Heaven?

[irishcowboy]

When Christ comes back he will set up his kingdom on the Physical earth and it will be transformed back to the way it was before evil destroyed it.

So why do you think It was taught to our children that they will go to heaven?

I think it's because it sounds good, all warm and fuzzy. Have you ever noticed that at funerals, no matter what kind of life the deceased led, they are now in heaven, in a better place, God has called them home, or whatever?

Where did people who died in OT times go, before Jesus prepared the place for them?

not the funerals i have been to. preaching some one into heaven is a LDS thing.....

prior to Christ, people would go to the Bossom of Abraham if they were worthy.... if not, across the great chasim.....

as far as children,

well, there are split thoughts on this one......

some teach that the children fall under the covering of their parents until they reach the age of accountability....

others teach that all children are innocent until they reach the age of accountability.....

and I am sure there are other teachings..... none of which are actually covered in the Word as far as children.....

the best thing to do is just be ready.......

a lady friend of ours, had never been to church and has 4 children..... 8 year old boy, a 7 year old girl, and a 6 and 5 year old boy..... this lady was sick, with not just HIV, but with full blown AIDS....

the kids also had never been to church.... one day the 8 year old walks up to mom and says....Mom, you need to take us to church... cause if you dont take us to church then we will all go to hell and it will be your fault ......

(I did not quote the statement, but the statement is acccurate)

the mother asked a few people, and started going to a church that was close to their house, actually the first one that they could come to when they drive from the house....

the first week at church, she bawled when she heard the plan of salvation. the second week, she accepted the Lord as her Savior and Lord. the fruit of her spirit, the fruits of her labors were very evident that she had received the Lord......

several weeks later, during a regularly sked appointment for her AIDS, the status of this visit was the Aids was not found, so further testing was done, and not only the Aids was not found, she was no longer even positive for HIV... the last time I asked about it, she was still totally clean, not just with drugs, but also with the HIV......

what gripped me was the child that had enough guts to tell his mother what lays ahead......

Raise the children in the Lord.....

mike

[mizzdy]

Have you ever noticed that at funerals, no matter what kind of life the deceased led, they are now in heaven, in a better place, God has called them home, or whatever?

Thats the way most funerals go, the person performing the funeral may not always say the person is in heaven but always is in a better place. Years ago when a brother in law died, not having believed in God nor His Son the minister went on to proclaim my bro was in heaven, sitting with Christ and having a nice long talk.

[arrowfromgod]

Often children are told that when you die, you go to Heaven. My whole life I believed that as well, That if I put my faith and trust in Jesus I would go to Heaven, and if any one rejects Christ, they would go to Hell.

I know when Jesus comes for the second time, we will be his people and he will be with us again once and for all , but where?

there are three heavens, during the Trib we are on this earth, during the 1000 years with Christ, we are on this earth, and after the battle of Gog and Magog, this earth will be made new, and the New Jerusalem will come down for us.

the dimensions of the New Jerusalem is just huge, almost like a cube in shape, or possible a piramid, i am not sure. have heard both.

we will be on this earth, but, it will be clean purged of all evil..... that is why anyone that is practicing immorallities will not have a place in the Kingdom..

mike

i hear ya mr mike ,,, an eng. told me that the earth couldnt support the size of it on its bed rock ,,, it would sink ,,, i said god can do what he wants and the laws of physics dont apply to him

[OneLight]

All from Revelation 21

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs.

That is about 1,500 cubic miles. The new earth will be able to hold such a city. It is amazing, given our knowledge and understanding, how big the new earth will be.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

not the funerals i have been to. preaching some one into heaven is a LDS thing.....

prior to Christ, people would go to the Bossom of Abraham if they were worthy.... if not, across the great chasim.....

as far as children,

well, there are split thoughts on this one......

some teach that the children fall under the covering of their parents until they reach the age of accountability....

others teach that all children are innocent until they reach the age of accountability.....

and I am sure there are other teachings..... none of which are actually covered in the Word as far as children.....

the best thing to do is just be ready.......

a lady friend of ours, had never been to church and has 4 children..... 8 year old boy, a 7 year old girl, and a 6 and 5 year old boy..... this lady was sick, with not just HIV, but with full blown AIDS....

the kids also had never been to church.... one day the 8 year old walks up to mom and says....Mom, you need to take us to church... cause if you dont take us to church then we will all go to hell and it will be your fault ......

(I did not quote the statement, but the statement is acccurate)

the mother asked a few people, and started going to a church that was close to their house, actually the first one that they could come to when they drive from the house....

the first week at church, she bawled when she heard the plan of salvation. the second week, she accepted the Lord as her Savior and Lord. the fruit of her spirit, the fruits of her labors were very evident that she had received the Lord......

several weeks later, during a regularly sked appointment for her AIDS, the status of this visit was the Aids was not found, so further testing was done, and not only the Aids was not found, she was no longer even positive for HIV... the last time I asked about it, she was still totally clean, not just with drugs, but also with the HIV......

what gripped me was the child that had enough guts to tell his mother what lays ahead......

Raise the children in the Lord.....

mike

Wow thats awesome! God is Great! Its testimonies like that strengthen your faith.

[Bold Believer]

Can you imagine what would happen if a heathen's funeral went like this?

"All of you know Joe. Joe cursed like a sailor, had sex with anything that moved, hated anything to do with God and drank like a fish. He treated everyone like garbage, and thought only of himself, unless it had to do with sex. He was a bully. Unfortunately for Joe, God has the last laugh. Joe is now in hell. It's dark like he's never seen darkness before. It's hot like he's never known heat before. The only thing he can see is the Lake of Fore, waiting to claim him on the Last Day. The only thing he can hear is the anguished cries of the other godless around him, and the only thing on his mind is: Why didn't I listen to the preacher?"

I'm sure that would be a hit.

[Celt]

Per God's Word, both paradise and hell are in HEAVEN. The difference is there's a great gulf fixed border between them (Luke 16). Everyone want's to go to heaven, but to which side should be the question.

Luke 23:42-43

42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."

43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."

(KJV)

I've seen even good Christian Bible scholars try to twist that simple statement our Lord Jesus said to the believing malefactor who was crucified with Him.

Obviously, it's easy to tell that I do not subscribe to the 'dead in the ground' doctrines of men. Why should I, when our Lord Jesus told that malefactor that he'd be with Him in Paradise that day (meaning after he'd died on his cross)?

When I've conversed with those on the 'dead in the ground' and 'the dead know nothing' doctrines, one of the quotes I get most often is that of Ecclesiastes 9. In that chapter of Ecclesiastes 9 the righteous and the wicked are being compared against each other, jumping back in forth to each. It means while reading it one must stay focused of how everything said applies, and to which group.

Eccl 9:2-6

2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

Reading that seems to make it easy to apply all that's said in later verses to both groups equally. But if that's to be done, then there would be no such thing as God's Salvation to the righteous.

3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

In the sense that death happens to all, that's right. But what about the righteous even while alive? Look at verse 4 and see which phrase would apply to the righteous, and which phrase would apply to the wicked.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

(KJV)

Do those verses really apply to the righteous of God's people, even the idea of those who hate and envy? If so, then will memory of the righteous perish after they're dead? Do those who sleep in Jesus now never have any more a reward, and the memory OF THEM forgotten?

Notice it doesn't say 'their memory is forgotten' like they're dead in the ground and know nothing, it says "the memory OF them" is no more. What time is that really for per God's Word? Who is that will be forgotten when God's Kingdom comes? Well, who goes into the "lake of fire" after the Milennium? The wicked along with Satan and his hosts. That's the real 'dead' that idea is talking about, not those who sleep in Jesus that the apostle Paul talked about in 1 Thess.4.

Of course those who have died in Christ still have reward coming, and the memory of them is not forgotten. And they definitely DO STILL have a portion FOR EVER of things done under the sun (in God's future Kingdom on earth; even during Christ's Milennium). But the wicked won't.

What about "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion"? How is that hope meant for a living dog? Again, that's referring to the wicked unbeliever that is still alive, for while yet alive there is still hope of conversion to Christ unto eternal Life.

Here is a direct Bible parallel to what I'm talking about with the idea of the 'dead'...

Isa 26:14

14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast Thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

(KJV)

The word "deceased" is the same word for Rephaim per the Hebrew, and is a proper name for the giants of the valley of Rephaim. In the KJV that Hebrew word was mistranslated to "dead" in some passages. This is one of them. Those will not be resurrected, and the memory of them is to perish forever once they are destroyed by God.

Throughout God's Word, there exists a spiritual metaphor about the 'dead'. Jude 1 mentions some who are even "twice dead", definitely pointing to a spiritually dead soul while yet alive on earth that eventually goes to the "lake of fire" for the destruction of the soul afterwards. That means the "second death" of Rev.20. The first death is the death of the flesh, but the "second death" as written, is the death of the soul cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's thousand years reign. The 'dead in the ground' doctrine of man tries to limit the Ecclesiastes 9 scripture to just the idea of the first death, but it's covering the idea of the "second death" also.

Those in Christ Jesus are promised what?...

John 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV)

Those who have died in Christ Jesus should NEVER be compared to those dead of Eccl.9 that have no hope, for those who sleep in Jesus will return with Him when He comes as written. Based on direct Scripture, those are in Paradise once they died in the flesh. And that's where all the saints that have died go. Did the crucified malefactor who believed come into condemnation? Not according to what our Lord Jesus said to him on the cross.

So as far as I'm concerned, the 'dead in the ground' idea is simply another one of the doctrines of men that the devil has tricked many of God's people into believing.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Celt

[OneLight]

Per God's Word, both paradise and hell are in HEAVEN. The difference is there's a great gulf fixed border between them (Luke 16). Everyone want's to go to heaven, but to which side should be the question.

Luke 23:42-43

42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."

43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."

(KJV)

Hades and Paradise are not in heaven, but in the earth.

Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Luke 16:19-31 (New King James Version)

The Rich Man and Lazarus

There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man

[kross]

Often children are told that when you die, you go to Heaven. My whole life I believed that as well, That if I put my faith and trust in Jesus I would go to Heaven, and if any one rejects Christ, they would go to Hell.

I know when Jesus comes for the second time, we will be his people and he will be with us again once and for all , but where?

There are so many diferent points of view on where we will be when. Here is my understanding (which is not shared by some here);

When we die now, we go to heaven.

When the rapture occurs, we will go to heaven. Israel will remain here on earth enjoying peace for 1,000 years as Christians and CHRIST are reaigning in heaven. At the end of the 1,000 years, Satan will raise an army from the rest of the nations of the world. He will give Israel grief for a short period in the great war of Armageddon. Fire will come down from JESUS/heaven and destroy all the people of the earth (minus Israel)

When the earth is made new and the New Jerusalem comes down, we will then live on the new earth.

This is what I have come to understand from my reading of the scriptures. I have debated it back and forth enough to know that hose who do not agree, will never agree. So, it is posted for your consideration.

[irishcowboy]

Can you imagine what would happen if a heathen's funeral went like this?

"All of you know Joe. Joe cursed like a sailor, had sex with anything that moved, hated anything to do with God and drank like a fish. He treated everyone like garbage, and thought only of himself, unless it had to do with sex. He was a bully. Unfortunately for Joe, God has the last laugh. Joe is now in hell. It's dark like he's never seen darkness before. It's hot like he's never known heat before. The only thing he can see is the Lake of Fore, waiting to claim him on the Last Day. The only thing he can hear is the anguished cries of the other godless around him, and the only thing on his mind is: Why didn't I listen to the preacher?"

I'm sure that would be a hit.

would be a bomb at best.... if this was taught more at home, and more at church then there would be less going on that would send people on the fast express train straight to hell.... and there are many that are boarding that train every day

mike