists.

e

[Axxman]

Hi axxman,

I am not denying progression, that would be foolish of me, or we would still be burning witches at the stake. I am talking about God and his redemptive plan, which hasn't changes sive Adam blew it in the garden. God's plan to pour out his Sprit at pentesost wasn't a spur of the moment thing. The early prphets spoke of such things. In chapter 3 of the book of genesis, God told A&E what the world could expect as a result of their disobedience. God's redemptive plan is the same today as it was then, The way to salvation has never changed.

If you are obedient to God,s way of life, you live, if you are not you die. As it was in the beginning etc, etc. The rules to receive eternal life, have never been different, despite the dispensationalists.

e

Well eric...I certainly can't disagree with any of that!

Perhaps I misunderstood the original point you were making...my bad bro!

[eric]

Lol Axx, that's okay I have to scroll back because if I didn't I would forget what I was talking about. The point I was trying to make, was gifting didn't necessarily begin at pentecost, it started from the beginning. It was the power of the sovereign God that enabled Moses to turn the rod into a snake, so why wouldn't He, by His grace,prevent people from employing His gifts to day, although progressively speaking, it's not so important., because we have the NT, which, spiritually speaking is Christ Himself............ along those lines anyway.

e

[truthbringer]

The debate as to whether or not the miraculous gifts are still in affect today has caused much controversy and division through out the centuries. The point of this thread is not to cause strife but to state what you hold and why you hold it. I have defined the three dominate views of what believers hold as far as whether or not they are still in affect. But first lets remember that irregardless of whether or not you hold/dont hold to one view or another, that the great gift we should have is love (1st Corinthians 13). So lets keep this a healthy and clean discussion. Please do not hijack this thread into a tongues only debate.

Cessationism - The position that the miraculous Spiritual gifts (speaking in tongues, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, intepretation of tongues, etc.) ceased with the closing of the Canon of scripture, the death of the last apostle (Early Church) or some time in the past. (1)

Semi-Continualist or Cautious Continualist - The position that some, not all, miraculous gifts are still in effect.

Continualist - The Position that all the miraculous gifts are still in effect and have been through church history.

Note: I realize not all believers hold these specific definitons. You might have a different view when it comes to these terms, if you do then post what you hold.

Burn

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1. http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm

All the gifts are still in operation today. Church history has, and still does prove it.

Edited September 22, 2008 by truthbringer

[Floatingaxe]

All spiritual gifts are available to the Church today, as they are given for the building up of the Church. As Jesus is still actively building it, they will be necessary until He returns for it, at the end of the age.

[TruthFirst]

All the Gifts are alive and well today.

The Gifts of the Father (God) in Romans 12

The Gifts of the Son in Ephesians 4

The Gifts of the Spirit 1 Corinthians 12

When Jesus came He divested Himself of all Power and Authority so that He could walk this earth truly as man.

Every miraculous thing that Jesus did was through the Holy Spirit working in Him. Thus Jesus the man with the fullness of the Spirit.

This was done for our example so that we could see and do the same as He did and even greater things again.

We can not say that Jesus was any different than us a mere human operating with the Gifts of the Spirit.

He did not speak in tongues, or interpret tongues or prophecy. (Prophecy = 1 step message from God, Tongues with interpretation = 2 step message from God)

Jesus' whole ministry was that of a Prophet. The very Word of god in the flesh. He was also considered Priest and King.

We should never fear to seek and exercise the Gifts. We have not been given a spirit of fear. Yes men do make mistakes and sometimes will mix his own

flesh into the workings of the Gifts. But God is aware of that and is also aware of our sincerity.

If there is no OX the through or stable is clean. Pv(14:4) In other words if you want a clean house or church don't invite the Spirit.

But if you do want the Spirit then be prepared to deal with immaturity, trial and error, etc. , a bit of a mess, that's why Prophets are to judge Prophets

in order to weed out the flesh. The Corinthians had their problems but nevertheless they did have the Gifts in full swing.

And even with the Gifts in operation Paul spoke to them as children. Imagine that.

Hope this helps.

[Floatingaxe]

All the Gifts are alive and well today.

The Gifts of the Father (God) in Romans 12

The Gifts of the Son in Ephesians 4

The Gifts of the Spirit 1 Corinthians 12

When Jesus came He divested Himself of all Power and Authority so that He could walk this earth truly as man.

Every miraculous thing that Jesus did was through the Holy Spirit working in Him. Thus Jesus the man with the fullness of the Spirit.

This was done for our example so that we could see and do the same as He did and even greater things again.

We can not say that Jesus was any different than us a mere human operating with the Gifts of the Spirit.

He did not speak in tongues, or interpret tongues or prophecy. (Prophecy = 1 step message from God, Tongues with interpretation = 2 step message from God)

Jesus' whole ministry was that of a Prophet. The very Word of god in the flesh. He was also considered Priest and King.

We should never fear to seek and exercise the Gifts. We have not been given a spirit of fear. Yes men do make mistakes and sometimes will mix his own

flesh into the workings of the Gifts. But God is aware of that and is also aware of our sincerity.

If there is no OX the through or stable is clean. Pv(14:4) In other words if you want a clean house or church don't invite the Spirit.

But if you do want the Spirit then be prepared to deal with immaturity, trial and error, etc. , a bit of a mess, that's why Prophets are to judge Prophets

in order to weed out the flesh. The Corinthians had their problems but nevertheless they did have the Gifts in full swing.

And even with the Gifts in operation Paul spoke to them as children. Imagine that.

Hope this helps.

Good post! Welcome to Worthy!