Not a bad mega church

[other one]

Sorry i dont mean to rain on your parade, but i just dont see what your seeing. It looks good on the outside, but im not impressed by a church that focuses more on men than God.

Heres some of his words.

"we CATER for busy people", "the services are only one hour so people DONT HAVE to be in church all day"

If we look for holiness and not just if people are happy, we will not be taken in by the glitz and glamour. Even if we do miracles(build mega churches) and cast out demons in Jesus name, but are "workers of iniquity"(going our own way), Jesus says "depart from me i never knew you".

Im not against mega churches if they are run by the Holy Spirit, and those in leadership are not just clever people. Anything the world can duplicate is not necessarily from God, and filling large buildings with people is easy if you cater for the flesh.

I find your post to be a bit puzzling and just a bit disturbing. the part about catering for busy people and saying that the services are only one hour so the people don't have to be there all day seems a bit different from what I heard in the video. It appears to me to be saying that they have so many people coming to church that they have to have three different services and the services are an hour so that the next group of people can come in.. If it's like my son in law's church it takes some time to get four thousand people out of a building and another four thousand in and seated.....

And defining workers of iniquity as being people going thier way seems a bit short sighted to me peraonally.

I listened to some of their video's and if I'm ever in the area on sunday, I might just visit myself.

[Isaiah 6:8]

.... I'm not against mega churches if they are run by the Holy Spirit....

Amen!

Check Out Video On Demand Non Negotiable

Pastor Starts Out Sounding A Little Like He's Spent A Few Days On Our Dear Worthy Boards :24:

Yep - he musta been here at some time or another.

I agree. He is being serious, but I am laughing hardly able to here him over myself, cuz it sounds like he did spend time here!

[JCISGD]

And defining workers of iniquity as being people going thier way seems a bit short sighted to me peraonally.

I listened to some of their video's and if I'm ever in the area on sunday, I might just visit myself.

I wasnt saying they were workers of iniquity, but pointing out that numbers,miracles and even sucess do not mean they are following Christ. I have been in churches that have multiple sevices, so i understand what theyre trying to do but when Uzziah put his hand to steady the Ark and try to help God so to speak, God struck him dead. The OT gives us many foreshadows of things to come, and when men try to build the church from human wisdom, they deny the power of God and their works are hay, wood and stuble.

I dont know them and im not judging them, i just dont see anything that excites me. I quoted the mans words, he said they were catering for busy people. Did the Apostles even suggest we fit God around our busy schedules?

If there are too many people to accomodate in one service, perhaps they might send them to plant another church in a georaphic where souls abound. IMO the trouble with time constraint run churches is they shut out the Holy Spirits leading, "sorry God but were out of time, must rush" What is the focus of these churches if they can predetermine what God wants to do?

[nebula]

I dont know them and im not judging them, i just dont see anything that excites me.

First of all, this was the secular news reporting on a Christian assembly. Do you really believe they would know how to present the move of God amidst the people?

I quoted the mans words, he said they were catering for busy people.

I listened to it again. I did not hear him saying anything about catering for busy people. Are you sure you heard right?

If there are too many people to accomodate in one service, perhaps they might send them to plant another church in a georaphic where souls abound.

What if the Lord has not lead anyone to do so?

You need to understand two things.

One is that large congregations can provide ministry opportunities, services, outreaches, etc. that small, more personal congregations never could.

Second, the US isn't like New Zealand. I'm not sure what you mean by "a geographic where souls abound." Souls abound where they are located (Population in July 2007: 19,407).

IMO the trouble with time constraint run churches is they shut out the Holy Spirits leading, "sorry God but were out of time, must rush" What is the focus of these churches if they can predetermine what God wants to do?

I'm not a fan of the programmed service, either. I'm just saying that for what it is - a mega church with the drawbacks that come with mega churches - there's a lot to be said for how they are conducting themselves.

And the message the pastor preached was impressive (compare to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton).

[JCISGD]

I dont know them and im not judging them, i just dont see anything that excites me.

First of all, this was the secular news reporting on a Christian assembly. Do you really believe they would know how to present the move of God amidst the people?

I quoted the mans words, he said they were catering for busy people.

I listened to it again. I did not hear him saying anything about catering for busy people. Are you sure you heard right?

If there are too many people to accomodate in one service, perhaps they might send them to plant another church in a georaphic where souls abound.

What if the Lord has not lead anyone to do so?

You need to understand two things.

One is that large congregations can provide ministry opportunities, services, outreaches, etc. that small, more personal congregations never could.

Second, the US isn't like New Zealand. I'm not sure what you mean by "a geographic where souls abound." Souls abound where they are located (Population in July 2007: 19,407).

IMO the trouble with time constraint run churches is they shut out the Holy Spirits leading, "sorry God but were out of time, must rush" What is the focus of these churches if they can predetermine what God wants to do?

I'm not a fan of the programmed service, either. I'm just saying that for what it is - a mega church with the drawbacks that come with mega churches - there's a lot to be said for how they are conducting themselves.

And the message the pastor preached was impressive (compare to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton).

Sorry Neb, I had clicked onto the part two clip, and was quoting from there. But in part one they also say they spend big money to bringin big names to entertain the children and excite the adults. Like i said ive been apart of big churches but they dont excite me when the focus is on programes and entertainment.

New Zealand might be little but so is Israel and the early churches moved by the Holy Spirit and not excitement/entertainment based programmes. I have travelled to churches and Australia, Zambia, London, Paris, Belgium, Toronto, LA, NY, Washington and a 15,000 people crusade in Singapore, so im not entirely ignorant of what goes on in different places. Why do you assume that it is I who need to understand your way of thinking?

Surely it is better for folks to have a church in their neighbour hood and not travel to mega churches for an hour of hype. I dont expect you to agree with me, im just adding my opinion based on what ive seen and been through in 20 yrs of travelling the world and reading many christian books on churches and their roots, fruits and boots.

Perhaps if you were fellowshipping there i could understand your insistance on it being so great, but because neither of us does i would think my opinion carries as much possibility of being right as yours? Why would i compare anyone to Jessie Jackson or AL Sharpton? The pastor was impressive because he wasnt bad?

I honestly dont think there are drawbacks to mega churches run by the Holy Spirit, I just dont see how this type of mega church with its one hour time slots and guest speakers/entertainers resembles biblical christianity.

[nebula]

Sorry Neb, I had clicked onto the part two clip, and was quoting from there. But in part one they also say they spend big money to bringin big names to entertain the children and excite the adults. Like i said ive been apart of big churches but they dont excite me when the focus is on programes and entertainment.

Well, like I said, this was a secular news source presenting the church. You need to take the perspectives presented with a grain of salt.

I bet you anything a Christian news source would paint a completely different picture.

New Zealand might be little but so is Israel and the early churches moved by the Holy Spirit and not excitement/entertainment based programmes. I have travelled to churches and Australia, Zambia, London, Paris, Belgium, Toronto, LA, NY, Washington and a 15,000 people crusade in Singapore, so im not entirely ignorant of what goes on in different places. Why do you assume that it is I who need to understand your way of thinking?

I didn't say my way of thinking.

What you do not understand is the culture and the environment.

Surely it is better for folks to have a church in their neighbour hood and not travel to mega churches for an hour of hype.

That would assume every neighborhood has a man who is called to be a pastor, would it not?

There are other reasons I could bring up as to why this proposal works better on paper than in practice.

I dont expect you to agree with me, im just adding my opinion based on what ive seen and been through in 20 yrs of travelling the world and reading many christian books on churches and their roots, fruits and boots.

But you are not seeing the whole story, either.

Perhaps if you were fellowshipping there i could understand your insistance on it being so great, but because neither of us does i would think my opinion carries as much possibility of being right as yours?

Why would i compare anyone to Jessie Jackson or AL Sharpton?

This is an aspect of what I meant about what you don't understand about how the way things are over here.

The pastor was impressive because he wasnt bad?

"Not bad" is an expression that one uses when they are surprisingly pleased.

I honestly dont think there are drawbacks to mega churches run by the Holy Spirit, I just dont see how this type of mega church with its one hour time slots and guest speakers/entertainers resembles biblical christianity.

I have something that you do not - a friend who belongs to this church who posted the video on Facebook. He and I used to belong to the same church. From what I know of him, I can trust his judgment.

When I asked him what he would say in response to your objections, he gave a response that indicated he considered the objection to be expressive of someone who made a judgment without really knowing the church.

[Matthitjah]

I dont know them and im not judging them, i just dont see anything that excites me.

First of all, this was the secular news reporting on a Christian assembly. Do you really believe they would know how to present the move of God amidst the people?

I quoted the mans words, he said they were catering for busy people.

I listened to it again. I did not hear him saying anything about catering for busy people. Are you sure you heard right?

If there are too many people to accomodate in one service, perhaps they might send them to plant another church in a georaphic where souls abound.

What if the Lord has not lead anyone to do so?

You need to understand two things.

One is that large congregations can provide ministry opportunities, services, outreaches, etc. that small, more personal congregations never could.

Second, the US isn't like New Zealand. I'm not sure what you mean by "a geographic where souls abound." Souls abound where they are located (Population in July 2007: 19,407).

IMO the trouble with time constraint run churches is they shut out the Holy Spirits leading, "sorry God but were out of time, must rush" What is the focus of these churches if they can predetermine what God wants to do?

I'm not a fan of the programmed service, either. I'm just saying that for what it is - a mega church with the drawbacks that come with mega churches - there's a lot to be said for how they are conducting themselves.

And the message the pastor preached was impressive (compare to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton).

Sorry Neb, I had clicked onto the part two clip, and was quoting from there. But in part one they also say they spend big money to bringin big names to entertain the children and excite the adults. Like i said ive been apart of big churches but they dont excite me when the focus is on programes and entertainment.

New Zealand might be little but so is Israel and the early churches moved by the Holy Spirit and not excitement/entertainment based programmes. I have travelled to churches and Australia, Zambia, London, Paris, Belgium, Toronto, LA, NY, Washington and a 15,000 people crusade in Singapore, so im not entirely ignorant of what goes on in different places. Why do you assume that it is I who need to understand your way of thinking?

Surely it is better for folks to have a church in their neighbour hood and not travel to mega churches for an hour of hype. I dont expect you to agree with me, im just adding my opinion based on what ive seen and been through in 20 yrs of travelling the world and reading many christian books on churches and their roots, fruits and boots.

Perhaps if you were fellowshipping there i could understand your insistance on it being so great, but because neither of us does i would think my opinion carries as much possibility of being right as yours? Why would i compare anyone to Jessie Jackson or AL Sharpton? The pastor was impressive because he wasnt bad?

I honestly dont think there are drawbacks to mega churches run by the Holy Spirit, I just dont see how this type of mega church with its one hour time slots and guest speakers/entertainers resembles biblical christianity.

Brother,

Do you believe that Jesus might have something to say to the local congregation that you speak of that is quite small and not necessarily immersed in the culture? Maybe they aren't promoting any Outreach whatsoever? I've seen quite a few Churches like this around here as well. Yet they are both under Grace and only Christ can remove their Lamp.

By the way, both Neb and I live here in MD and understand the dynamic of the culture that this Church is in better than most. Neb is speaking of a cultural mentality that is peculiar to the black man in the local area. From what I see this Pastor and Mega Church are stepping into it and Teaching God's principles over the cultural mentality and IMO that factor is way underserved here around the D.C. Metropolitan area.

The honest way to approach the situation and to Judge is to measure according to God's Word. When we Judge we are to Judge righteously. The only righteous measure is God's Word.

Jesus said this;

Lu 9:49

And John answered and said, Teacher, we saw one casting out demons in your name; and we forbade him, because he follows not with us.

Lu 9:50

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Paul said this;

Php 1:15

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

Php 1:16

The one preach Christ out of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

Php 1:17

But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel.

Php 1:18

What then? only that, every way, whether in pretense, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

I don't personally know the Church or the Pastor. Howevere, I do rejoice as Christ is being preached.

Peace,

Dave

[Fez]

And defining workers of iniquity as being people going thier way seems a bit short sighted to me peraonally.

I listened to some of their video's and if I'm ever in the area on sunday, I might just visit myself.

I wasnt saying they were workers of iniquity, but pointing out that numbers,miracles and even sucess do not mean they are following Christ. I have been in churches that have multiple sevices, so i understand what theyre trying to do but when Uzziah put his hand to steady the Ark and try to help God so to speak, God struck him dead. The OT gives us many foreshadows of things to come, and when men try to build the church from human wisdom, they deny the power of God and their works are hay, wood and stuble.

I dont know them and im not judging them, i just dont see anything that excites me. I quoted the mans words, he said they were catering for busy people. Did the Apostles even suggest we fit God around our busy schedules?

If there are too many people to accomodate in one service, perhaps they might send them to plant another church in a georaphic where souls abound. IMO the trouble with time constraint run churches is they shut out the Holy Spirits leading, "sorry God but were out of time, must rush" What is the focus of these churches if they can predetermine what God wants to do?

Uzziah put his hand to steady the Ark and try to help God so to speak, God struck him dead.

Just a small correction it was Uzzah one of the sons of son of Abinadab that was struck dead, not King Uzziah.

Uzziah was the King who burned incense in the temple and was struck down by leprosy.

2Ch 26:1 And all the people of Judah took Uzziah, who was sixteen years old, and made him king instead of his father Amaziah.

2Ch 26:19 Then Uzziah was angry. Now he had a censer in his hand to burn incense, and when he became angry with the priests, leprosy broke out on his forehead in the presence of the priests in the house of the LORD, by the altar of incense.

1Sa 7:1 And the men of Kiriath-jearim came and took up the ark of the LORD and brought it to the house of Abinadab on the hill. And they consecrated his son Eleazar to have charge of the ark of the LORD.

Eleazar treated the Ark as Holy, and it probable that having had it in their possession so long that Uzzah, one of Abinadab’s other sons, showed “familiarity” with the Holy Ark, and therefore God, and it was for this reason he was struck dead, not for trying to help.

Just my two cents, with a little help from South's bible knowledge (we were talking about the subject of familiarity just the other day)

[JCISGD]

Sorry Neb and Matti, maybe i took issue over a few words and bypassed the intent of the topic.

But you got your opinion and ive got mine, and telling me im wrong doesnt prove anything. When the preaching produces deep repentance and ensuing wide spread revival then i will sing halleluja!

Thanks for the correction Fez, i was lazy and didnt get the spelling right. It was Uzzah i had in mind.

God bless.

[Matthitjah]

Sorry Neb and Matti, maybe i took issue over a few words and bypassed the intent of the topic.

But you got your opinion and ive got mine, and telling me im wrong doesnt prove anything. When the preaching produces deep repentance and ensuing wide spread revival then i will sing halleluja!

Thanks for the correction Fez, i was lazy and didnt get the spelling right. It was Uzzah i had in mind.

God bless.

Brother,

I'm glad we could have the discussion but I'm sorry that you haven't answered my latest post. I actually strive to make my point based not upon my opinon but rather what Scripture has to say.

I've found that my opinion means nothing in Light of the Word.

Peace,

Dave