SAVED or ........SAVED then LOST?

[Guest]

Quote: from CWJ on 10:34 pm on April 13, 2002

Hey BlindSeeker,

[CWJ]

OK...I've prayed, meditated, and read the scriptures. I'm ready to post this "new view" I have on Heb10:29.  I'll start by quoting some verses:

John10:36.."Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

John17:19.."And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth."

Heb2:10.."For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings,...(11)...For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:  for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,"

Heb9:13.."For the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:..(14)..How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

Heb10:29..."Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, WHEREWITH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

"Wherewith he was sanctified" is pointing to Jesus, not the apostate. Jesus was also sanctified by His blood.

Heb10:34..."For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, KNOWING in yourselves that YE HAVE in heaven a better and an enduring substance."

They are sure and KNOW, eternal security of the saints. 1John5:13

Heb10:35.."Cast not away therefore you CONFIDENCE, which hath great recompence of reward."

"Confidence"..parrhesia,...all out-spokeness..or to boldly preach(my def.)..publically and frankly

Talking about the Crown of Righteouness, 2Tim4:1-8, a reward for good works, not salvation.

Heb10:36.."For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might recieve the promise."

Patience, enduring temptations....James1:4,12....

Talking about the Crown of Life, promised for reward to the saints whose work deems this reward, not about winning salvation.

Peace and grace to all...Carl...OSAS:biggrin:

[Guest]

Quote: from CWJ on 9:18 pm on April 18, 2002

OK...I've prayed, meditated, and read the scriptures. I'm ready to post this "new view" I have on Heb10:29 . . .

Talking about the Crown of Life, promised for reward to the saints whose work deems this reward, not about winning salvation.

Peace and grace to all...Carl...OSAS:biggrin:

(Please, everyone note that I have abbreviated Carl's last post for the sake of brevity. See above for it's entirety - BlindSeeker)

The "Crown of Life" is synonymous with the "Crown of Righteousness," and unless we inherit an extra head as well, we can but wear one Crown.

You state "works deems this reward" and it's "not about winning salvation."

Such a comment leads me to believe these/this Crown is won by works. But the scriptures still state that the crown "is laid up for me" and does not say it is won, but given by Christ and received by us.

II Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the Righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but UNTO ALL THEM also that love His appearing.

The Crown of Righteousness of given because of righteousness, and righteousness begets life.

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

I Cor. 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible[crown].

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

I Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

II Tim 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

I like verse 6, "The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits." I personaaly call it the "Law of the Harvest." Basically it goes this way, The husbandman must first labor to  till the ground  and plant the seed if he is to partake of the fruits. And again, "being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." I was please when I later read what Adam Clarke had stated.

Adam Clarke commented on it this way,

• Verse 6.   The husbandman that laboureth -  That is: The husbandman must first till his ground before he can expect a crop; and he must till it according to the proper rules of agriculture, else he cannot have a crop.  The combatant must fight and conquer, and fight according to the laws of the agones, before he can be crowned; so the Christian minister must labour in the spiritual vineyard, and labour too under the eye and according to the direction of his Master, before he can expect that crown of righteousness that fadeth not away.
  

Then again Carl, there is also that third Crown . . .

I Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a CROWN OF GLORY that fadeth not away.

I avoided the temptation of joking about having to have three heads for all these crowns . . . I just couldn't resist mentioning it though . . .

At peace with the same old view, and hopefully always at peace with you my friend and brother, Carl.

BlindSeeker

PS - By the way, did you check out that web site?

[CWJ]

That was funny about the three heads...actually I guess you should say five,HA!

That website will be a good reference point!

I guess now I will have to study on the way the crowns are "won" or obtained.....hehehe...so much to learn...and an eternity to do so!

Peace as always...Carl...OSAS:biggrin:

[traveller]

Hey, do you two plan on KEEPING your crowns?

[CWJ]

I will cast them before His throne!

[Guest]

Amen, for You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for You created all things, and by Your will they existed and were created.

[angels4u]

 SAVED or ........SAVED then LOST?

Praise God that 1 sacrifice was enough!!

[jeremiah7]

Isn

[wordsower]

I never believed in once saved always saved until very recently.  I grew up in "church" but I didn't know Jesus.  I thought once saved always saved meant you could do whatever you wanted and be saved.  Of course that sounds ridiculous!

John 10:26-29 says:  But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep...My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me.  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.  My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of my hand.

Now, when I was not His sheep, I had no conviction of anything in my life except the heresies I was taught as a child.  I didn't walk in love, I didn't act like a christian except for one day a week, I loved to watch horror movies, party at the clubs, drink, and act like the rest of the world.

From the moment I got saved, the Holy Spirit entered into my life and I honestly don't WANT to do any of those things.

I KNOW that if I mess up and sin, God is not giving up on me and taking my salvation away.  I am positive that I am saved!  If I sin and get into a car wreck before I get a chance to ask for forgiveness, I know I'm still going to heaven.

It seems like, since we have free choice, we could make a decision to give our salvation back, but I can't imagine ever wanting to do that.  Jesus said, If they went out from us, they were not with us to begin with, that has to do with those like Judas, who appear to be christians but have their own agenda or selfish purposes for being christian.

Those who think they can lose their salvation, put your trust in Him and He will faithfully complete the good work which He has started in you!