Hebew mind vs. Greek mind

[JCISGD]

Sure those with Greek mindset and culture would continue in darkness except they be born again, but Christians do not keep their culture or mindset.

Hey -

I need you to explain your reasoning here.

How is your mindset different from the Greek mindset and from the Hebrew mindset?

And what do you mean by losing one's culture? Culture can be dress, music style (not lyrics, but the instrumentation and melody and such), mannerisms, expressions, accent, daily routines, entertainment options, etc.

What culture did you lose when you came to Christ?

If i have the mind of Christ, i no longer believe in superstition, mythical beings, horoscopes, or idolising of phylosophy, education or materalism, and i no longer think i can meet Gods standards by sacrifices and being good like the rich young ruler.

We lose anything in our culture that is held for reasons of vanity, pride, rebellion, or are unloving. I come from a culture of drunkeness and womanising, nationalism and the blood sports of rugby and boxing. My parents were agnostic/humanist but even if they were born again christian, i would be sining to accept anything they taught that Christ opposed.

[Fraught]

Ditto to losing my culture when I came to Christ. I include many of the above and add losing the culture of striving for material success and the coveting of all the latest and best of everything in order to feel secure in my standing with others of my society.

[Matthitjah]

JCISGD,

Im not sure how anyone can make the leap that the mind of Christ, the creator of all life and peoples, is Hebrew?

Jesus Christ was and is a practicing Jew. Some even called Him Rabboni.

peace,

Dave

I have to disagee in the light that he proved He was not subject to the seventh day sabbath by picking food or the Mosaic law by not washing His hands.

When He met the two disciples on the road after His ressurection they did not recognise Him, He had taken another form.

Im not boasting of anything or disdaining of Gods plans for Israel. I love the Jews too, but heaven will be populated with Christ lovers. We wont be carbon copies of any one culture.

I dont think the mind that concieved of and created all things was Jewish, even though He chose to be born in a nation He called out of the nations. Remember He was God for all eternity before He became a man, is He now seated on the throne wearing Jewish clothes and speaking hebrew?

Love ya brother fez.

I had a thought about this last evening after I posted and it was this. When a Jew get's Saved, does he/she cease to be a Jew?

I will agree that we are a Body made up of many Nationalities. However, our Religion and Faith are distinctly flavored by Judaism and we have a Jewish God/man, High Priest, Prophet, and King who practiced Judaism the way it was meant to be practiced, from the heart.

This is what the OP is talking about. That is the Greek mindset that brother Botz responded to. We can't force a Jewish Messiah into a Greek role model. We can't fashion God into our image. He chose how He wanted to manifest Himself, His Glory, and His Worship. I believe that if we deny this we make the same mistake that the Church has been making for centuries and that is to thrust Him into a box. However, you can't thrust a Wild and Untame Lion into a box.

Peace,

Dave

[Matthitjah]

Ditto to losing my culture when I came to Christ. I include many of the above and add losing the culture of striving for material success and the coveting of all the latest and best of everything in order to feel secure in my standing with others of my society.

Do you still wear Blue Jeans and sing the National Anthem?

[Matthitjah]

I know Persian Christians who are still distinctly Persian. They still speak Farsi, they still eat Persian food, they still look at the world through a Persian/Eastern perspective. Is that wrong?

By the way, they're beautiful people.

[Guest yod]

The division between "mindsets" doesn't really explain the difference between greco-christianity and biblical faith. It goes much deeper than that. I used to think this was the best way to explain it, but no more. The problem isn't a greek mindset vs hebraic mindset.....it's a greek spirit versus the spirit of the sons of Zion.

One can be 100% hebrew and have a greek spirit, just like one can be 100% greek and have the spirit of the sons of Zion. The greek spirit in the western church is the foundation of almost all error historically, even up to today. The greek spirit uses theology (both christian and jewish) to redefine God's Word into something that can be manipulated in order to control others. It places man as the center of wisdom and judges God by human standards of intellect.

Most western (greco) christians have an image of the Father and Son that is closer to Zeus and Perseus than YHVH and Yeshua. They see a different god in the Old Testament than in the Newer Covenant, though biblically there isn't even a shadow of difference between them. This was the error of the first person called "heretic" (Marcion) yet through the greek spirit, this view continues to be perpetrated upon the saints through greco-theological fiat.

one very brief example: The word translated as "faith" simply means "strong trust". It has little to do with whether one "thinks" correctly but rather in how they respond to the Word of the Lord. Believing a list of christian principles does not necessarily make one "faithful"

Abraham trusted God. This is how everyone who is saved will be saved and it has always been that and no other way

He went to a land that God would show him step by obedient step. The greek spirit wants to know the results before it will decide whether to obey. It wants to measure and define God before it will trust.

At least 80-90% of churches operate this way.

[nebula]

Sure those with Greek mindset and culture would continue in darkness except they be born again, but Christians do not keep their culture or mindset.

Hey -

I need you to explain your reasoning here.

How is your mindset different from the Greek mindset and from the Hebrew mindset?

And what do you mean by losing one's culture? Culture can be dress, music style (not lyrics, but the instrumentation and melody and such), mannerisms, expressions, accent, daily routines, entertainment options, etc.

What culture did you lose when you came to Christ?

If i have the mind of Christ, i no longer believe in superstition, mythical beings, horoscopes, or idolising of phylosophy, education or materalism, and i no longer think i can meet Gods standards by sacrifices and being good like the rich young ruler.

We lose anything in our culture that is held for reasons of vanity, pride, rebellion, or are unloving. I come from a culture of drunkeness and womanising, nationalism and the blood sports of rugby and boxing. My parents were agnostic/humanist but even if they were born again christian, i would be sining to accept anything they taught that Christ opposed.

OK, but I am still not understanding.

How does this relate to whether you have a Greek (Hellenistic) mindset when reading Scripture vs a Hebrew mindset vs. something new entirely?

And how is this new mindset (if this is your claim) different from Hellenistic (logic and reasoning, studying the Scriptures for what to believe) or Hebrew (learning through stories, studying Scripture for how to live)?

[Guest shiloh357]

I often see people talking about the different mindsets, there is a huge difference in the two and how it applies to what we read in scriptures, at least I see it that way and many others as well. I thought these little 'lessons' might help some see the differences. I already asked a mod if posting this was ok and got the a'ok.

I checked the site you referenced. This matter seems to be pitting Hebrew mindset against Greek mindset, and it is based on the Hebrew writers. I don't yet know what the originator of this issue is concluding, but I surely think the Holy Scripture does not set forth a Hebrew mindset. God used the Apostles to set forth the hope of Israel in their Messiah, the end of the Israelite (Jews) religion, and what the new testament is in the formation of the church. Both Israelites and Gentiles are free to come into the "household of faith", known as the universal assembly of God (the Church). The Apostles had a good perspective of God's dealing with man, knowing the Old Testament and Israel's religion, and could now see the hope of the whole world in Jesus Christ. They could speak to Israel in showing them the truth of it all, and also show how all mankind can be saved (not by the "Jew's religion") but by the new life in Christ. I hope the author of this premise is not proposing that the church is an extension of the Israelite relgion, which it is not.

- 1 Watchman

Actually, the church, as we know and experience it as a separate institution from Israel, is a post-biblical concept. The NT teaches about the Kingdom of God into which Gentiles are grafted in. The entire Bible is written from an hebraic frame of reference. This can be seen right down to uniqueness of hebraic grammar and syntax. The NT does not introduce anything new that was not already presented in the OT. In fact, the NT is written in the terminology of the OT which is entirely hebraic in its mindset. The NT was written by Jews who lived and thought like Jews and who were trying communicate hebraic theology through a foreign language (Greek). The entire Bible is a Jewish book and unfortunately throughout the years, the original gospel that was preached by those first Jewish believers was hijacked by a few church leaders and stood on its head.

[Botz]

Actually, the church, as we know and experience it as a separate institution from Israel, is a post-biblical concept. The NT teaches about the Kingdom of God into which Gentiles are grafted in. The entire Bible is written from an hebraic frame of reference. This can be seen right down to uniqueness of hebraic grammar and syntax. The NT does not introduce anything new that was not already presented in the OT. In fact, the NT is written in the terminology of the OT which is entirely hebraic in its mindset. The NT was written by Jews who lived and thought like Jews and who were trying communicate hebraic theology through a foreign language (Greek). The entire Bible is a Jewish book and unfortunately throughout the years, the original gospel that was preached by those first Jewish believers was hijacked by a few church leaders and stood on its head.

I am in complete agreement with what you say here Shiloh

The thing I do not understand, is why so many Believer's are astonishingly resistant to these facts, and attempt at all costs to shore up their lack of understanding by clinging to practices and teachings that developed in the mind of man...they prefer to maintain a non-Jewish context for traditions and teachings as though by doing so they are being faithful, remaining true....whereas what we should be doing is throwing out all the things we have accumulated over the centuries that have separated us from the simplicity of the Gospel, and rediscovering for ourselves all the unmistakeable Jewish elements.

[lekh l'kha]

Sure those with Greek mindset and culture would continue in darkness except they be born again, but Christians do not keep their culture or mindset.

Hey -

I need you to explain your reasoning here.

How is your mindset different from the Greek mindset and from the Hebrew mindset?

And what do you mean by losing one's culture? Culture can be dress, music style (not lyrics, but the instrumentation and melody and such), mannerisms, expressions, accent, daily routines, entertainment options, etc.

What culture did you lose when you came to Christ?

If i have the mind of Christ, i no longer believe in superstition, mythical beings, horoscopes, or idolising of phylosophy, education or materalism, and i no longer think i can meet Gods standards by sacrifices and being good like the rich young ruler.

We lose anything in our culture that is held for reasons of vanity, pride, rebellion, or are unloving. I come from a culture of drunkeness and womanising, nationalism and the blood sports of rugby and boxing. My parents were agnostic/humanist but even if they were born again christian, i would be sining to accept anything they taught that Christ opposed.

OK, but I am still not understanding.

How does this relate to whether you have a Greek (Hellenistic) mindset when reading Scripture vs a Hebrew mindset vs. something new entirely?

And how is this new mindset (if this is your claim) different from Hellenistic (logic and reasoning, studying the Scriptures for what to believe) or Hebrew (learning through stories, studying Scripture for how to live)?

I'm pretty sure that JCISGD is like the rest of us and also takes it to heart when he reads, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Rom 12:2).

There's an element of false accusation of our brothers and sisters in Christ in this whole "Greek mindset vs Hebrew mindset" thing. The principle is understandable but very basic: if you want to understand the New Testament properly, take the context into account, which includes what the Jews understood and understand by various phrases and references to various things.

But there is an element of "I'm bigger and better and more spiritual and Godly than you because I have a Hebrew mindset and you have a Greek mindset" in this whole trashy debate.

Let's develop a Christ-like mindset. Paul called his Jewish brethren Peter a hypocrite.

Go figure.