Does Hidden Text Prove Shroud of Turin Real?

[Blien]

I don't think it's real besides...

Mark 8:11-13 (New Living Translation)

Pharisees Demand a Miraculous Sign

11 When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had arrived, they came and started to argue with him. Testing him, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority.

12 When he heard this, he sighed deeply in his spirit and said,

[Guest shiloh357]

I don't think it's real besides...

Mark 8:11-13 (New Living Translation)

Pharisees Demand a Miraculous Sign

11 When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had arrived, they came and started to argue with him. Testing him, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority.

12 When he heard this, he sighed deeply in his spirit and said,

[redwing]

Is the Shroud of Turin real? Who knows for sure? Check out this web site.

http://shroudofturin.wordpress.com/2009/11...g-website-news/

[kross]

Well, this is interesting.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575949,00.html

If the calendar wouldn't have ben changed to measure BC and AD, would this be considered year 16 in the original Jewish or Greek calendar? She stated that she got the date, the year 16 off of the shroud.

[kross]

It is a forgery created during the Middle Ages. It is claimed to be the Mandylion, the burial cloth of Jesus. However, the provenance is in doubt because there is a gap of about two hundred years that cannot be accounted for.

If there is provenance that only leaves out the first 200 years, that would be pretty convincing.

[Botz]

This is because the Jewish burials as far as I can tell were not performed with a single cloth, but with lengths of linen that were wrapped around the body like bandages, and the spices were spread in between them.

True, but keep in mind that Jesus' burial was hastily done as they had to get him in the tomb just before the Sabbath. They did not have time to wrap him up in bandages and separate cloth could have been laid over the face on top of the linen shroud. This was not a typical burial. That is why the women were coming to finish the job after the Sabbath.

I see what you are saying as in Luke 23:55-56. 24:1. Mark 16:1.., we see the ladies bringing spices...in order to 'anoint' Him. There are several references to Joseph of Arimathea bringing a clean linen cloth (singular) eg Matt 27:59 and Mark 15:46. I find the text indicates that He was still buried according to Jewish custom, including wrapping the spices with the strips of cloth, which would have been impossible if they had simply placed a single cloth over Him.

What is possible is that he had help from his mate Nicodemus, who would have wanted things done according to their traditions, and the burial included a quick wrapping of the spices on the L-rds body followed by the shroud...or the shroud could have been first. But then they did prepare a large quantity of spices John 19:39, which would have taken some time to do...so perhaps they did some, and the spices the ladies were bringing on the morning after shabbat, were actually left over from the 100lbs of spices that Nicodemus originally brought over

Another thing that occurs to me is that it would probably have taken rather more time to produce the sort of image found on the cloth, than a mere three days...and this should be testable under similar conditions.

Interesting...the whole time scale and who did what over these few days is sometimes quite difficult to get a handle on. Thanks. Botz

[nikki1]

IMO....I don't believe it has anything to do with Jesus at all.

I don't think it is necessarily a fake, and may well be someones burial shroud, but not the L-rds.

This is because the Jewish burials as far as I can tell were not performed with a single cloth, but with lengths of linen that were wrapped around the body like bandages, and the spices were spread in between them.

Also the Bible records 'wrappings' pleural, and a separate cloth for the face, John 20 vs 6-7 which remained uncovered by the former layers, and therefore could not have produced such an image of the front and back of a person on one piece of cloth...at least not by this traditional form of burial. (see also John 11:44) [the greek seems a little ambiguous and refers to grave clothes]

Those were my initial thoughts too, Botz.

The Empty Tomb is good enough for me! John Chapter 20

Blessings,

Nikki

[MorningGlory]

Carbon dating shows it to be a forgery in the 1980's. A medieval fabrication to draw pilgrims and their cash to Turin.

Nothing but a cloth idol

There are various opinions on this; apparently the carbon dating was done on a repaired area of the cloth. Read the article, amor. It's new information.

[kross]

This is because the Jewish burials as far as I can tell were not performed with a single cloth, but with lengths of linen that were wrapped around the body like bandages, and the spices were spread in between them.

True, but keep in mind that Jesus' burial was hastily done as they had to get him in the tomb just before the Sabbath. They did not have time to wrap him up in bandages and separate cloth could have been laid over the face on top of the linen shroud. This was not a typical burial. That is why the women were coming to finish the job after the Sabbath.

I see what you are saying as in Luke 23:55-56. 24:1. Mark 16:1.., we see the ladies bringing spices...in order to 'anoint' Him. There are several references to Joseph of Arimathea bringing a clean linen cloth (singular) eg Matt 27:59 and Mark 15:46. I find the text indicates that He was still buried according to Jewish custom, including wrapping the spices with the strips of cloth, which would have been impossible if they had simply placed a single cloth over Him.

What is possible is that he had help from his mate Nicodemus, who would have wanted things done according to their traditions, and the burial included a quick wrapping of the spices on the L-rds body followed by the shroud...or the shroud could have been first. But then they did prepare a large quantity of spices John 19:39, which would have taken some time to do...so perhaps they did some, and the spices the ladies were bringing on the morning after shabbat, were actually left over from the 100lbs of spices that Nicodemus originally brought over

Another thing that occurs to me is that it would probably have taken rather more time to produce the sort of image found on the cloth, than a mere three days...and this should be testable under similar conditions.

Interesting...the whole time scale and who did what over these few days is sometimes quite difficult to get a handle on. Thanks. Botz

Part of the idea of the shroud is that it would have been a form of radiation that would have made the image, as when JESUS is resurected there was a flash of bright light or some physical occurance.

[mizzdy]

Part of the idea of the shroud is that it would have been a form of radiation that would have made the image, as when JESUS is resurected there was a flash of bright light or some physical occurance.

Anyone seen this article?

A new video documentary about the Shroud of Turin makes a startling new claim about what some believe to be the burial cloth of Jesus