The Biblical gift of tongues

[ayin jade]

Makes sense. Thanks One.

[OneLight]

I have had my time in these debates, and still find myself drawn to them, but due to how this one is turning I will step out before it starts to turn into name calling, insulting, brethren bashing argument as all the other threads on this subject have before.

Truth is, if you seek, you will find ... if not, you won't. Keep in mind that the gifts are not an issue of salvation.

God Bless and may His peace and love guide your words.

[RebekahDavid]

After reading the responses to this thread, I have had second thoughts about any kind of lengthy post, seeing as the majority of proponents are happy with selecting a few "proof texts" as solid evidence for the continuation of this gift.

Sadly, no one has come forward and explained just where this gift "disappeared" to from the close of the Apostolic age until Agnes Ozman began to speak in other languages at Charles Parham's Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1901. Further, the question must be raised as to how many have REALLY studied the history of the movement aside from the "proof texts" they cite and the words of their favorite teachers. Perhaps if we were to be more "Berean" in our studies we may depend less upon questionable teachers and more upon historical (as well as biblical) revelation.

The issue of speaking in tongues (lest we forget, they were real languages in the biblical sense) has not been a "strengthening" aspect in the church, but has been an incredibly divisive issue due to the unbiblical applications taught by many hyper-Pentecostals, Charismatics, and the outright denial of the gifts of the Spirit by secessionists. The issue is NOT that true tongues took on a physical character, but that they were used in a biblically correct way, primarily to preach the gospel to the unbelieving as at Pentecost.

If interested, take an unbiased look at Charles Parham, Charles Shumway, William Seymour, the Azuza Street Mission, and John Kilpatrick. I could list multiple others...

I use the term "unbiased" as it is easy to leap to the defense of a teaching, doctrine, or teacher when our emotions are running high, but it is much harder to take a fair and open-minded look at things when we may find other truths contrary to those we hold to so strongly.

A much more extensive discussion may be found at my blog, http://www.chief.radicalmanministries.net , search for "A (SOMEWHAT) BRIEF LOOK AT SPEAKING IN TONGUES"

Happy studying!

Blessings,

Unbaised i am i was not taught about the gifts of the Spirit by my pastor. nor as i have stated have i asked for or received this gift. No one has shown where in the Bible it states that the gifts of the Spirit were only applicable to the Apostle's life time. (good thing the fruits of the Spirit are not deemed as only applicable in the Apostle's life time)

love your sister in Christ.

[~candice~]

Sadly, no one has come forward and explained just where this gift "disappeared" to from the close of the Apostolic age until Agnes Ozman began to speak in other languages at Charles Parham's Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1901.

Chief,

This is an interesting statement. How is it possible to back up an assertion that something disappeared? How do you assert disappearance? I acknowledge that proof is impossible here, so how do you assert it with reasonable confidence?

It is entirely possible, and obviously I claim, that tongues continued throughout history but we do not have all instances of it's operation made aware to us.

Gbu,

Andy

[Botz]

I think the Holy Spirit decides what is necessary. and the need for spiritual gifts is the same need as the need then. All Spiritual gifts are used for edification, and only operate out of love. We all need edified.

I do not seek contention here... I merely wish to point out a very important oversight! Each believer did not have a copy of the New Testament the completion of God's Holy Word... if everyone would back up to this truth and re-examine all that is occurring in the infant Church the frailty of Scripture-less foundations as at that time only circulated letters being copied it was a very vulnerable time. Many conclusions have been drawn from interpretations that did not evaluate this most important fact within the contextual basis so important as this... Try it now in your life of witness do not take the Bible with you and go out to testify of God you will in fact experience what they faced however they could not go home and examine the written truth either. I would say The Lord not being a respecter of persons leveled the field with supernatural graces by The Holy Spirit that are no longer required for we have His Word preserved for our use anytime day or night (PRAISE GOD FOR HIS MERCIFUL GIFT!!!)... Love Steven

Lol bro...are you aware just how many people do not have access to the Bible, and how much G-d continues to level the field with supernatural gifting, especially in China. Are you then going to say, well He may work miraculously out in the Boon-docks, but there is no need for all that stuff in the inner-city or amongst educated people who can get all they need from the 'word'.

It is in the 'word' that we get direction, instruction, encouragement, inspiration etc.... but the 'word' is not the 'Spirit'.

[Botz]

Blessings,

Speaking in tongues is not a gift that i have personally asked for or recieved.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

Yo Sis....we are instructed/encouraged/exhorted to desire spiritual gifts, especially for the edification of the Body.

You seldom receive if you don't ask...personally I believe if you seek the Holy Spirit with all your heart, you will be surprised what G-d might do, and tongues and prophesy are just the start of it. The early Believers are recorded numerous times as having a baptism in the Spirit and from this encounter/anointing had a miraculous demonstative manifestation. Seek and you will find. Ask and it will be given to you.

Prayerfully. Botz.

Romans 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

[Botz]

How do you know that the "Living Water" that is flowing from you is a superior language than English? You can't understand it. It could be as primative as 'click' language used by Bushmen in Africa.

Hey ...that's one of my tongues...seriously!

[Botz]

After reading the responses to this thread, I have had second thoughts about any kind of lengthy post, seeing as the majority of proponents are happy with selecting a few "proof texts" as solid evidence for the continuation of this gift.

Sadly, no one has come forward and explained just where this gift "disappeared" to from the close of the Apostolic age until Agnes Ozman began to speak in other languages at Charles Parham's Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1901. Further, the question must be raised as to how many have REALLY studied the history of the movement aside from the "proof texts" they cite and the words of their favorite teachers. Perhaps if we were to be more "Berean" in our studies we may depend less upon questionable teachers and more upon historical (as well as biblical) revelation.

The issue of speaking in tongues (lest we forget, they were real languages in the biblical sense) has not been a "strengthening" aspect in the church, but has been an incredibly divisive issue due to the unbiblical applications taught by many hyper-Pentecostals, Charismatics, and the outright denial of the gifts of the Spirit by secessionists. The issue is NOT that true tongues took on a physical character, but that they were used in a biblically correct way, primarily to preach the gospel to the unbelieving as at Pentecost.

If interested, take an unbiased look at Charles Parham, Charles Shumway, William Seymour, the Azuza Street Mission, and John Kilpatrick. I could list multiple others...

I use the term "unbiased" as it is easy to leap to the defense of a teaching, doctrine, or teacher when our emotions are running high, but it is much harder to take a fair and open-minded look at things when we may find other truths contrary to those we hold to so strongly.

A much more extensive discussion may be found at my blog, http://www.chief.radicalmanministries.net , search for "A (SOMEWHAT) BRIEF LOOK AT SPEAKING IN TONGUES"

Happy studying!

Hi Chief...tried following your link, but it did not work. I have read and studied the pros and cons of spiritual gifts and the origins of Pentecostal Rivival etc and generally am pretty well versed in standard Baptist teaching on the subject.

Sometimes things happen to us from which we have no choice but to work backwards to try and make sense of things...this is often the case in what is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit...in which people have an encounter with G-d that is powerful/emotive/intense/wonderful and is also often accompanied by speaking and receiving the gift of tongues and often prophesing about the glory of G-d.

Many people have no historical teaching on these personal encounters, but are thoroughly convinced that they are entirely and sovereignly of G-d, and are encouraged and empowered in their faith. They also have brief reference to similar experiences that are recorded in Scripture, especially in Acts, which they can now see from a more personal perspective.

Having had a 'touch from G-d' and been given what amounts to a personal prayer language their experience is 'subjective', and varies from person to person...they have not had time to check out if it is really from the L-rd, or to go through endless circular arguments that attempt to graciously deny that what they have experienced is real, or even some sort of diabolic deception....because of the joy of the encounter and the knowledge and understanding that G-d loves them and has ministered to them, often in a life-changing way.

Like anything, gifts can be abused, as demonstrated in the Corinthian Body of Believers, and often gifts are no substitute for strength of character and maturity in the L-rd... but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the vast amount of friends and fellow Believers that I know, who have expeienced the baptism in the Spirit, have been enriched and empowered.

The verse that comes to mind may seem strange, but it is this:-

Matt 19:13 Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said,

[other one]

Bickering aside, I have yet to witness a genuine biblical instance of speaking in tongues. The folks I know who claim to have the gift are more often than not motivated by a childish desire for attention, kinda like the little kid who keeps yelling "Lookit me. Lookit me." I've been lookiting for a long time and have yet to see it.

Are you sure they are doing it for attention? In group or corporate intercessory prayer, we sometimes just get intense.

I'm certain; and, for the record,Jesus is not recorded as having spit in anyone's face. He spit on the ground.

Around the people I hang out around, ones eyes are part of their face.

Mark 8:23

23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

KJV

[nebula]

Which of these are as highly overused as tongues are? Which are so liable to misuse as tongues are?

Anything man puts his hand to has incidences of abuse - even the teaching of theology is rife with abuse.

Tongues is the easiest of the gifts to use, and thus we find it used by many more young Christians than the other gifts.

Plus the fact that tongues is so despised by the Church body at large, those of us who have and exercise the gift find ourselves in defense-mode so much, we find ourselves emphasizing it even more than we would otherwise.